Strategy vs. Tau

[Isryion]

1850 BA vs. Tau

 

Originally I had planned to tailor my list, but I realized I wanted to see what a more balanced list would do and brought as many painted models as I could) , so my final army looked like this::

 

2x 10RAS squads 2x meltas+PF/1xmelta+infernus+PF

1x Tactical Squad with Lascannon and Flamer

6x DC with PF, PS in a Razorback

1 DC Dreadnaught in Drop Pod

2x Sang Priest, 1 w/jump pack and sword, one w/o any upgrades

5x Terminators w/ Assault Cannon

2x Baal Preds with Assault Cannons/HB sponsons

Reclusiarch in termy armor (love the model, can't give it up!)

 

The Tau (The list is definitely not exact and I don't remember the names for sure either):

1 Ethereal with gonor guard x10

8 pathfinders with transport

12 fire warriors

1 big Kroot squad (with hounds/kroot/and a couple of 3 wound models)

1 infiltrating kroot squad (also a big squad, but no multi-wound models)

2 battlesuits? w/ 2 drones railguns

2 Crisis Suits

3 Stealth Suits

Commander in Crisis suit (built to tie up units)

2 Hammerheads, one with railgun the other with 3x AP 3 cannon.

Pirhana? (skimmer) w/ fusion cannon

 

The scenario was loot counters with spearhead deployment. Terrain from my perspective was a bunker in the middle, a ruins on far side in the center, a forest on far left corner, a forest in the right corner near and far, and another ruin in the near left table corner. Counters were placed in the near left ruin, far left woods, center bunker, and middle right in the open.

 

DEPLOYMENT: He deployed far left and I was near right. I rolled high and made him deploy first.

 

Most of his units were in or protected by the woods. He kept the pirhana in reserve and used the crisis suits in deepstrike. The infiltrating kroot deployed in the far right table corner woods. His pathfinders and their transport used their scout move to get close to the bunker. Stealth suits were in the right near corner of my deployment zone behind a piece of terrain.

 

I deployed only the tac squad with the vanilla SP. Everything else was in reserve, outflanking or deepstriking. No combat squadding due to his huge sqauds and tons of shooting. In retrospect, I probably should have just reserved the tac squad as well but I was loathe to give up the Lascannon shots against the Hammerheads. .

 

TURN 1:

 

Tau: The Tau put out an obscene number of shots, but despite taking well over 30 wounds, I only lost one of the tac squad thanks to lucky AS, backup FNP, and 3 solid cover saves when neither of those were available. This would turn out to be rather important as even a couple more wounds on this squad would have made a win nearly impossible by the end. Putting these guys on was an error, giving him something to shoot at. In addition, it meant he could shoot everything at them, and had he done sufficient damage, would have begun taking my army apart piecemeal.

 

BA: DC Dread comes down on target in the far right table quarter. It's shielded by the building, and woods, but I doubt it will last. This is one thing I noted about my list. I like having one Drop Pod frequently, but in a game like this, this seems like it could have been 160 wasted points and another opportunity for him to take apart my army one bit at a time. I take out one of the infiltrating kroot. Not all that exciting.

 

Score is 0-1 Tau (he's contesting middle and has both the far right and far left objectives)

 

TURN 2:

 

Tau: Pirhana (skimmer?) comes in right behind my dread. Everything that could take it out moves in position towards the middle of the table to shoot at it. Anything that can't stays put, with the exception of the transport, which picks up some fire warriors and moves towards the ruins on the left side of my half of the table. A crisis suit deepstrikes near the Stealth Suits. He gets two marker lights on the DC dread but fails to hit with anything, coming up with a ton of ones and those he does hit with don't glance or pen. Fire on the tactical squad is much lighter this turn and I may have lost one if any. Tau shooting has only amounted to maybe 2 dead marines in two rounds. I've been very lucky.

 

BA: I roll for reserves and get everything but one Baal, thanks to DoA on the jump packs, we come in like a well coordinated Angels of Death should -- all at once and sticking. In retrospect, I should have rolled for the Baal first, as I could then have better used my more flexible deepstrike positions. It didn't hurt in the end, but something to keep in mind.

 

* Terminators w/Rec come in on the right side of the table just shy of the mid line. They're equidistant to the bunker (center middle) and the infiltrated kroot squad (far right). They are within shooting range of the Ethereal and his HG (far center) and the Stealth suits (near right)

* RAS #1 w/Sang Priestcomes down left on the midline. They are about 6" from the Kroot pack (far left), a Hammerhead(slightly left of center mid). In both cases of my RAS, I should have dropped them a bit farther away, but I really wanted them to have as many options as possible.

* RAS #2 comes down on the far side just left of the center line, behind the HG. Within 6" (after circling them up) of the other hammerhead and easily within jump/assault distance of the Ethereal HG, the Kroot, or the Battle suits (deep center).

* DC in Razor: Come in on the center line and park next to the ruins that are near left quarter, ready to kills some Tau!

* Baal Pred comes in deep right, behind the Pirhana (again not sure if that is the right name for it or not).

 

So that's the setup. I position the meltas in the RAS so they are actually within 6" of the hammerheads, but that doesn't go well for me as I miss with all but of them, including a regular infernus. I do shake the one near the center. Pirhana gets crashed by the Baal Pred. In the assault phase, DC Dread destroys the Kroot on the right side doing over 20 wounds (rolled 10 straight hits and wounds to start). Terminators kills some of the Ethereal's HG.

 

Score: 0-1 Tau (I'm now contesting far right while he owns far left and contests center).

 

TURN 3:

 

Tau: My opponent is a bit flabbergasted and I'm in shock, but The Emperor Protects...at least for now. This turn would be different. He destroys RAS squad #2 (no priest) except for the sergeant with the fist. He assaults RAS squad 2 with the Kroot on the left side. The assault is a draw, mostly because my fist whiffs. I lose 5 marines. The fire warriors get out of the transport and occupy the ruins, claiming an objective token (back to 2-0, for now...). We both agreed this was a huge mistake on his part, committing these guys far too early and putting them out where the DC can get them. He was far too eager for shots at the razorback. He shoots the razorback but only immobilizes it. His other crisis suit comes down in the center of the table just short of the mid line on my side.

 

BA: Terminators move toward the center, but their shooting is ineffective. DC Dread and Baal Pred finish off the pirhana and its drones. Tactical squad is getting itchy but staying in place -- the lascannon has done nothing. DC assault and wipe out the fire warriors with no trouble. They'll have to chase the transport for a turn or two, and are out of the game at this point. RAS Squad w/priest win the combat with the kroot this round and kroot fall back. These kroot would fail to regroup, which was rather important, since it is now his lone remaining scoring unit. The lone sergeant with a fist tries to assassinate the Ethereal in the assault phase but fails and dies for his troubles to the Ethereal's blade. I should have just jumped him near my other unit, which would have given my an infernus pistol shot at a hammerhead and protected him a bit more. Baal Pred comes on and stuns a hammerhead. My lascannon tactical elimates the crisis suit that was hanging out with the stealth suits.

 

Score is now 0-1 (falling back kroot are back on the objective, he contests the center and I contest the far right. No one holds the near left in the ruins).

 

TURN 4:

 

Tau: He's getting desperate and as his kroot fail their rally test, they move closer to his board edge. He nearly obliterates the RAS squad with the SP. I've just a meltagun at the end of the shooting phase. Now, I'm down to less than 10 scoring troops (7 tacticals and a meltagun RAS).

 

BA: DC are essentially out of the game at this point but assault and destroy the transport. My DC dread and Baal Pred on the far right move closer to the center and are no longer contesting the objective on the far right. My tacs start their move toward the objective on the far right, running this turn. Terminators move in, shoot and assault the other crisis suit, killing it. They consolidate toward the center bunker and contest the objective there. My lone remaining RAS gets a shot at a hammerhead but only shakes it.

 

Score:0-0. (center objective is contested by both of us)

 

TURN 5:

 

Tau: My opponent finally realizes he needs to direct all fire at the tacticals. They take a couple of casualties but pass their morale check. The other unit of kroot finally exit the board. The meltagun RAS is killed.

 

BA: DC Dread moves toward and assualts the Ethereal and his HG. The Tau Ethereal doesn't stand a chance, but the rest of his army goes along as if nothing happened. I'm starting to whittle down the battle suit drones and one stealth suit. Terminators move around the bunker, trying to hit a hammerhead but to no avail. I kill another of the stealth suits. The Baal on the left shoots at and kills one of the Battlesuit's drones.

 

Score: Still 0-0

 

 

TURN 6:

 

Tau: The Stealth suit moves to contest the far right objective. All shooting is directed at the tactical squad, who take a couple more casualties and are left with 2-3 models and a priest. Commander (yep, he's been flying around but hasn't done much because he was concerned about PF) assaults the DC, hoping to get a 4d6 move and help the stealth suit contest the far right objective. It doesn't work as the DC fist gets him instead. Probably worth the risk at this point.

 

BA: Termies assault a hammerhead, DC dread gets into the Battle Suits, and at this point we're mopping up. The Baal Pred that had followed the DC Dread turned around to rend the stealth suits. The tacticals moved onto the objective and the game ends 1-0 for the BA.

 

Final Thoughts:

Most of my thoughts are included above already, but I'd add that I need to find a way to fit in a template weapon, maybe a plasma gun instead of my lascannon. Tough call though. I also never thought that 30 scoring troops would be too few, and it almost was. I've also got to figure out what to do with the lone drop pod as I either need to be OK sacrificing it in games like these or I need to cut it. I'd also add that I was very lucky overall, with these 4 events: my tacticals weathering the fire in turn 1, his Tau completely missing the DC dread Turn 2, everything coming in together when deepstriking, and his kroot running off the board.

[Isryion]

My last game against Tau, and only game since 5th edition codex, involved a squad of 16 kroot of which 1 shaper charging 5 BA tactical marines. The marines took 1 wound and made 2 then they wiped out the kroot. He tried the same thing earlier against memphiston who didn't even get hurt (he did learn from that by not charging him with the second squad).

So while it was only 1 game my experience tells me that kroot are not the biggest thread in the Tau army. The Crisis suits and other battle suits did pretty well being equipped with plasma weapons but in close combat they die pretty easily.

 

My opponent takes a massive number of kroot in each unit. They eventually sneak wounds through due just to sheer volume and with hounds being initiative 5, hopefully they don't take out too many early. At WS 4, they were also tough to hit and a poor role can skew the combat. It's true, though, that they aren't normally going to beat me in a straight up fight as we saw, against even our basic RAS (with a priest). Though I'm also investing far more points than he does.

 

 

I once again appreciate the advice from everyone. While I didn't use it to tailor my list, it did get me to make sure I was getting into combat as soon as possible set and that alone helped along with other bits here and there.

[Rybnick]

Typically what I've seen of Kroot is that even a 5 man squad w/ a priest can kill a much larger Kroot squad (typically 7-10 kroot w/ a few hounds in my gaming circle) while taking minimal damage itself with 3+ saves and fnp. The times that I haven't completely wiped the unit out they usually loose so many that they fail morale and are either overrun or run off the board.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I think the best way to deal with kroot are flamers and rapid-fired bolters(when not in cover) to whittle them down, and then assault them. RAS with SP are good enough, but still a bit overkill. Just make sure his Kroot won´t assault, that´s their biggest advantage - flame and assault them, that´s their weakness.

 

Nice job on the win! And also very nice to hear that the game was very close as well...those games are the best, imho.

 

 

Snorri

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Very exciting game. I'd like to post your batrep on my blog if you don't mind.

 

0b :P

[Isryion]

Sure, no problem.

[SamaNagol]

30 Troops isnt too few if they have vehicles to sit in. ESPECIALLY against Tau who can pick you off from afar with basic weaponry.

[Isryion]

30 Troops isnt too few if they have vehicles to sit in. ESPECIALLY against Tau who can pick you off from afar with basic weaponry.

 

Except they can then pick the vehicles off from afar and then shoot your now move 6 troops....It worked out just fine in the end to deepstrike them all in, and part of the issue was my poor timing with winning combat. It always was on my turn, breaking him and then leaving a unit exposed. The basic weaponry didn't account for all that much except in the one situation where I didn't have feel no pain. 3 vehicles is 150, minimum, too, which means fewer troops or one less baal.

[Zeller]

Played a game today against a friend who recently picked up Tau with a focus on Kroot.

 

My list:

captain, jp, pw (attached to RAS)

10x RAS, pf, mg, fmr

10x RAS, pf, mg, fmr

2x MM AB

2x LS w/ MM

Baal Predator, hb, sb

Predator Destructor, hb, sb

Vindicator, ss

 

His list:

Centurion Shas'el

12 FW

6 FW

17 Kroot, shaper

17 Kroot, shaper

5 Stealth Suits

Hammerhead, railgun, burst cannons, d-pod

Hammerhead, railgun, burst cannons, d-pod

Skyray, d-pod, SMS

 

We played a Tau battle mission. The roll had us play the Tau retreat mission where the table was split diagonally with 3 objectives from the center and going back towards the Tau border. Tau deployed first and split which was mistake 1. Hammerhead and skyray were on the left flank just inches from the edge my forces come in from. The kroot squads infiltrate close to my lines within assault range while the stealth team deployed behind a building midfield. My forces all come in turn 1 as per the scenario. Attack bikes, speeders, and baal pred come in on my right side and kill the hammerhead. RAS with captain come in, jump 12, flamer a kroot squad, charge, and massacre it. Anyways, the point being I deployed my forces together, everything was fast or had packs allowing the list to move at 12 inches a turn and shoot or assualt. Massed armor and massed infantry push up one flank and the Tau army crumpled.

 

Target priority was as follows:

Hammerhead nearest my edge

Skyray nearest my edge

Baal raced up to kill the second Hammerhead in his deployment zone and removed it's gun

RAS jumped the suit commander after kroot were killed

 

The RAS squads then engaged the nearest infantry they could find which likewise crumpled like tissue paper.

 

Dedicate parts of your force to kill the highest threats, keep the infantry safe from sub-munitions or tau rapid fire, but be aggresive. There were times during my game I felt I should have maybe consolidated towards his lines or pushed my tanks further ahead to get a better shot next turn but I couldn't risk side armor hits from stealth suits or FW. Stay aware of his troops and their mobility. Don't throw your men out into the open if they don't have support.

[Isryion]

Just an update, I was mistakenly calling hammerheads broadsides above, so I edited.

[Lokied]

As a person who plays both BA and Tau (started with BA) I can say this. BA is only marginally more difficult to counter as your typical SM assault list. I have so far gotten a 1-1 score playing against onother BA player with my tau (laying off the BA till the Bandwagon leaves town). The first game was pure Kill points and I slaughtered my opponent's army to the man. He was using almost all deep strike Assault squads and dreds in Drop Pods and 2 Flame Baals. The second game was objectives, and if not for a poor difficult terrain role by my fire warriors earlier I would have tied when the game ended early on turn 5, if it went to 6 I would have won. The second game had him deploying behind cover on the oposite end of the board but still losing a lot of men to my plas/melta/rail fire. First game was 2000-205 with victory points, the second was at least 1200-204 when it ended (both in my favour).

 

A plus for the BAs right now though, is the fact even the 4th ed Tau dex is optimised and balanced for 3rd Edition Space Marines. Meaning Tau are paying way too much for their units and wargeer in 5th edition.

[Burningblood]

I hope the tau get a new codex soon. I've been wanting to try them out for a while now. I've got two assault armies- I'd like a shooty/tactical army that isn't IG. Everyone keeps telling me to wait for the new codex so I have thus far.

[Lokied]

Yes, I too would like a new Tau codex. Tau 4th ed was just a re-hash of the 3rd book. I love the new BA dex. As for killing Tau with BA it shouldn't be too difficult, BAs and SMs already have the numbers advantage (for every 4 unit choices BAs and SMs get a 5th one for free compared to 3rd ed. while Tau still putter around with 3rd ed. pts costs) and the quality of each model. Honestly, its a very difficult game to play as Tau nowadays, their shiny stuff (railguns) makes them look better than they realy are. Play to the BA's (and SMs) strengths. Bring a good hash of units like devs and Tac squads. Give the Tau player too much to shoot at, its very easy to do with the unbalanced points. As long as you stay away from the all-jump-pack-expensive-character lists. Tau players have to target prioritise to win in 5th. If you give them a big "look at me I'm a super expensive gonna kill you so good" unit to shoot at, they will. And then your down 250 points >.<. A smart Tau player should have a list to easily beat the Deep-strike-of-doom lists as well, so be carefull when, how, and how often you use them.

[SamaNagol]

Assault Cannon >> Tau Vehicles and Battlesuits