Did people know about daemons during the Great Crusade?

[GreaterDragon]

More precisely,regarding the knowledge about the Immaterium during the HH.We know the Emperor was keeping the existence of the chaos gods a secret but did "people" know about the inhabitants of the Warp?It would appear that they did not but after reading "Descent of the Angels" I was puzzled.The Dark Angels fought to prevent a Daemon from materializing and their Librarian had enough knowledge to design a device specifically to stop that.I kinda got the impression that they were all like "Yeah demons,the usual."And that was shortly after the Lion was recovered so I'd assume it was relatively early in the crusade? (Though I did not check this,totally guessing here.)

 

So,what's the deal?

[Captain Tezdal]

Seems like they were aware of certain warp creatures, but only as "Xenos", aliens in the warp, not of the actual gods, greater daemons etc..

[Tutteman]

The average person didn't have a clue. Higher up people knew. Loken or Horus mentions how they have fought warp creatures during their conversation after Jubal turns. They also mention how they have seen psykers possessed. As Captain Tezdal said, they were describe in a secular way, as xenos just from another dimension.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Librarians of the time (ref. Ahriman & Ohthere Wyrdmake in Thousand Sons) knew them as "void predators," mindless psychic beasts capable of damaging an unprotected mind. They were, however, unaware of the presence of the vast and malign intelligences that we know of as the named gods; it would seem that only Magnus and the Emperor were aware of them.

[Iron Father Rik]

I second Deus Ex Ferrum there, and echo Tutteman in that most of the general population of the fledgeling Imperium did not know about deamons, like most of them in the 41st millenium don't know either. Also like in the 41st millenium only people with experience of, or high enough rank to be granted the knowledge of daemons and void predator creatures actually know about them, and few of them understand them. Certainly any trained psykers such as astartes librarians, navigators and astropaths would know about the lesser creatures of the warp, though not the higher powers of Chaos.

 

Only the likes of the Emperor and Magnus knew about the vast power of the Chaos gods, and mostly only the Emperor truly understood them for the ultimate beings that they are, Magnus being somewhat arrogant in his belief that he could best them. In the 41st millenium, still only a very scarce few understand anything about Chaos gods too, most who know them know only a name or description in order to worship of them and receive the "gifts" they bestow.

 

**Edit** Addition:

I always got the impression that it was the Horus Heresy that really began the big growth of the power of the warp, or at least that accelerated it, or perhaps, in a sense, "awoke" Chaos from a metaphorical hibernation, as the power of humanity from which they primarily feed grew. Therefore before there would be precious little evidence about Chaos, and so next to nothing to actually know about it.

[mob16151]

**Edit** Addition:

I always got the impression that it was the Horus Heresy that really began the big growth of the power of the warp, or at least that accelerated it, or perhaps, in a sense, "awoke" Chaos from a metaphorical hibernation, as the power of humanity from which they primarily feed grew. Therefore before there would be precious little evidence about Chaos, and so next to nothing to actually know about it.

 

I disagree with this myself. Just from reading through the heresy series. You keep getting references to books from the age of strife that talk about Daemons. And Daemonic possession, and all kinds of good stuff. Basically what I'm saying is i doubt the Horus heresy made chaos that much more...............pervasive, I guess I'm saying.

[Rain]

Somebody once said that Horus lost the Heresy and Chaos won it and I think I generally agree. Sure Chaos was pervasive before the Heresy, and as time does not really exist in the warp, Chaos has always and will always be pervasive both in the same and different degrees simultaneously. No, it's not supposed to make sense.

 

That said, the Emperor was trying to gain access to the webway, which would sideline the warp as a means of transport and perhaps even lead to some other project that would seal the warp off. This was a big no-no to the Chaos gods, who took notice and set the Heresy in motion to keep it from occurring. They succeeded. See the thing is, that while the Chaos Legions and other various followers of Chaos want to overthrow the Imperium, to the Gods such mortal trifles are pretty irrelevant, and even the attention given to Horus was minute compared to the attention they give to their eternal struggle against one another, which is really both their ultimate purpose and nature.

 

Also the Imperium in the state that it is in currently is very stagnant which must please Nurgle, violent which must please Khorne, extravagant at the top levels of planetary nobility which pleases Slaanesh, and full of intrigue and scheming which pleases Tzeentch. Back during the Crusade, only the violence was there, and even that was a lot more reasoned and directed than the current random pogroms that occur whenever some guy in the Ecclesiarchy gets antsy.

[GreaterDragon]

I guess I am kinda bummed by how seemingly easy it was to corrupt the Primarchs.Granted,the daemons came to Horus at a time when he was injured and vulnerable but if I knew that there was "something" in the Warp I would be double wary of anything that has to do with it.Anyway,maybe I'm biased because I already knew about it.

[Priest33]

I still find it odd how quickly he turned. Even in a weakened state he found out what Erebus was doing an was still like "eh thats cool ill just betray everything for giggles" instead of crushing Erebus and warning his father of the fall of a legion.

 

As to the general populas? No they didnt know and most still dont know. Even Loken who was a high ranking officer of one of the greatest legions of the time only really knew it as hear say and light warnings. Horus blows it off as meaningless Xenos when he talks to Loken about what happened at the whispering Hills.

[Iron Father Rik]

Back during the Crusade, only the violence was there.

 

At the risk of going off-topic, that's not strictly true. Whilst not as obviously pronounced or widespread as in the 41st millenium, politics intruige and rivalry was still there in the form of inter-primarch sibling rivalry, and inter-legion rivalry. On a lesser scale, disease still existed amongst humans. Also human nature still desired power and luxuries, and though the Imperial nobility was still emerging, it still existed and there would still have been the usual excesses of the rich evident throughout all human history - fertile ground for Slaanesh's influence to spread.

 

**Edit** Also, the galaxy was going through massive change at the time, far more than in the 41st millenium, which would have been an absaloute dream for Tzeench.

[Marshal Traben]

Isn't the warp essentially a another dimension? :huh:

[GreaterDragon]

Well,yes.A dimension of pure energy where the desires and nightmares of mortals coalesce to give form to beings of pure emotion,etc.What are you really asking? :P

[Marshal Traben]

Well,yes.A dimension of pure energy where the desires and nightmares of mortals coalesce to give form to beings of pure emotion,etc.What are you really asking? :P

If Daemons are extra-dimensional creatures of pure energy, desires and nightmares of mortals given form. Then the Ruinous Powers are not gods, but very powerful extra-dimensional creatures with energy acculumated over tens of thousands of years? :P

[GreaterDragon]

Yes,not gods as in the sense that they made the world etc.After all,Slaanesh did not exist before the fall of the Eldar and there is even a chance that the Emperor would have been a god if the Horus Heresy had not happened.But of course who knows what would have happened instead?

[Marshal Traben]

Yes,not gods as in the sense that they made the world etc.After all,Slaanesh did not exist before the fall of the Eldar and there is even a chance that the Emperor would have been a god if the Horus Heresy had not happened.But of course who knows what would have happened instead?

 

That's a very good question.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The Chaos Gods are gods because they have been imbued with god-like power by the negative emotions of mere mortals such as us. Unintentionally, of course, but that's how it works.

[Sons of Horus]

By most legions and Primarchs they were known as warp xenos but not as daemons. The 1k sons (Ahriman in particular) also thought of them as xenos but Magnus the Red knew that there was something more to them than just that. He knew them as great sources of power or as "vast continental landmasses amidst a sea of chaos". He knew they were intelligent.

[Rain]

Yes,not gods as in the sense that they made the world etc.After all,Slaanesh did not exist before the fall of the Eldar and there is even a chance that the Emperor would have been a god if the Horus Heresy had not happened.But of course who knows what would have happened instead?

 

This is "explained" in the Daemon codex. Essentially time is truly meaningless in the warp as a concept, and so while Slaanesh has only existed for ~10,000 years in the "real" universe, he has always and will always exist in the warp, although he is also the youngest god and the others existed before him, even though he has always existed. Yeah.

 

Also the Emperor pretty much was/is a god in the 40k sense as all 40k gods are just immensely powerful entities with a strong presence in the immaterium. Remember that even indestructibility is not necessary for godhood in 40k as many of the Eldar gods were destroyed by Slaanesh.