Noob question about Mephiston

[Sanji]

Hi all, i have a question about Mephiston's psychic powers. The codex tells that he can use 3 powers each turn, the question is the following: can he use 3 times the same power? For ex: he tries to use wings of sanguinius, but the power is dispelled by an enemy librarian with psychic hood.. Can he try to use again the wings power?

[VAGABOND]

Doubt he could if I'm honest, can't imagine he is alllowed to cast 3 of the same spells in the same turn.

 

Someone will probably correct me on this though.

[Sanji]

I knew that shooting psychic powers could not be re-cast, but mephiston's powers are not "shooting powers"

[Protector of Titan]

As far as I've seen and played with the new codex, you can only use the three listed in his entry (Wings of Sang, Might of Heroes, and The Sang Sword), I've been recently told that he can't use the same power twice.

 

I was in a situation, where I had used two powers, Might of Heroes and the Sword, in my assault on my turn, but in the next player turn, he attempted to assault me with a dreadnaught, and I wanted to use the Sang Sword again, so I could get the armour pen on the Dread... my opponent protested... so I conceded, doesn't mean I'm right, this is just from my playing experience.

[kollar]

Doubt he could if I'm honest, can't imagine he is alllowed to cast 3 of the same spells in the same turn.

 

Someone will probably correct me on this though.

 

There is nothing in the rulebook about not being able to use a specific power more than once , unless it's a shooting attack. As none of Mephistons powers are in fact shooting attacks, you can use either up to three times (as long as you don't exceed three powers in total). Not that Unleash Rage or Sword of Sanguinus has any point being used more than once...

 

Also means you can use your FW three times as long as you didn't cast anything else in the turn.

[Protector of Titan]

Hi all, i have a question about Mephiston's psychic powers. The codex tells that he can use 3 powers each turn, the question is the following: can he use 3 times the same power? For ex: he tries to use wings of sanguinius, but the power is dispelled by an enemy librarian with psychic hood.. Can he try to use again the wings power?

 

Not going to correct you Vaga, just merely point out that there are characters that can recast any of the powers, no matter what. But I believe it needs to be stated in their entry in the Codex.

 

sorry Vega, some how quoted the wrong person....

[kollar]

I was in a situation, where I had used two powers, Might of Heroes and the Sword, in my assault on my turn, but in the next player turn, he attempted to assault me with a dreadnaught, and I wanted to use the Sang Sword again, so I could get the armour pen on the Dread... my opponent protested... so I conceded, doesn't mean I'm right, this is just from my playing experience.

 

You got played. Not only is there nothing in the rulebook about not being able to cast the same non-shooting power more than once each turn, it's also each PLAYER turn that you can cast. That means you can cast three powers in your own turn, and then three powers in his turn as well. You could cast both the Sword AND Unleash Rage and he could do nothing about it.

[VAGABOND]

Hi all, i have a question about Mephiston's psychic powers. The codex tells that he can use 3 powers each turn, the question is the following: can he use 3 times the same power? For ex: he tries to use wings of sanguinius, but the power is dispelled by an enemy librarian with psychic hood.. Can he try to use again the wings power?

 

Not going to correct you Vaga, just merely point out that there are characters that can recast any of the powers, no matter what. But I believe it needs to be stated in their entry in the Codex.

 

sorry Vega, some how quoted the wrong person....

 

I wasn't exactly sure myself that's why I was hoping one of you guys could correct me.

 

Now I know for future referenc.e :D

[Protector of Titan]

I was in a situation, where I had used two powers, Might of Heroes and the Sword, in my assault on my turn, but in the next player turn, he attempted to assault me with a dreadnaught, and I wanted to use the Sang Sword again, so I could get the armour pen on the Dread... my opponent protested... so I conceded, doesn't mean I'm right, this is just from my playing experience.

 

You got played. Not only is there nothing in the rulebook about not being able to cast the same non-shooting power more than once each turn, it's also each PLAYER turn that you can cast. That means you can cast three powers in your own turn, and then three powers in his turn as well. You could cast both the Sword AND Unleash Rage and he could do nothing about it.

 

well, unleash rage isn't one of mephiston's powers so I couldn't do that :D

 

where does it say player turn? in the codex it just says "each turn"?

[Sanji]

So since it isn't written he can't use 3 times the same power each turn?

[Red Fury]

well, unleash rage isn't one of mephiston's powers so I couldn't do that

What? Mephy has 3 powers and unleash rage is one of them, along with sanguine sword and wings of sang.

 

 

where does it say player turn? in the codex it just says "each turn"?

In the BRB it is clearly stated that unless it specifically states 'Game turn' they are always referring to 'Player Turn'. I think it also says something in the C: BA at the top of the page that describes the psychic powers, but I'm at work without my dex right now.

 

Mephistons description says that he can use 3 psychic powers per turn. It has no restrictions on whether they are all the same (like 3 force weapon strikes) or all different.

 

-Fury

[teeef]

I was in a situation, where I had used two powers, Might of Heroes and the Sword, in my assault on my turn, but in the next player turn, he attempted to assault me with a dreadnaught, and I wanted to use the Sang Sword again, so I could get the armour pen on the Dread... my opponent protested... so I conceded, doesn't mean I'm right, this is just from my playing experience.

 

You got played. Not only is there nothing in the rulebook about not being able to cast the same non-shooting power more than once each turn, it's also each PLAYER turn that you can cast. That means you can cast three powers in your own turn, and then three powers in his turn as well. You could cast both the Sword AND Unleash Rage and he could do nothing about it.

 

well, unleash rage isn't one of mephiston's powers so I couldn't do that :P

 

where does it say player turn? in the codex it just says "each turn"?

Page 9, top of second paragraph in The Rule Book.

 

"Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns. Whenever a rule uses the word 'turn', both in this rule book and in the Codecies, it means 'player' turn, otherwise it will clearly state 'game turn'."

 

Remember Mephiston has FOUR psychic powers/abilities. You can only use three in your turn but you get to use all three (available) in his turn too.

 

So your turn, you can use wings, unleash, sang sword, and/or choose opponent who has unsaved wound and roll for Force Weapon in your turn, and then in his turn you can use unleash, sang sword, and choose opponent who has unsaved wound and roll for Force Weapon (Cannot move in his turn so you can't use wings).

 

Also: I disagree with Red Fury on the Force Weapon as the rule on page 50 says the Force Weapon may be used "against any one opponent that suffered an unsaved wound by the weapon in that player turn."

[Sanji]

So someone says he can use 3 times the same power and some say he cannot do it.. I am confused :P

[teeef]

So someone says he can use 3 times the same power and some say he cannot do it.. I am confused :P

I don't know how you could use wings three times in your turn. You only have one movement phase.

 

I don't know how you could use sang sword three times in your turn. You only have one assault phase. The effect is not cumulative.

 

I don't know how you could use unleash rage three times in your turn. You only have one assault phase. The effect is not cumulative.

 

And with the Force Weapon the rule on page 50 says select one opponent that has suffered an unsaved wound from the weapon per player turn so you cannot use the force weapon three times in one player turn.

 

But you can use three powers per player turn. So Move with wings, and Unleash Rage with The Sanguine Sword. Or if you would rather use your force weapon skip one of the three. Once you are in combat you cannot use wings so as long as combat lasts use all three available powers every player turn till all enemy are dead.

[Looted Monolith]

You roll to hit with a force weapon like normal

It ignores armor saves

If a model is wounded you roll psychic test if passed the victim suffers instant death.

 

+ A model may split its attacks amongst multiple units

why couldn't mefiston Cause instant death to multiple targets?

 

Core Book- "The normal rules for using

psychic powers apply (remember that a psyker

may normally use only one power per turn)."

 

Well mefiston isn't like your normal psyker.

One hit one kill

[JamesI]

There are precedents for using the same power more than once. Chaos can cast Gift of Chaos more than once a turn, and Warptime is given as an example of one you could cast more than once but why would you want to.

 

Mephiston can cast Wings more than once if someone dispels it when he casts it is my opinion.

 

There has been a lengthy debate in the rules forum about this.

[teeef]

There are precedents for using the same power more than once. Chaos can cast Gift of Chaos more than once a turn, and Warptime is given as an example of one you could cast more than once but why would you want to.

 

Mephiston can cast Wings more than once if someone dispels it when he casts it is my opinion.

 

There has been a lengthy debate in the rules forum about this.

I suppose I should have said successfully used, as you could fail twice and end up using all three chances at using wings. Aside for rolling horribly there are also enemy psychers with hood or equivalent.

[teeef]

You roll to hit with a force weapon like normal

It ignores armor saves

If a model is wounded you roll psychic test if passed the victim suffers instant death.

 

+ A model may split its attacks amongst multiple units

why couldn't mefiston Cause instant death to multiple targets?

 

Core Book- "The normal rules for using

psychic powers apply (remember that a psyker

may normally use only one power per turn)."

 

Well mefiston isn't like your normal psyker.

One hit one kill

The Force Weapon rule – not the Psychic rules or Mephiston's rules/wargear/ability – is where the one victim per player turn language is found. So even though Mephiston is über his weapon is just a force sword and does not grant him any ability to over-ride the rule book.

[Red Fury]

Also: I disagree with Red Fury on the Force Weapon as the rule on page 50 says the Force Weapon may be used "against any one opponent that suffered an unsaved wound by the weapon in that player turn."

I think you are right here teeef, I'm an old BA player aka new to librarians. :cry:

 

I don't know how you could use wings three times in your turn. You only have one movement phase.

I don't know how you could use sang sword three times in your turn. You only have one assault phase. The effect is not cumulative.

I don't know how you could use unleash rage three times in your turn. You only have one assault phase. The effect is not cumulative.

And with the Force Weapon the rule on page 50 says select one opponent that has suffered an unsaved wound from the weapon per player turn so you cannot use the force weapon three times in one player turn.

 

But you can use three powers per player turn. So Move with wings, and Unleash Rage with The Sanguine Sword. Or if you would rather use your force weapon skip one of the three. Once you are in combat you cannot use wings so as long as combat lasts use all three available powers every player turn till all enemy are dead.

I think this is more of what the Op was asking. If you try and fail to use wings of sang, can you use your next power to try the same ability again? I think we are all agreeing that yes you can.

 

 

+ A model may split its attacks amongst multiple units

why couldn't mefiston Cause instant death to multiple targets?

That is what I was thinking of, but I don't think that is right.

 

-Fury

[kollar]

You roll to hit with a force weapon like normal

It ignores armor saves

If a model is wounded you roll psychic test if passed the victim suffers instant death.

 

+ A model may split its attacks amongst multiple units

why couldn't mefiston Cause instant death to multiple targets?

 

Core Book- "The normal rules for using

psychic powers apply (remember that a psyker

may normally use only one power per turn)."

 

Well mefiston isn't like your normal psyker.

One hit one kill

The Force Weapon rule – not the Psychic rules or Mephiston's rules/wargear/ability – is where the one victim per player turn language is found. So even though Mephiston is über his weapon is just a force sword and does not grant him any ability to over-ride the rule book.

 

I do not have the rulebook at hand, but I was under the impression that it read "a model which has suffered an unsaved wound", and it didn't limit it to once per turn, other than the normal Psyker restrictions, which Mephistion overrides anyway?

[Morticon]

Lets not quote half a rule gents ->

 

"The psyker may then take a psychic test to use the weapons power against one opponent..."

 

Meph can do that part 3 times.

 

Which would allow him to do the "against one opponent" against three different opponents if he wounded them (eg: a brood of fexes)

[Protector of Titan]

There's to much to quote so I won't bother. I'll admit I wasn't paying attention, between memory of the revised 4th edition and the new 5th edition, Mephiston doesn't have Might of Heroes.

 

Page 47 of the BA Codex:

Psyker: Mephiston knows the Sanguine Sword, Unleash Rage, and Wings of Sanguinius Psychic powers (descrips on page 63). He can use three Psychic powers each turn.

So he has the Sanguine Sword, Unleash Rage, and Wings of Sanuinius, which none of them make sense to use twice (successfully) in a turn (Player Turn as described in the 5th edition Rule Book page 9).

 

So in "my" player turn, I can move (using Wings, if I wish), shoot normally (or run), then assault with Unleash Rage & the Sanguine Sword.

Then in my "opponents" player turn, in the ensuing close combat, I can once again, use Unleash Rage & the Sanguine Sword. BUT, since I've only used two (2) psychic abilities, I could take the unsaved wound (minus invulnerable saves) with the added boost of the Force Weapon, if I pass the Psychic test.

 

I would call this case closed. :)

[Morticon]

Are we talking about the same thing, though?

 

I dont think anyone is debating that much.

 

I think the discussion is about (i think ><; ) using the same power multiple times assuming A: you fail, or B: in the case of FWs you have 2 or more multiwound models that have been wounded.

 

To which I refer to the post above yours.

[teeef]

Are we talking about the same thing, though?

 

I dont think anyone is debating that much.

 

I think the discussion is about (i think ><; ) using the same power multiple times assuming A: you fail, or B: in the case of FWs you have 2 or more multiwound models that have been wounded.

 

To which I refer to the post above yours.

Mort, not trying to debate but not sure I understand what you mean.

 

Page 50: Roll to hit and wound as normal, allowing any invulnerable saving throws the victim might have. The psyker may then take a Psychic test to use the weapon's power against any one opponent that suffered an unsaved wound by the weapon in that player turn.

 

Example: Mephiston, who in this player turn has not yet made/attempted any Psychic tests, is in an assault against a carnifex brood and causes one unsaved wound on each of the three models.

 

A, Mephiston may take a Psychic test to use the power on any one of the three Carnifex in that player turn.

 

B. Mephiston may take up to three Psychic tests to use the power on any one of the three Carnifex in that player turn.

 

C. Mephiston may take a Psychic test to use the power once on each of the three Carnifex in that player turn.

 

D. Mephiston may take a Psychic test to use the power three times. The power can be used on one, two or three of the Carnifex in that player turn.

 

E. Other. And if you choose E, please explain.

 

My reading of the rule leads me to believe that A and/or B are valid. Mephiston can make the tests but the Force Weapon will only work on one opponent in that player turn – 'any,' as used in the rule, meaning the player who controls Mephiston makes the choice.

 

I am not sure, or convinced my reading is right. I am trying to make sure I understand how it is played.

[Morticon]

Im currently of the belief A, B or C...or D actually for that matter.

 

My current thinking on this stems from the following flow of thought/reading:

 

1. Carny one, two and three take unsaved wounds.

2. Mephy (Pg 47 "He can use three psychic powers each turn") checks to see what powers are currently able to be cast at this time to him at this point in time.

3. FW rule- pg 50 " FW..confer to the wielder one additional psychic power" and "The psyker may then take a psychic test to use the weapons power against one opponent..."

4. So I use it. Lets say I kill Carnifex one.

5. Now, I am still able to use 2 psychic powers.

6. Step 2 again..Is the FW ability a psychic power? Yup? Continue with 3, 4 and 5 until you run out of powers or 'Fexs.

 

 

I feel that following this reading and this thought flow not only breaks no rules, it also falls into what has been permitted. (ie: number of psychic powers able to be cast and the definitions of what psychic powers are there.)

 

 

I hope that comes across as clearly as I'm trying to make it ><; In essence I feel that at the end of having successfully casted it once on one model, if we still have models that can be killed by the ability, the fact that its a power (and we can use 3 of them) is enough for me to keep going.

 

 

Also, as JamesI has mentioned, precedent has been set in the Chaos FAQ, and other than that i've not seen anything that has been able to sway me from thinking this yet.