Chapter master idea

[Xenofei]

So ive been thinking for some time of what would be a good character / model to use for a chapter master ( I Play angels sanguine) and ive always been a fan of a termie armored leader. but in our new dex there isnt really any respectable character we can really use in terminator armor. (Captain's just dont seem at all ...captain-y just a stat boosted sergeant) so i started thinkin of alternatives.

 

1. Play an allied army of grey knights just to use a Grand Master to represent a chapter master (nemesis weapon's almost a relic blade) termie armor and just not use his force weapon / powers.

 

2. this is the one im a lil more interested in, using Dante, but modeling him as a terminator (Since he has a 2+ sv and the invuln) . hed always be attached to a squad of termies so he cant move as jump infantry anyways. i know he wouldnt get the no scatter rule. was more interested in the idea of hit and run terminators and the idea of a shining golden terminator chapter master leading his 400+ pt retinue (i know its not an actual retinue...miss the old termie command squads) marchin across the field.

 

Lookin through the BRB and our rules i cant find a reason he cant attach to a squad of terminators and use Hit and run (3d6 moving termies anyone?) the fluff explantation being using there teleporters for short ranged "Hops" to keep a sense of mobility even in their heavy armor.

 

local game store is fairly relaxed guys and would probably be fine with the Jump infantry counts as termie

 

was wondering what you guys thought about it and was wonderin if you had any suggestions on how to model it. my only current idea is using a sanguinary guard helmet and bits on an assault termie with some deathwing parts.

 

thank you in advance brothers in blood.

[SamaNagol]

Captains just are stat boosted sergeants anyway.

 

/

 

Dante in a terminator unit wouldn't pose a problem as he has 2+/4++ armour and cannot sweeping advance with them. As long as you don't suddenly detach him from the terminators and have him bounce forward 12" then that's not going to cause a lot of issues. You can utilise his hit and run and also his deep strike with no scatter as well.

[Priest33]

hrm...I doubt terminators can use the hit and run rule. Since they cant sweeping advance how do you explain them hitting and running things?

[SamaNagol]

Nothing excludes them from using it, same as Shrike giving Terminators Fleet.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

if you are saying their hit and run is from their teleporters, then you could probably use the same argument for why you chapter master can move twice as fast, he's bounding forward with teleporter jumps.

[Brother Kovash]

Part of Dante's wargear is his jump pack, do you plan on including one anyway? I don't think that TDA can have jump packs at all, no matter what chapter you are playing.

 

As always, as long as you explain to your opponent what the model counts as before you start, then you should be fine.

[Xenofei]

Well i was plannin on just keepin em in the termie squad the whole time, and if hes ever out of the squad just runnin em on foot anyways so theres no problems, since when you have a jump pack you still have the option to run on foot (To avoid dangerous terrain in difficult for example).

 

and as for the no scatter samanagol his rules specifically say that a jump pack is needed for it, but it doesnt have that for the hit and run, which is one of the things that made me think of it.

 

anyways decided im gonna try it at some point, so whenever i end up modelin him ill post some pics.

[wookielips]

not to sound like debbie downer, but you are really crippling a model you paid over 200 points with to put on the table by not allowing him to both:

 

1. jump

2. no scatter DS

 

the hit and run termie idea is nice. but you are paying a lot while not using all of Dante's skill-set. one thing i noticed that you do not have included in your idea is a SP. be sure to put one (in termi armor of course) attached to the squad, you don't want ticky-tack armor save fails draggin dante down, much less his retinue, and FC would be very nice to have moving around with this unit.

 

maybe put the squad in a SR, so they can get to the target fast, then spend the rest of the game hitting and running all over creation wrecking units? i would actually recommend shootie termis, since assault ones are going to wipe anything they encounter in 2 assault phases, and you won't ever get to utilize hit and run to make them more effective.

 

dante

4 shooty termis, 1xHF, SP w termi armor

SR transport w ex-armor (TLAssCan/TLMM)

 

its pricey, but boy howdy will you cause havoc if you get them across the table safely. maybe a LR if you have a second LR already in your list, so your opponent will have multiple things to 'deal with'

[Xenofei]

well i had forgotten about the idea of a storm raven wookielips...thanks for pointin that out. been lookin for an excuse to use the thing

 

I had already planned to make em shooty termies cause...well i like em more personally. I dont know why just do. The idea of a Gun line of tactical marines with a squad of shooty termies holdin the middle while the assault troops flank has always been a favorite of mine.

 

anyways id been plannin on a SP with em anyways, which is pretty normal for me if i make a unit that costs over 300. one thing id been wonderin about and since it sort of pertains to this situation...

 

If an SP joins the squad, hes considered a member of it, and if dante is joined to it the entire unit gains hit and run. does this include the preist (And therefore any other independant character that joins like say a chaplain)

I didnt find anything in BRB (other then if a squad has it and is joined by one without, or a character has and joins a unit without it doesnt confer, but his is a special rule that confers it...) or codex that was specific, me and a freind seem to think he would get it, as hed be a part of the unit, THEN gaining hit and run. any clarifcation on that would be appreciated as well.

 

forgot to mention another reason behind usin dante is also so i can take sanguinary guard (probably 1 unit) then like 2 assault squads and 2 tactical squads. Im a rather troop heavy kinda guy :P and have my elite slots free for termies / preists.

 

but for the most part its just to have a model i can call my chapter master.

 

(edit, forgot a line oops)

[wookielips]

yes the SP would get HnR.

 

my real concern with the tenative list you have (or from what i can tell of it) is the threat index. a SR with dante, termi's and SP in it is going to be a MUCH higher priority target than anything else on the board. this means you really NEED to dump it contents by turn 2. termis and the SP wont have jump packs, and so cannot survive the SR being wrecked. i know you cannot plan for every game, but i feel like you really should plan for this. plus, once the termis are out, your opponent will probably ignore the SR, he's so worried about the mega-unit you just dropped in his line. which means the SR can be a nice gun platform while all your other guys get to do as you please.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

can you fit a termi squad, SP w/ TDA and dante into one SR? i would think that exceeds its capacity.

[Redo]

can you fit a termi squad, SP w/ TDA and dante into one SR? i would think that exceeds its capacity.

 

You are correct; it would exceed capacity. SR has a capacity of 12 models. Models in TDA count as 2. So 5 termies and a SP with TDA and the raven has reached its maxium infantry carrying capacity.

[Xenofei]

these are all just ideas so far not actual final lists.

 

The thread was about usin Dante with termies for hit and run, and adding in a SP. I have a land raider crusader i could use for it and if i did the Storm Raven idea, dante +5 termies in one, buy a 2nd with probably another termie squad in it with a SP attached, keep em together. the sheer firepower of 2 Storm ravens would be somethin fun to play with.

 

that way theres also not one individual unit to pick out as its a bit more spread out.

 

I also thought of the idea of Deepstriking them, as being the shooting terminators it wouldnt cripple them much, i could avoid the scatter by using my tactical squads in a rhino with a beacon. or even combat squad em put 5 tacs + an SP in a razorback with a beacon while their lascannon puts shots into enemy tanks.

[Morticon]

I really like the GKM counts as !

[wookielips]

deep strike them in, with dante and SP in termi armor attached. laugh when a ton of fire plinks off them.

 

may i suggest an armored thrust on one flank, then DS behind the flank they pull off of, to react to your turn 1 movement? putting that kind of hurt behind your enemy would be sick.

 

edit: just rethought this. dante's no scatter rule wont save termi's deep striking. too risky imo, without a beacon around. maybe DP 2xfuri's, and a locator on the turn 1 DP (since the locator has to be on the board for the termis to utilize it in turn 2)? baal x2, vindi x2, furix2, dante+SP+5 termis DS, and then RAS to get troops on the board? your opponent would be so concerned about the thrust from the bulk of your force, the elite hitman squad would wreck house.

[Xenofei]

I was gonna do the Grey Knight master Counts as, but dont i still need to have a standard HQ from my own codex before i can take an allied HQ? thats my only problem with it so far really ;\

[Xenofei]

So after much thought on the subject at work last night i ended up goin with the Grey Knight master as the stand in for my Chapter master. for a breif bit i wrote up on em (was plannin on printin it and puttin it in my codex when im done)

 

Uzziel of the Dual Fates, Chapter Master of the Angels Sanguine..................205 Points

------ WS BS S T W I Ld Sv

Uzziel 5 5 4 4 3 5 10 2+/4+

 

Wargear ------ Special Rules

●Blood oath of Terra ------●Undying Will

●Fury of Sanguine -------●Fearless

●Terminator Armor -------●Relentless

●Iron Halo --------●Independent Character

 

 

Blood oath of Terra. This is an ancient weapon passed down through the generations of Angels sanguine. This Mighty mace stands as tall as a marine and is capable of reducing most oppenents to heaps in a single blow. Its said that the weapon itself was built around a vial of sanguinius's blood which resides in the grip of this Revered relic. A disciplined mind of a Scion of Sanguinius can tap into this hidden power to unleash a blow of frightening effects.

 

The Blood Oath is a Master crafted (Single re-roll to hit per turn) Relic weapon that confers a +2 Strength bonus to its weilder, and can make a Coup De Grace attack that once a turn Uzziel may take a Psychic test upon wounding an enemy, If the test is passed the target is slain outright.

 

Fury Sanguine. Is a modified Storm bolter carried on Uzziel's armor. Using a Unique mineral found on ________(couldnt remember their home planets name). The effects of this round kept in a stable flux inside the shell give it excellent penetrating power against the effects of warp shields and force field generators as well as mundane armors.

 

Fury Sanguine is a Storm bolter with the following Profile. Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against its attacks.

Range Strength AP Type

24” 4 4 Assault 2.

 

Undying will. On a turn where Uzziel is reduced to 0 wounds instead of removing him place him on his side. Roll a D6 at the start of the next turn: On a 6 Stand Uzziel back up with 1 wound. Any other roll remove him as a casualty.

 

(The Above rules are for using a Grey Knight Grand master as a Chapter master of the angels sanguine. Bionics, master crafted weapon, Icon of the just, and Psycannon Bolts have been factored into his price.)

 

Uzziel may take a retinue of the following

Sanguine Ancients............................................................................................

.......................135 Points

 

------- WS BS S T W I Ld Sv

Ancient 5 4 4 4 1 4 10 2+/5+

 

Unit Composition

● 3 Terminators

Unit Type

● Infantry

Wargear ------ Special Rules------ Options

●Relic Blades------ ●Retinue ------- ● May add up to 6 additional ancients....42 pts each.

●Storm Bolters------- ●Fearless

●Terminator Armor------ ●Relentless

 

 

Currently workin on makin my own expanded fluff for each.

 

(Decided to make my accidental double post productive )

[Morticon]

Very, very cool. Its times like this that I really appreciate GWs counts as policy!

[Oloff Hammeraxe]

Another idea, if you want to stay with one Codex, is to use Tycho as your Chapter Master. Your logic with using Dante would actually translate better with Tycho, in my opinion. He wouldn't have extra rules you couldn't use, he's cheaper, he still has the 2+4++ save, offers an army wide rule which our captains lack, and would go well with a squad of termies.

[wookielips]

tycho is AWFUL. you leadership bomb him and every marine runs off the table after 25% squad casualties. oh H3LLS naw.

[Oloff Hammeraxe]

tycho is AWFUL. you leadership bomb him and every marine runs off the table after 25% squad casualties. oh H3LLS naw.

 

 

Ach, you're right. I just read his Leadership sharing rule, and it says that everyone uses his Ld score. They have no option, and that's laaaame! If it said that they MAY use his score, it would be quite different!

[Sanguinarian]

Dante with 4xSS/TH Honour Guard (forget the Blood Champion downgrade) would hit harder than a Termy Squad without flubbing Dante's HnR, plus has the built-in Sanguinary Novitiate to give them all FC & FnP. Add a Terminator Libby with Shield, 5 Tactical Termies and a Furioso on an SR. Can you say BOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!! I knew that you could. ;)

[Sanguinarian]

tycho is AWFUL. you leadership bomb him and every marine runs off the table after 25% squad casualties. oh H3LLS naw.

What are you talking about? SMs never run off a table unless they are escorted by an enemy model within 6" and never allowed to ATSKNF. This has only ever happened once to my Libby back in 3rd Ed. when 10 measly Necron Warriors couldn't get whittled down enough to allow him to rally.

 

Am I missing something? In 7 games against over 20 Dark Lances and 10+ Power Weapons I've never fallen back once to casualties with our base Ld8, let alone Tycho's 10. Or are you saying there are times where we 'should' fall back and his high Ld10 would rarely allow it? ;)

[Oloff Hammeraxe]

tycho is AWFUL. you leadership bomb him and every marine runs off the table after 25% squad casualties. oh H3LLS naw.

What are you talking about? SMs never run off a table unless they are escorted by an enemy model within 6" and never allowed to ATSKNF. This has only ever happened once to my Libby back in 3rd Ed. when 10 measly Necron Warriors couldn't get whittled down enough to allow him to rally.

 

Am I missing something? In 7 games against over 20 Dark Lances and 10+ Power Weapons I've never fallen back once to casualties with our base Ld8, let alone Tycho's 10. Or are you saying there are times where we 'should' fall back and his high Ld10 would rarely allow it? :)

 

 

He's referring to the fact that if someone uses an ability to lower Tycho's Ld, his rules force everyone on the table to use his diminished leadership. Like if you're fighting Nids, and the deathydeath bug thingy stares him down, suddenly you run the likely risk of running a Ld. 7 Space Marine army.

[Pcm979]

Then don't run him against armies with that ability, but that doesn't mean he's awful for everything. He just has strengths and weaknesses, like every unit should.