I suck...!

[Coverfire]

Okay,

 

I have played on and off since 2nd edition. Since the new codex has been released, I have not been able to find

my niche. My most enjoyable games were when the Eye of Terror campaign was released, I used a Wulfen Lord

with Lightning Claw and Stormshield, leading 5 Storm Claws Bikers with Wolf Guard Pack Leader.

 

x2 Grey Slayers, x2 Fenrisian Wolves and Meltagun Long Fangs with a Rune Priest to gate them.

 

When the new codex was released, and I saw Thunderwolves I saw their potiential.

 

After a dozen or so games, I feel I am not really progressing well. I only won a couple of those battles and they were

early on. My losses have mostly been close (except against a chaos player who I am to play against tomorrow) and

I am losing heart.

 

My lists haven't been terrible, I just haven't been able to capitalise on my opponent focusing on my Thunderwolves.

 

I need to get back to basics,

 

I thought the best way to do so might be to make a Troop heavy list, with Dreadnought and Land Speeder Support.

 

Help me rediscover my beloved army.

 

 

The Choas player that I am to face tomorrow, favours Kharne with a Large squad of Bezerkers, he doesn't have any vehicles (unless he borrows them off me) to speak of. I just need something to counter his Kharne squad.

[Godhead]

How many points do you play?

 

What have your lists been like?

 

What has been your strat with those lists?

 

What have you played against?

 

What have you struggled with in your battles?

 

I think those are some good questions to answer in order to try to help you.

 

I had a few losses and a lot of draws early on as well. I am doing much much much better now, but it did take some time to figure out what works for you.

[S. Bloodhowl]

I'm a bit confused as to what you want us to do here, are you wanting us to help you write a good list? help you find a list that suits you? help you get an army that plays the way you like? or something else entirely.

 

PS if its one of the list options abov e then can you post your current list please

[Grey Mage]

Back to basics?

 

It doesnt get more basic then taking 3-4 grey hunter packs.

 

Strip them down of toys, just use their special weapon options and a SCCW, and a rhino. I reccommend plasma hunter packs in order to kep them flexable.

 

Supplement them with a Long Fang pack with missile launchers and lascannons- basic anti-tank work to support your GHs.

 

Toss in a Rune Priest with living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane for a bit of fun, and back him up with 5 WG... givem a toy each, heavy on PWs.

 

If you have any points left, round it up with a Landspeeder for some extra speed and AT firepower.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

 The Choas player that I am to face tomorrow, favours Kharne with a Large squad of Bezerkers, he doesn't have any vehicles (unless he borrows them off me) to speak of. I just need something to counter his Kharne squad.

 

GM has well described SW 'back to basics', so I'm going to focus on this chaos/Khârn bit as this is something a speciality - Khârn is the most regular opposing character I face. The real key is to either a) shoot him - vindicators on big bezerker squads work wonders, as do missile launchers and plasma...or... :) Get a combat pack to take him on pound for pound - instant deathing him is fairly simple (if) you can survive his attacks - Wolf lord ss/th will do the trick for example. He is annoyingly immune to JoTWW as that would be fairly handy  :) . Don't charge him with anything short of mass numbers, and never with dreadnoughts which he cuts through so easily with his 2d6 pen. In short, shoot if you can to cut down most of his bodyguard before even considering charging in. I have killed him most commonly with a...wait for it... meltagun!

 

If you opponent isn't using vehicles then the key will be isolating and annihilating whole squads of fearless troops - 3 or 4 packs of rhino plasma hunters would be perfect for the task, backed by some long fangs or speeders. A very solid and easy to use force which should silence this chaos force pretty quick.

 

Best of luck.

[Coverfire]

I think my main problem is that I am not using my troops to their full potential.

 

I made the following list to help me learn how to use them properly.

 

For an 1850 List I have:

 

Rune Priest #1 - LL, TW, WTT

 

Rune Priest #2 - LL, MH, WTT, CotS, MBs

 

Lone Wolf #1 - TDA, CF, SS, x2 Fen Wolves

 

Lone Wolf #2 - TDA, CF, SS, x2 Fen Wolves

 

GH #1 - x2 PG, Razorback - Las/TW PG

 

GH #2 - x2 PG, Razorback - Las/TW PG

 

GH #3 - x2 MG, PF, WB, MotW, Rhino

 

GH #4 - x2 MG, PF, WB, MoTW, Rhino

 

Land Speeder #1 - HB, TML

 

Land Speeder #2 - HB, TML

 

Vindicator #1

 

Vindicator #2

 

Long Fangs - x2 Missle Launchers, Rhino

 

I just released I am over by 45 points so I will trim it shortly

[Grey Mage]

Drop the LFs rhino- they wont be using it, and putting them in their is a HUGE liability.

 

Then, Id drop the MotWs from your two rhino mounted squads, and the MBs from your Rune Priest #2, and snag a third LF with a ML.

[Coverfire]

Drop the LFs rhino- they wont be using it, and putting them in their is a HUGE liability.

 

Then, Id drop the MotWs from your two rhino mounted squads, and the MBs from your Rune Priest #2, and snag a third LF with a ML.

 

I thought the 2nd Rune Priest needed different weapons to the first?

[Grey Mage]

Drop the LFs rhino- they wont be using it, and putting them in their is a HUGE liability.

 

Then, Id drop the MotWs from your two rhino mounted squads, and the MBs from your Rune Priest #2, and snag a third LF with a ML.

 

I thought the 2nd Rune Priest needed different weapons to the first?

Different wargear, different psychic powers, no saga repeats *outside special characters*.

 

The CotS works for the wargear, youve got different powers, and neither has a saga... so your golden.

[Sutr]

GH squad 1 and 2 are most likely wrong since you can only have 2 special weapons if they number 10 models exactly and they're on razorbacks wich can only transport 6 models top. unless you're expecting them to footslog that is on the RB side

[TiguriusX]

Are you having trouble with a list or is it adjusting to current rules?

 

How are your losses occurring?

-Are you losing objective matches because you can only contest and not capture them?

-Are you getting wiped out against certain types of units/opponents?

[Coverfire]

I having mostly been using Thunderwolves.

 

In most of my losses, I dominate the first half of the game but lack of numbers (and skill) mean I end up

loosing. I feel my biggest problem is knowing how to captalise with the fact that my opponent is trying to do

his best to kill my Thunderwolves (which are his biggest fear).

 

I feel that if I can learn how to use my troops properly, he'll learn to fear them just as much.

 

My Thunderwolves need other targets to draw fire, but I need to learn how to use the Thunderwolves to draw

fire and win the day.

 

I tried using Swiftclaws, but with minimal success.

 

Memorable fails were,

 

1. Charging a unit of Slaanesh and my opponent had a guarded HQ with Slaanesh which counter-attacked into

and killed the Wolf Priest leading the Swiftclaws with meant they lost their Preferred Enemy and were chased off.

 

2. Thunderwolves charged with interweaved units of Orks - Gretchin, Boyz and Nobz. After two dismal rounds of

combat I reinforce the Thunderwolves (who end up chasing off the Orks, assisted with a Podded Dreadnought)

leaving two Grey Hunter packs exposed to a deff rolling battle wagon. I lost the Grey Hunters in a single turn due to

the Deff Roller and an Ork truck with Flamer Boyz. Everything Else was badly out of posistion. Could have just been

bad luck but that list just didn't have enough in it to make it competitive, I did have Long Fangs but do you think they

could even hit an ork truck?!?

[TiguriusX]

I having mostly been using Thunderwolves.

 

In most of my losses, I dominate the first half of the game but lack of numbers (and skill) mean I end up

loosing. I feel my biggest problem is knowing how to captalise with the fact that my opponent is trying to do

his best to kill my Thunderwolves (which are his biggest fear).

 

I feel that if I can learn how to use my troops properly, he'll learn to fear them just as much.

 

My Thunderwolves need other targets to draw fire, but I need to learn how to use the Thunderwolves to draw

fire and win the day.

 

I tried using Swiftclaws, but with minimal success.

 

Memorable fails were,

 

1. Charging a unit of Slaanesh and my opponent had a guarded HQ with Slaanesh which counter-attacked into

and killed the Wolf Priest leading the Swiftclaws with meant they lost their Preferred Enemy and were chased off.

 

2. Thunderwolves charged with interweaved units of Orks - Gretchin, Boyz and Nobz. After two dismal rounds of

combat I reinforce the Thunderwolves (who end up chasing off the Orks, assisted with a Podded Dreadnought)

leaving two Grey Hunter packs exposed to a deff rolling battle wagon. I lost the Grey Hunters in a single turn due to

the Deff Roller and an Ork truck with Flamer Boyz. Everything Else was badly out of posistion. Could have just been

bad luck but that list just didn't have enough in it to make it competitive, I did have Long Fangs but do you think they

could even hit an ork truck?!?

 

This is a good post. Gives us something to work with!

 

I am about to head off for work so I will give you a quick reply but I'm sure others will follow up as well

 

-If the WP is vital to your SC attack you can protect him if you charge. Rules on p.49 require an IC to be heroic and move into combat first when assaulted or piling in. They don't control his movement on the charge. You can move the SCs first and "try" to keep WP from combat.

 

-TWC are vulnerable to spam...hordes of bothersome orks win due to attrition. If you were tarpitted for 2 turns the ork won even if he lost the combat.

 

TWC are cavalry and have the speed to hit on their terms. Think of them as a scalpel. What weapons are your TWC using? Most people put a TH for S10. You need to have target priority for them. However, if your opponent is focusing half his army on them it frees up your GHs etc. to mop up the other stuff. If you hadn't reinforced TWC you could have hammered something else with Dread + GHs while the ork moved too many resources to stop TWC.

[rodgambit]

Are you building your TWC differently for proper wound allocation?

 

If your playing 1850 I'd go with at least 3 troops, maybe 4. Personally, I'd drop the lone wolves and the troops to 9 men and go with a pack leader with combi-melta and powerfist to lead your troops. If your playing demons and you want to run 2 rune priest, go with tempest wrath on at least one. Long fangs with high strength weapons also work great against demon armies. If your playing chaos marines then plasma and ML squads work great.

 

 

The 1500 list I'm running today for 13th Co. has 3 troops, 1 full pack of fen wolves, a WGBL on a TWM, rune priest, 4 pack leaders and a full scout squad. Just to give you an idea since you used to run 13th also.

[Phodos]

For my hunter packs I like to use 9 GH with meltagun, PW/MOTW(one or the other) and a wolf standard with attached WG with combi-melta and PF/TH, and then stuff them in a rhino.

 

The wolf standard is my favorite piece of wargear for the wolves :wink: only failing armor saves on a roll of a 2 or a failed reroll on top of hits/wounds rerolling 1's as well almost always saves 1-2 of my models and kills an additional 1-2 of my opponent's if my unit is still at full strength when I use it.

 

A good friend of mine uses Khârn and I usually try to avoid CC with his unit until it's been thinned out some with shooting, Longfangs squads with either 3x ML 2x LC, or 5x ML, depending on if you want to have the str9 shots or not is the way to go for taking out all sorts of targets with relative ease(taking out an opponent's Nob/Obliterator/Zoanthrope with instant death is a depressing things for most opponents)

[Stormbrow II]

From the sound of it you're using the TWC as a hammer and not a broom. They simply don't have the WS or numbers to be able to go through all kinds of enemies so maybe you should consider hanging them back for a turn and combi-charge with the Grey Hunters so that you force your opponent to put attacks onto the Troops choice allowing you to mop up with the TWC.

 

I was using them aggressively for a while and they kept coming a cropper against tough units despite any wound allocation shenanigans I was trying to pull off. In the end I learned to keep them held back for another turn even if it mean that my Rhinos were being demolished in return. Their monstrous movement distance lets them hit pretty much anywhere on the board and when teamed up with GH or other units of TWC they tend to maul whatever they hit, bar dedicated combat units (like TAS, Nob Bikers, Seer Council) but that's what your fire support should be for.

 

Loading up with gear is a non-starter - you need numbers more than toys to make sure you get there and with a Shield costing over half of adding a guy to the unit you're better off with the extra wounds than a 3+ save, especially when you should be getting 4+ saves from cover anyway. A unit of 3 with Bolter, Pistol and Fist/Hammer or 4 with Bolter, Pistol, Melta Bombs, Fist/Hammer is loads. Just run 2 of the larger squads or 3 of the smaller squads and something should get there intact.

 

Looking at your list and you need more firepower - the Vindicators are useless tank shocking pieces of :wink: when they suffer a single weapon destroyed result so you might consider Long Fangs instead.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Don't put all your resources into one unit. It is probably the hardest thing to remember but it really is that important.

 

Honestly I would recommend the very first thing you do in any list,is to take two full 10 man GH squads in Rhinos. Build them to be able to take on most targets,if not all. My personal recommendation would be to give one set 2 Meltaguns,Powerweapon,Wulfen,Standard. And the other 2 Plasmaguns,Powerfist,Wulfen,and Standard.

 

At 1850...I would definitely take your next step,and do two squads of Long Fangs. One with 2 Lascannons/3 missile launchers,and the other with 3 Missile Launchers/2 Heavy Bolters. That will give you a solid fire base to depend on,and will do well against Horde armies and Marine Equivalent armies. Use your Long Fangs by putting them into cover where they have good line of sight and line of effect.

 

All told this should be around a 900 point basis to build the rest of your army around. You can replace the 10th member of the squad with a wolf guard,though you lose the 2nd combo weapon,it will be slightly cheaper if you go the Combi weapon and Powerfist route for your Wolfguard,and Power weapon route for your grey hunters. Its up to you really on how you manage that. Having unupgraded Wolfguard on your long fang packs mean that you can soak up a wound with them easily.

[Coverfire]

I had a battle today against Dark Angels, unfortunately the camera I borrowed was out of charge so

I can't give you visual aides.

 

My list was much like the one listed above.

My Army composition was HQ x2, Elite x2, Troop x4, Fast Attack x2 and Heavy Support x3

 

Battle: Pitched

Mission: Annhilation

 

I had been expecting Chaos, but he borrowed Dark Angels off his nephew, I did ask for a list from

my opponent, but we both forgot after the battle.

 

He was using,

Azreal leading x5 Terminators (x4 Lightning Claws, x1 Assault Cannon, Chainfist)

Ven Dreadnought (twin linked lascannon)

Ravenwing Bikers lead with an Apothecary (I think) and with a Land Speeder in the squad

that was bad, I had never come across that before; and this squad drew the majority of my attention

for most of the game.

Maybe 3 Troops - All split into Combat Squads and deployed too far apart so I couldn't gain the kill points.

1 Devastator squad.

 

I was force to deploy first, and was reasonably happy with my deployment except on the left flank I had deployed

my 2 rhinos in front of a vinidcator on the edge of the field and hard up aginst terrain so I could ride up and give it protection .

During his deployment he set up his Ven Dread, Devastators, 2 combat squads and the Terminators in a building

opposite (his is deployment zone).

 

On what would turn out to be a very bad idea (as I could afford dozer blades) I drove the vinidcator inland so that

I didn't get trapped by a burnt out Rhino in the way, also if I drove into the building I could hammer his building and

get to protection of cover when he shot at me. I rolled a one. It did nothing throughout the rest of the game.

 

The two Rhinos try the same tactic, successfully, in an attempt to lure his dreanought or temrinators closer and I think

he might have been in ranged during the battle, but not being sure and not wanting to blow the opportunity I kept quiet.

 

Mistake #1 - I thought you could move a Vinidcator 6" and shoot the demolisher cannon.

 

Rules Question: If a Character in Power Armour or Runic Armour (as the case may be) is with Terminators, Can

he sweeping advance? Or is he unable as Terminators cannot and he is stuck with them.

 

Rules Question: Same unit above; Assaults "Out of Cover", do the terminators fight at Int 1?

 

Rules Question: Same unit again; Assaults out of cover and Azrael has Frag Grenades is he the only one

that benefits from them?

 

Rule Question: Can Immbolised walkers and Landspeeders etc turn and face to shoot?

 

Combat Squads: My opponent was using combat squads on his biker squad to split fight and then when I assaulted

him he used them as a single unit again. I think he might have screwed that one up?

 

Long story short: I lost, 9 Kills points to 3 kill points.

 

I wasted his Bikers with an HQ and Land Speeder, Ven Dread. At least 1 Combat squad and a another was left with

1 guy. I had lost 1 Vindicator, 1 Rhino, 2 Rune Priest, 2 Typhoons, 4 Grey Hunters, and 2 Lone Wolves.

 

It was a hard fought battle, and the final tally doesn't really reflect that, as the majority of the losses were in the final two turns of the game, and up to the last turn it was still anyones battle.

[SamaNagol]

You can move a Vindicator 6" and shoot it.

[Coverfire]

You can move a Vindicator 6" and shoot it.

 

I thought you could, but couldn't find anything in the book - though not suggesting anything about my opponent

but he was the one who looked... and it was too early in the game to fight over the rules.

[TiguriusX]

Mistake #1 - I thought you could move a Vinidcator 6" and shoot the demolisher cannon.

From my understanding of the rules you are correct

 

The only limitation is you can't fire the Demolisher and defensive weapons because of Ordnance rules on p.58

 

 

Rules Question: If a Character in Power Armour or Runic Armour (as the case may be) is with Terminators, Can

he sweeping advance? Or is he unable as Terminators cannot and he is stuck with them.

IC is stuck with unit. Only time he is allowed to separate is the movement phase. Until then he is treated as a part of their unit. TDA prevents sweeping advance.

 

I believe that means he is prevented from sweeping advance

 

There is a cheating counter argument I can see using multi-assault on p.41 but the IC rules specifically attach the IC to his unit after attacks are done. So he wouldn't be considered a separate unit for the purpose of sweeping advance

[Grey Mage]

A normal vehicle can fire 1 gun while moving 6", the vindicator is no exception- ordnance can fire on the move.

 

Once you stop rolling attacks hes a full member of the squad again- and you move at the slowest speed of the unit.

 

Azrael is the only one who benefits from the grenades in that case.

 

And no, they cannot pivot- its movement. It doesnt count towards shooting, but its movement none the less.

[Coverfire]

Thank you... There are always little rulings that come up in the battles against this one opponent it seems...

 

But we're getting there... It is good because I can get a better understanding myself but it can slow the battle

down so much as well

[Grey Mage]

Slow is fine- you know, slow and steady wins the race and all?

 

Alacrity comes with experiance- your relearning the system, its ok to take your time... this isnt a tournament.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Even if it is a tournament,It is perfectly fine to check rules if you are confused.