Thunderfire Tech Marine

[Slick Jimmy]

In the Space Marine Codex, under the Servitor entry, it states that a unit of servitors may be taken for every Tech Marine or MotF in the army. Does this include The Tech Marine Gunner that crews a Thunderfire Cannon? It would be nice to have some servitors backing up a Tech Marine whilst he mans his gun, although they count as a separate units until the TC is destroyed and would be subject to Mindlock, it would still be kinda neat to have em.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I would say yes, although Army Builder doesn't have it as an option (I know, I know, but it's the only resource I have to hand at the moment). Like you say, though, they can't join the Techie until the cannon's gone, and if all of the enemy firepower blasts the crewman instead of the gun, now you're stuck with Mindlockable servitors.

[TyrionTheImp]

There is nothing in the FAQ, and it does say specifically "Every Techmarine" I would assume, yes, you can take servitors with the Techmarine from Thunderfire cannons. I don't see why you wouldn't be table to.

[Slick Jimmy]

That's how I was gonna play it. Make a nice Tech Heavy army with some extra wounds running around without taking up a FO slot.

[gorbhan]

You cant because there is no upgrade option in the listing. Besides that, it says servitors can be taken with every techmarine and MoTF, and the thunderfire canon comes with a techmarine GUNNER, gunner being a keyword.

Besides, taking servitors would screw up the allocations of wounds on a thunderfire.

 

Personally, id allow servitors in an apoc game, but thats it. And youd still have to house rule how the wounds would be figured out, and i can already foresee that being a horrible mess.

[Slick Jimmy]

I don't want to take the Servitors with the Thunderfire cannon, I know that's not an option, but a unit of servitors can be taken without being attached to a tech marine, thus the mindlock rule, and since the tech marine gunner has the same statline and abilities of a tech marine, and is in fact a tech marine in every respect if the Thunderfire gets blown to bits. I figured that the servitor entry stating that a squad of servitors may be taken for each tech marine in the army, would include tech marine gunners.

[Tutteman]

I agree with Slick Jimmy's interpretation, although I don't have a codex to hand...Might check

 

EDIT: Just had a look, I think that he counts as a Techmarine. He has Techmarine gunner still has techmarine in it. Of course i was always more of a "this makes sense" then a strict RAW letter perfect person :P

[Meatman]

A tech marine gunner is still a tech marine. That's how I see it anyway.

[greatcrusade08]

A tech marine gunner is still a tech marine. That's how I see it anyway.

 

its not an argument ive considered, but this interpretation seems reasonable to me.. although i hasten to add that they cannot join the gunner until the thunderfire is destroyed as hes not an IC until that point

[Pcm979]

Originally I was going to disagree, but I've just looked at the Codex again and now I have to agree. ROWly speaking there's nothing to stop you.

[wizard12]

I say even though it says techmarine gunner you can take servitors, just like being able to put a scout sergeant in a LSS even though it says only scouts can go in it.

[Whitefireinferno]

Ha you lot are silly where abouts on page 142 does it say anything about them getting servitors? You can not just add rules to units to make yourselves feel better Geeze.

[Meatman]

Under the techmarine entry (or MotF, can't remember) it says you may include a unit of servitors for each techmarine or MotF in your army.

[Whitefireinferno]

Does It mention "Techmarine Gunner"? nope.

[Gaz1858]

To be honest if you take it as the codex says then no you couldnt take any Servitors for the Techmarine Gunner. Yes he has the statline and all the rules of a Techmarine but in the Servitor entry it says "For every Techmarine or MOTF you may take......". The Techmarine and MOTF have theyre own entry and the Techamrine Gunner has his. Essentially a different unit. Unless it is FAQ'd it would be no.

 

Ha you lot are silly where abouts on page 142 does it say anything about them getting servitors? You can not just add rules to units to make yourselves feel better Geeze.

 

Try and keep the personal remarks to yourself WhiteFireInferno. They are not helpful and people can have different interpretations of the rules. Thats why they come here seeking clarification, not snide remarks.

[Whitefireinferno]

To be honest if you take it as the codex says then no you couldnt take any Servitors for the Techmarine Gunner. Yes he has the statline and all the rules of a Techmarine but in the Servitor entry it says "For every Techmarine or MOTF you may take......". The Techmarine and MOTF have theyre own entry and the Techamrine Gunner has his. Essentially a different unit. Unless it is FAQ'd it would be no.

 

THIS.

[DarkGuard]

There's more to 40K than just rules and strict RAW army building. If someone wanted to take a unit of Servitors with the only Techmarine being the one crewing the Thunderfire Cannon then that'd be fine by me, he's a Techmarine. The Servitors can be taken with any Techmarine or MotF in the army. On the unit profile page it refers you to the earlier Techmarine entry for his special rules and equipment, stating he gets all his normal rules when the Thunderfire Cannon is destroyed. I'd interpret therefore that he can get one, as that entry is more for the Thunderfire rules and a small clarification on whether it's the Techmarine or someone else using it. As it's a Techmarine, then he can have some Servitors.

[Whitefireinferno]

... But he only would become eligible to get the Servitors after the TFC is gone and at that point its way too late and thats not being a rules lawyer its paying attention to the RULES you know games have them for a reason,

 

Okay we have page 138 of C;SM TECHMARINE.................................................................50 Points

 

Now on page 142 THUNDERFIRE CANNON.................................................................100 Points sure that comes with a Techmarine but it is not the unit entry and then its a Techmarine Gunner so not just a Techmarine so still not fitting the guide lines to get servitors because he is DIFFERENT.

 

SO yeah your just gonna say I am wrong regardless so meh How bout you send a letter to GW and have them tell you I am correct.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Does It mention "Techmarine Gunner"? nope.

That's like saying Tigurius is not a Psyker because he does not have the Psyker rule in his entry (unlike the vanilla Libby), just the "Master Psyker" rule.

 

Personally, I agree that the gunner allows you to take a unit of brainless cyborgs. However, it is something that I would discuss with you opponent beforehand.

[Slick Jimmy]

Well the reason I bring it up is because the "Servitor" entry in the codex, is where the rules for taking them is listed. It is not a tech marine rule, as no tech marine of MotF has any sort of rule stating that they can take a squad of servitors.

 

So. Hypothetically. If I were to take a MotF, a unit of Servitors, and a thunderfire cannon, let's say for argument sake, that the thunderfire cannon is destroyed, the MotF is not part of the same unit as the servitors and being that the Tech Marine Gunner from the cannon is now and independent character, who is identical in every way to a tech marine, and there is in fact no entry for tech marine gunner in the stat line index in the back of the book, do the Servitors have to test for mindlock if joined by the tech marine gunner?

 

If yes, then then the argument is that tech marine gunners are not true tech marines, even though they have the same stats, special rules, and wargear, as a tech marine. Otherwise they are tech marines, and would be counted in the special rule in the servitor entry as a tech marine thus allowing another squad of servitors to be taken at the controlling players leisure.

 

As I read it, Servitors are not an upgrade a tech marine takes, they are a separate unit that functions as such with another speacial rule (Mindlock) that makes them more effective in the presence of a tech marine.

 

It seems to me the intent of GW is that the Tech Marine Gunner, is indeed a Tech Marine, as he is a Tech Marine in all game play capacity once removed from Tending a TC.

[AbyssKnight]

I think some people are drawing a distinction that doesn't exist. The Thunderfire cannon's gunner is a Techmarine. Under Unit Composition, yes, it lists Techmarine Gunner but under the actual in the actual unit statistic box (the actual game mechanic info) it just says Techmarine, just like under the Techmarine entry.

 

Furthermore, if you look at the entry for Thunderfire cannon on page 73, it says the cannon is crewed by a single Techmarine and references you to page 71, which is the regular Techmarine page. The only rules changes listed on page 73 to modify those from pg 71 is the crewman loses Independant Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah rules until the cannon is destroyed (at which point, given the language, he presumable regains them and is exactly like any other Techmarine).

 

In my opinion, sure, a Thunderfire Tech Marine would qualify to purchase a compliment of servitors.

[gorbhan]

I think some people are drawing a distinction that doesn't exist. The Thunderfire cannon's gunner is a Techmarine. Under Unit Composition, yes, it lists Techmarine Gunner but under the actual in the actual unit statistic box (the actual game mechanic info) it just says Techmarine, just like under the Techmarine entry.

 

Furthermore, if you look at the entry for Thunderfire cannon on page 73, it says the cannon is crewed by a single Techmarine and references you to page 71, which is the regular Techmarine page. The only rules changes listed on page 73 to modify those from pg 71 is the crewman loses Independant Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah rules until the cannon is destroyed (at which point, given the language, he presumable regains them and is exactly like any other Techmarine).

 

In my opinion, sure, a Thunderfire Tech Marine would qualify to purchase a compliment of servitors.

 

Thinking about it, sure, you can take servitors, why not. That's saying that you bend the rules of a very, very grey area and can get past the fact that your taking a thunderfire canon, and it come along with a techmarine, so sure, take some servitors.

Personaly, i wouldnt though. Its a waste of points to take a squad of servitors because you cant join your techmarine to them until the canon is destroyed, and till that happens they are suffering from mind lock. So what are you going to do? Have them sit behind the canon until its destroyed? If so then yay, thats at least 70 points thats just hanging out, half the time doing nothing at all.

[AbyssKnight]

Well, I didn't say I thought it would be necessarily useful. Just that I thought it would be legal.

[TyrionTheImp]

... But he only would become eligible to get the Servitors after the TFC is gone and at that point its way too late and thats not being a rules lawyer its paying attention to the RULES you know games have them for a reason,

 

Okay we have page 138 of C;SM TECHMARINE.................................................................50 Points

 

Now on page 142 THUNDERFIRE CANNON.................................................................100 Points sure that comes with a Techmarine but it is not the unit entry and then its a Techmarine Gunner so not just a Techmarine so still not fitting the guide lines to get servitors because he is DIFFERENT.

 

SO yeah your just gonna say I am wrong regardless so meh How bout you send a letter to GW and have them tell you I am correct.

 

Is that...Thunderfire cannon envy? Or just the Black Rage consuming another Flesh Tearer? ;)

 

Anyways, I stand by my original response that yes, you could take servitors. The Thunderfire Cannon entry has under its statline listed "Techmarine" not "Techmarine Gunner" despite the Unit Composition saying "Techmarine Gunner". To me "Techmarine Gunner" is like the "Scout Sergeant" mentioned in a previous post. He's not a "scout" he's a "scout Sergeant", but the way people take that is the "Scout" part makes him qualify as a "scout" and thus able to ride in a Land Speeder Storm. I would assume this works in the same way. He's a "Techmarine Gunner" but he's still a "Techmarine" that is also the "gunner" for the Cannon, which gives him the modified rules, losing Blessing and IC whilst the cannon is alive, but maintains his "Techmarine" status and opens up the option to purchase Servitors.

[CaptinLoken]

Can a tech marine join the unit of a Techmarine/Thunder-gun? I'm kinda puzzled but this while reading this tread..... as for the Servitors I would agree that they should be able to field but the risk/value of the unit causes a lot of if's that would make it a no.

 

- I just noticed something funny ... Techmarines do not have the option of droppods and clearly with the rules one thundergun does not allow you to drop the marine with it. This is amusing.

 

AS far as I'm skimming in the text is that the techmarine gunner is set only to operate this gun just from fluff point of view, if he was additionally set to control a unit of servitors he would need 3 more arms to do all of this operating. The modifications to the techmarine allows him to focus on this one set of gun. I feel it just makes sense to avoid the additional unit.