Caanon04 Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 I know at 'ard boyz the questions about Librarian Dreads were answered with regards to wargear. I was wondering as I build my HG were the questions about the blood champion and noviate taking wargear answered there as well? I did not attend 'ard boyz and I haven't heard anything on the subject as of this point. Thanks, Caanon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 No upgrades In my books thats how I will run them until it says otherwise because they stop being HG and become completly new things and get wargear to rep this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingareth Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Novitiate may never take wargear, it's still up in the air about the Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Champ is not an Honor Guard, therefore he can't take Honor Guard upgrades. It might be legal to take upgrades then become the champ, but I'm always leery of having a situation where the order you take upgrades matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookielips Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 neither can take upgrades. codex says HG, they aren't standard HG. sorreh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caanon04 Posted May 30, 2010 Author Share Posted May 30, 2010 I am aware of what the instance in the Codex states. But there are previous situations where upgrade order matters. Like in the Space Marine HG and the Shoota Boy nobz. So, my question is does anyone have a STIPULATED judgement such as the word of a judge at 'ard boyz or things of that nature not personal opinion because there are two camps on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I am aware of what the instance in the Codex states. But there are previous situations where upgrade order matters. Like in the Space Marine HG and the Shoota Boy nobz. So, my question is does anyone have a STIPULATED judgement such as the word of a judge at 'ard boyz or things of that nature not personal opinion because there are two camps on this issue. Why would a judge at 'ard boyz be a good choice? I bet if the issue came up at 'ard boyz, there would have been different locales giving different rulings on it. This might be one that needs a FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caanon04 Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 The reason I was looking for an opinion of a judge at 'ard boyz is that 'ard boyz is a GW sanctioned event. Therefore if a judge there gives you the go ahead on this issue then that is good enough for me to use that judgement until we get a FAQ. I just don't want to go to my lgs and be like yea this is totally cool, without some sort of base to stand on. Thanks, Caanon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menos Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 (My Own Opionion follows) Seeing as taking a Blood Champion is the FIRST choice you have in the HG box, I would say even if you are trying to say its an "order mattering" subject then he's first a BChamp, then he can't take anything else. So no. Blood Champs and Sanguinarian Novitiate can not take further upgrades. Another question to you: Why do you need them to have upgrades in the first place? Are 3 Thunderer Hammerers, 3 Meltaguns, 3 Storm Shields, 1 Power Sword (with Combat Shield) FNP, FC, Chapter Banner, and Jump Packs not enough?! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 The reason I was looking for an opinion of a judge at 'ard boyz is that 'ard boyz is a GW sanctioned event. Therefore if a judge there gives you the go ahead on this issue then that is good enough for me to use that judgement until we get a FAQ. I just don't want to go to my lgs and be like yea this is totally cool, without some sort of base to stand on. Thanks, Caanon Most judges are everyday gamers like you and me with their own rules interpretations. Unless it's in the rules or an FAQ, it's just that, one interpretation. Citing a single judges' ruling at a single tournament really doesn't mean much. I certainly couldn't walk into my lgs with that as my source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Novit can't. Champion can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Novit can't. Champion can. Do you have something to back that up? I ask because I looked closely at how upgraded models are worded and those that can be upgraded in some way (like terminator armor for captains) have very clear language, which is why I think the champ, sang nov., and lib furioso cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingareth Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 The Ork FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Yup. The veteran doesn't replace his equipment when he upgrades, he gains some though. You can technically buy him equipment, then upgrade him. The Novit isn't a veteran. There's nothing stating he can change his equipment. The Furioso Libby is a bit different. I think the RAI is that he can change equipment, but RAW is murky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I still say they don't since he hands his gear back since he becomes the Blood Champ as part of the HG not a HG. And no the ork FAQ has no sway with us Due to we are not orks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Does the entry for options state in regards to veterans or Honorguard? If it states veterans then only they and the upgraded champion can take these options. 0b :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Isn't the wording in C:SM Honour Guard has options "any model" which is much different than ours, but the Command Squad says "any Veteran" which is similar to how the BA codex refers to "Honour Guard." To me, this language does not include the champion. It seems the language in the Ork book is different, and either way, probably shouldn't apply. No similar question was addressed in the C:SM FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I just checked the rules and the options state Honorguard not veterans. Both the champion & novitiate are both Honorguard, just like a veteran sergeant in an assault squad is still an assault Marine. The entry for command squad in Codex Space Marines states that veterans can take the options. Huge difference. 0b :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Honour Guard replaces Veterans in our codex. Honour Guard have a separate statline, along with Blood Champion and Sanguinary Novitiate. The equipment replacements specify that "One Honour Guard...Any Honour Guard." It's referring to the model type, otherwise it would say "One model in the Honour Guard...Any model in the Honour Guard." The Honour Guard that becomes a Blood Champion can have the equipment that any Honour Guard can have, because he becomes a BC by buying the power sword and combat shield. There's nothing that says he loses his previous equipment, otherwise he wouldn't have a ranged weapon (pistol or bolter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I don't agree with you on this one as BA have access to many different veteran units - terminators, Sanguniary Guard, Vanguard... You know the drill. 0b :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm referring strictly to correlation between C:SM's Command Squad and C:BA's Honour Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Our codex lists Honorguard under the entry for the unit Honorguard as being able to take options. Command squad lists veterans as being able to take options under the Space Marine Command Squad unit. Our HG are the equivalent of Space Marine command squads not Space Marine Honor Guard. 0b :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Command squad lists veterans as being able to take options under the Space Marine Command Squad unit. Our HG are the equivalent of Space Marine command squads not Space Marine Honor Guard. 0b :D I don't think I said anything to the contrary of this. However, our codex muddies the issue a bit by naming both the unit "Honour Guard" and our version of Command Squad veterans "Honour Guard." I'm saying that, for equipment, only the Honour Guard model type (that's the Honour Guard statline models within the Honour Guard) can utilize the equipment. Sanguinary Novitiates cannot, because while they're in the Honour Guard (unit) they aren't Honour Guard (model/statline type). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Command squad lists veterans as being able to take options under the Space Marine Command Squad unit. Our HG are the equivalent of Space Marine command squads not Space Marine Honor Guard. 0b ;) I don't think I said anything to the contrary of this. However, our codex muddies the issue a bit by naming both the unit "Honour Guard" and our version of Command Squad veterans "Honour Guard." I'm saying that, for equipment, only the Honour Guard model type (that's the Honour Guard statline models within the Honour Guard) can utilize the equipment. Sanguinary Novitiates cannot, because while they're in the Honour Guard (unit) they aren't Honour Guard (model/statline type). So you'd agree that a Blood Champion cannot, correct? He has neither the name, nor the statline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 He has the name, when he has the Honour Guard statline. He can be given whatever equipment an Honour Guard can. Then you give him a power weapon and combat shield, voila Blood Champion with Honour Guard equipment plus. As I said, if he didn't keep the equipment from being an Honour Guard he wouldn't have a bolt pistol or bolter, just a PW+CS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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