Power Fists

[Brother Caleb]

Does a PF augment every attack made by the model or just one? This came up and I was pretty sure it effected every attack, but I couldn't seem to muster any support from the rules other than the PF entry doesn't specifically limit its benefits to one attack.

[greatcrusade08]

Its every attack, i cant remember the rule but its something like "all attacks must be made with a special ccw if the model is armed with one".

 

Im sure some rules buffs will give you page and title

[thade]

Yes, all of the model's attacks are resolved with the PF. It works like this:

 

You select the weapon that the model will use for the phase (in this case, the model selects a PF). His strength is doubled (for a marine that's S8) for the purposes of his melee attacks when using the PF.

 

How many attacks does he get? See page 37, BRB. He gets the number of attacks listed in his profile, plus any applicable bonuses (e.g. if he charged this round, +1 A). Again, he's going to have at least two attacks (only vets or better can wield power fists in marine armies).

 

He's got two attacks in his profile, nothing in the rules says he loses any attacks for using a special weapon (a PF in this case), and the PF rule says his attacks are resolved at double strength. All of them. <3

[SeattleDV8]

Agreed on all points Thade.

[Legatus]

Again, he's going to have at least two attacks (only vets or better can wield power fists in marine armies).

That is mostly true, though Space Wolves and Black Templars can give power fists to a few rank and file Marines. Those only have 1 Attack in their profile.

 

For the general rules for special close combat weapons, see page 42 in the Rulebook. Here is one excerp:

 

A normal and a special weapon

These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, benefit from the special weapon's bonuses.

 

Power fists (...) are an exception to this. Only a second powerfist (...) can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons.

 

 

Example: A Space Marine Captain has 3 Attacks in his profile. If he is equipped with a powerweapon and a bolt pistol he get's an additional +1 Attack for being equipped with two close combat weapons. All of his attacks (usually 4, but when he charges he gets another +1) use the rules of the powerweapon.

A Captain with a power fist and a bolt pistol would not get the +1 Attack for having two weapons, because the power fist is a special case. He would only have his basic 3 Attacks, but all of the Attacks still would use the rules of the power fist.

[Kronk]

Again, he's going to have at least two attacks (only vets or better can wield power fists in marine armies).

 

In the standard and newer codex, yes. The Black Templars can take a powerfist in their crusader squads, sword brethren squad, and assault squads, and their profile only allows 1 swing.

 

Otherwise, I agree with everything else Thade said.

[thade]

Interesting; I had no idea SW or BT could give PF to non-Vets. @_@

[Grey Mage]

Interesting; I had no idea SW or BT could give PF to non-Vets. @_@

Yes, they can- BTs dont have veterans in their squads... the powerfist replaces a heavy weapon slot. SWs on the other hand can put one on a grey hunter, but its actually cheaper to buy a wolf gaurd instead and put the powerfist on him- 43pts instead of 45.

 

GW has had some very, interesting, design decisions lately.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Interesting; I had no idea SW or BT could give PF to non-Vets. @_@

Yes, they can- BTs dont have veterans in their squads... the powerfist replaces a heavy weapon slot. SWs on the other hand can put one on a grey hunter, but its actually cheaper to buy a wolf gaurd instead and put the powerfist on him- 43pts instead of 45.

 

GW has had some very, interesting, design decisions lately.

38 instead of 40 you mean. 43 is the cost of a wolfguard in terminator armor with a fist, i don know what you were thinking 45 from.

[Grey Mage]

Interesting; I had no idea SW or BT could give PF to non-Vets. @_@

Yes, they can- BTs dont have veterans in their squads... the powerfist replaces a heavy weapon slot. SWs on the other hand can put one on a grey hunter, but its actually cheaper to buy a wolf gaurd instead and put the powerfist on him- 43pts instead of 45.

 

GW has had some very, interesting, design decisions lately.

38 instead of 40 you mean. 43 is the cost of a wolfguard in terminator armor with a fist, i don know what you were thinking 45 from.

It is in fact what I get for posting before breakfast.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Interesting; I had no idea SW or BT could give PF to non-Vets. @_@

Yes, they can- BTs dont have veterans in their squads... the powerfist replaces a heavy weapon slot. SWs on the other hand can put one on a grey hunter, but its actually cheaper to buy a wolf gaurd instead and put the powerfist on him- 43pts instead of 45.

 

GW has had some very, interesting, design decisions lately.

38 instead of 40 you mean. 43 is the cost of a wolfguard in terminator armor with a fist, i don know what you were thinking 45 from.

It is in fact what I get for posting before breakfast.

Ah, you wanted a 45 egg omlette for breakfast, I've been there before. Makes it very hard to think of less delicious numbers.

[thade]

Interesting; I had no idea SW or BT could give PF to non-Vets. @_@

Yes, they can- BTs dont have veterans in their squads... the powerfist replaces a heavy weapon slot. SWs on the other hand can put one on a grey hunter, but its actually cheaper to buy a wolf gaurd instead and put the powerfist on him- 43pts instead of 45.

 

GW has had some very, interesting, design decisions lately.

38 instead of 40 you mean. 43 is the cost of a wolfguard in terminator armor with a fist, i don know what you were thinking 45 from.

It is in fact what I get for posting before breakfast.

Ah, you wanted a 45 egg omlette for breakfast, I've been there before. Makes it very hard to think of less delicious numbers.

 

So true.

[Acebaur]

I was wondering why this thread had kept getting posted in. We have shifted from Powerfists to egg omletes!

 

 

One thing that is nice, while our Crusaders only get 1 attack with their Powerfists, that one attack hits almost as often as a regular marine's two attakcs do. Thanks to AAC which is by far the best vow we have we get re-rolls to hit.

 

Also our Sword Brethren can get 2 attacks base with a fist. They can take Termie honors for 10 points and gain that extra attack

[thade]

I was wondering why this thread had kept getting posted in. We have shifted from Powerfists to egg omletes!

 

 

One thing that is nice, while our Crusaders only get 1 attack with their Powerfists, that one attack hits almost as often as a regular marine's two attakcs do. Thanks to AAC which is by far the best vow we have we get re-rolls to hit.

 

Also our Sword Brethren can get 2 attacks base with a fist. They can take Termie honors for 10 points and gain that extra attack

 

Terminator Honours are now built into our Veterans in the newer codecies, which is why I was surprised that a non-Vet, non-Terminator Honours-bearing marines could wield a power fist in the new SW codex. I was under the apparently mistaken impression that only veterans had the training to wield a fist. Learn something new every day!

[Legatus]

Grey Hunters or Blood Claws have been able to get a few special close combat weapons since their 3rd Edition Codex (since 2nd Edition, actually, but Codex Assault Marines were able to get such weapons back then as well). Black Templar squads could get a few special close combat weapons since their 3rd Edition Codex Armageddon army list as well. Only for Codex Marines (and the Chapters following them closely) these weapons were restricted to Veteran Sergeants or Veterans. I cannot for the life of me understand why Berserkers cannot get one or two special close combat weapons per squad (other than the Champion). I would have liked to see Assault Marines get that option in the 5th Codex Space Marines as well (as I had been hoping back for the 4th Edition Codex). Instead, Codex Marines now have "Veteran Assault Squads" as well.

 

 

2nd Edition:

 

- Codex Chapters -

 

Sergeants could get special CCW (Veteran Sergeants had better stats and could get one equipment card).

 

Veterans could not get special CCWs. They were just like Tactical Marines with better stats (WS 5, BS 5, Ini 5, Ld 9).

 

Assault Marines could each get special CCWs. Back then they were basically a Chapter's dedicated assault unti. They were not the "basic/weak" assault unit with several more elite units that were superior. (seriously, 5 different jump pack Assault units for Blood Angels is ridiculous.)

 

 

- Space Wolves -

 

Every Grey Hunter, Blood Claw, Long Fang and Wolf Guard could get special CCWs.

 

 

- Chaos Space Marines -

 

Every Chaos Space Marine, CSM Veteran, Khorne Berserker and Thousand Sons Marine (!) could get special CCWs. Plague Marines and Noise Marines had more restricted equipment.