Immobilised Furioso Librarian

[JamesI]

Fluffwise, I have no problem with WoS overriding immobilized. But until the FAQ changes it so the power overrides immoblized, by rules it doesn't.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Now...If WoS were to make the model Jump infantry...then their might be some validity to the statement...However...That would mean that Mephiston gets to suck down a Tempest's wrath anytime he uses it to get close. So actually that isn't that bad an idea *grins* Yeah I would be in support of that rule *grins evilly*

 

I mean its not as if I don't manage to cover almost the entire board with Tempest's wrath or anything *grins wider*

[Jawaballs]

WOS however is the dread trying to move itself despite the rules prohibiting it from making any kind of movement. that in my book equates to severe rules bending in the extreme and is at best a very liberal interpetation of the rules and at worst cheating.

 

Wow, this is ramping up the drama a little more than necessary.

 

The immobilized rule is for standard movement, and is from the main rulebook. The WoS power is extraordinary movement, and is from the codex. The wording is 'allows the Librarian to move as if he had a jump pack.' There is no limitation under which this movement can take place (specifically whether the Librarian dreadnought must not be immobilized). So in the end this is a simple matter of codex > main rulebook... an immobilized Librarian dread should be able to use WoS to move.

 

In fact, since the power lasts until the end of the player turn (not just the movement phase), one could make the argument that it actually allows an immobilized dreadnought to assault as well. Methinks we need an official FAQ...

 

I think what the other guy was getting at is that topics like this give people a really bad taste in their mouth and even raising the question calls into question why you play the game. The Blood Angels are already powerful enough, no need to play word games to try to eek out even more advantages.

 

Despite however it is read or interpreted, it can be pretty much agreed upon that the power simply lets a Dread move as if he has a jump pack when he is allowed to move. A stunned dread with no extra armor can't move, so no wings. An immobilized dread can't move so no wings. Sure the codex designers cant possibly predict every cheeze ball exception to every word they print, and publish preemptive rules to counter them. They rely upon a little bit of common sense.

 

Jawaballs

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

if you accept that WoS makes it move as JI and thust bypass it's immobilized result, then it would be able to run and assault as well, i think that's the argument here.

[Zeller]

Dont really understand why you would want to move it anyway, its not like it can magicaly charge something with its move, sure it can contest objectives and I guess some people would want to put it in cover or something odd.. but really why move it at all?

 

Rear shots.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Yeh you can always find a reason to move... weapon range, rear shots, contesting objectives etc...

 

I think I'd allow this in friendly games to be honest, per the fluff it does seem workable... though I like the '2 dangerous terrain tests' idea due to 2 non-functioning legs, possibly with worse outcomes than normal (like explodes!). I think that would be a fun risk to witness or try.

 

One thing planetstrike and other supplements have taught me is that if both players are not jerks, it's fun to 'break' the game. Obviously if one guy is 'breaking' it just for uber powergaming win-at-all-cost bs than it's a total failure.

 

But yeah in serious games, I think it's pretty clear what the intended ruling should be; no movement of any sort after immobilized.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Yeh you can always find a reason to move... weapon range, rear shots, contesting objectives etc...

 

I think I'd allow this in friendly games to be honest, per the fluff it does seem workable... though I like the '2 dangerous terrain tests' idea due to 2 non-functioning legs, possibly with worse outcomes than normal (like explodes!). I think that would be a fun risk to witness or try.

 

One thing planetstrike and other supplements have taught me is that if both players are not jerks, it's fun to 'break' the game. Obviously if one guy is 'breaking' it just for uber powergaming win-at-all-cost bs than it's a total failure.

 

But yeah in serious games, I think it's pretty clear what the intended ruling should be; no movement of any sort after immobilized.

Maybe have it suffering a pen if it does land in difficult terrain,a glance otherwise.*shrugs* I don't know.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

WOS however is the dread trying to move itself despite the rules prohibiting it from making any kind of movement. that in my book equates to severe rules bending in the extreme and is at best a very liberal interpetation of the rules and at worst cheating.

 

Wow, this is ramping up the drama a little more than necessary.

 

The immobilized rule is for standard movement, and is from the main rulebook. The WoS power is extraordinary movement, and is from the codex. The wording is 'allows the Librarian to move as if he had a jump pack.' There is no limitation under which this movement can take place (specifically whether the Librarian dreadnought must not be immobilized). So in the end this is a simple matter of codex > main rulebook... an immobilized Librarian dread should be able to use WoS to move.

 

In fact, since the power lasts until the end of the player turn (not just the movement phase), one could make the argument that it actually allows an immobilized dreadnought to assault as well. Methinks we need an official FAQ...

 

I think what the other guy was getting at is that topics like this give people a really bad taste in their mouth and even raising the question calls into question why you play the game. The Blood Angels are already powerful enough, no need to play word games to try to eek out even more advantages.

 

Despite however it is read or interpreted, it can be pretty much agreed upon that the power simply lets a Dread move as if he has a jump pack when he is allowed to move. A stunned dread with no extra armor can't move, so no wings. An immobilized dread can't move so no wings. Sure the codex designers cant possibly predict every cheeze ball exception to every word they print, and publish preemptive rules to counter them. They rely upon a little bit of common sense.

 

Jawaballs

 

Exactly, Jawa.

 

When the Dread moves, he move like a JP. If he can't move, it doesn't matter how he would move because he can't move.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Imo it's pretty clear that this shouldn't be allowed in serious games, but friendly games are a different story (depending on your group); how's this for a "fun game" house rule?

 

Librarian Furioso Dreadnoughts are amongst the most venerable of all the living Blood Angels. These ancient, entombed Librarians have minds capable of deeds that mere mortals can barely comprehend. Should a Furioso Librarian's armoured sarcophagus become damaged or immobilized it may still attempt to maneuver using its massive psychic will. However, without a functioning launch or landing understructure the risk of further damage is extremely high. Critical exposures and points of vulnerability can easily become overwhelmed when the massive dreadnought frame is lifted or dropped from the battle torn earth.

 

A stunned or immobilized Librarian Furioso may attempt to cast the '

Wings of Sanguinius

' psychic power, but the following rules apply:

 

If the power is successful and a

stunned

dreadnought is to be moved via psychic power, the controlling player must pass a

dangerous terrain test

at both the beginning and the end of the move. If the dreadnought was previously immobilized then the test is doubled, meaning 2xD6 are rolled prior to moving and 2xD6 are rolled after the movement is completed. Any 1's that have been rolled will result in the dreadnought being "

Destroyed - explodes!

" per the normal vehicle damage rules.

 

Further, should the dreadnought begin or end its move in difficult terrain, instead of taking another

dangerous terrain test

it simply takes an automatic glancing hit.

 

I think the added risk makes it fun, and fair; I'm definitely gonna try this! :wacko: The added risk also makes it something you might try once a game, rather than every turn.