Astartes Cavalry

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I am creating a celtic space marine chapter and I am using the Space Wolf codex to represent them. One of the great new units of the Space Wolves is the Thunder Wolf Cavalry, now I would love to use this unit in my chapter but of course I can't use Thunder Wolves as 1 my chapter isn't a successor of the SW and 2 there aren't giant wolves running around on my chapters homeworld.

 

This led me to do some searching on some alternative "mounts" players have used to represent TWC in their counts as SW armies. I have seen a few lions and some bears and the occasional reptile. One player even used the new WHFB Orc boar boyz for his chapter, while all of these are great there was one conversion (that while not ment to represent TWC) that for me fits the bill. In my search I came across the 13th company cavalry on Scibor Miniatures. The sculptur used a combination of Brettonian horses, SW bits and green stuff to make mounted Space Wolves.

 

I really like this idea and posted it in the thread about my chapter but I figure it will get more feedback as its own post. The general idea is that the inhabitants of my chapters homeworld brought horses with them to their planet and over the passage of time the horses evolved (or mutated) into a larger, stronger breed better able to survive in the planets harsh environment (the same way as abhumans). This combined with some selective breeding and genetic enhancement by the astartes would create a great mount for a space marine.

 

Now the problems I am having with this are 1 what would be the best model be to use for the horse, either Brettonian (what I am leaning towards) or Chaos Knights and 2 justifying why the chapter would use horses over bikes. The 13th company mounts were made useing green stuff which was fairly simple. The barding was covered in chainmail and they had more futuristic looking armor added on. I am unsure how the Chaos Knight horses compare in size but to me it seems like they would need more work than the Brettonian chargers.

 

As for why the chapter uses them I have had a few suggestions, either the chapter fights in very very difficult terrain unsuited for bikes (except that astartes bikes are beastly and adapted to almost all environments), the chapter has limted access to fuel ( my chapter has good relations with the adeptus mechanicum so while they are not technologically dependant and superior they do have access to advanced war gear) and last of all tradition. I believe that tradition is the best reason as to why a chapter would.

 

Well has anyone done this? general feedback on the idea?

[Ferrata]

One of the great new units of the Space Wolves is the Thunder Wolf Cavalry

I would beg to differ. I would chose words to describe them along the lines of stupid, idiotic and...well, I am going to stop and play nice :P

 

either the chapter fights in very very difficult terrain unsuited for bikes but chapters do not always fight on the same terrain time after time. They have specialisms, but it does not mean they only fight in that manner. One battle they could be in extremely difficult terrain, the next they could be fighting n a planet wide car park :D

 

the chapter has limted access to fuel but fuel can be found everywhere. And, if we assume the Astartes bikes are similar to Rhinos and Guard tanks, they can be run on anything that burns.

 

last of all tradition. I believe that tradition is the best reason as to why a chapter would. but what tradition could they have to forsake bikes. The Dark Angels were originally formed from knights who did go around on horseback, and they didn't continue.

 

Besides not use them (which is the best idea ;), the most simplistic would be not to explain why the chapter uses them. What a lot of DIYers fail to remember is that the force you make does not need represent the average force your chapter deploys. It could be that on this one battle (the one your army is) the normal bikers have had their bikes destroyed and have mounted local animals instead. It is weak, but I feel it doesn't sacrafice the character of a chapter and sells it cheaply to a poor idea put out by GW :D

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

One of the great new units of the Space Wolves is the Thunder Wolf Cavalry

I would beg to differ. I would chose words to describe them along the lines of stupid, idiotic and...well, I am going to stop and play nice :P

 

either the chapter fights in very very difficult terrain unsuited for bikes but chapters do not always fight on the same terrain time after time. They have specialisms, but it does not mean they only fight in that manner. One battle they could be in extremely difficult terrain, the next they could be fighting n a planet wide car park :D

 

the chapter has limted access to fuel but fuel can be found everywhere. And, if we assume the Astartes bikes are similar to Rhinos and Guard tanks, they can be run on anything that burns.

 

last of all tradition. I believe that tradition is the best reason as to why a chapter would. but what tradition could they have to forsake bikes. The Dark Angels were originally formed from knights who did go around on horseback, and they didn't continue.

 

Besides not use them (which is the best idea ;), the most simplistic would be not to explain why the chapter uses them. What a lot of DIYers fail to remember is that the force you make does not need represent the average force your chapter deploys. It could be that on this one battle (the one your army is) the normal bikers have had their bikes destroyed and have mounted local animals instead. It is weak, but I feel it doesn't sacrafice the character of a chapter and sells it cheaply to a poor idea put out by GW :D

 

Well ok TO ME they are one of the great new units ;)

 

And I didn't agree with the ideas of lack of fuel and rough terrain they were just a suggestion that one of our brothers suggested, but I do like the idea he put forth about it being a tradition of the chapter. I do like your suggestion about the bikes being destroyed so the marines took local mounts and I think I would combine this with the idea of the chapter maintaining the practice in honour of those brothers (like the Deathwing painting their armor bone white). My intent is to not have the chapter completly forgoe the use of bikes, but to have a small contingent of veteran brothers who are apart of the tradition.

[Ace Debonair]

And I didn't agree with the ideas of lack of fuel and rough terrain they were just a suggestion that one of our brothers suggested, but I do like the idea he put forth about it being a tradition of the chapter. I do like your suggestion about the bikes being destroyed so the marines took local mounts and I think I would combine this with the idea of the chapter maintaining the practice in honour of those brothers (like the Deathwing painting their armor bone white). My intent is to not have the chapter completly forgoe the use of bikes, but to have a small contingent of veteran brothers who are apart of the tradition.

 

That could be good - put them in just one company, perhaps?

A cavalry company could be quite novel and fun, although having any widespread use of them beyond that would be rather awkward to explain.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Yep I would probably just have them be in the 1st company. But I need a reason as to why their bikes broke down/were useless? any ideas?

[Ferrus Manus]

But I need a reason as to why their bikes broke down/were useless? any ideas?

Bad relations with the Admech mean they are rarely given equipment, hence they are forced to utilise savage beasts from their homeworld> Of course that means that there would be other consequences.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

But I need a reason as to why their bikes broke down/were useless? any ideas?

Bad relations with the Admech mean they are rarely given equipment, hence they are forced to utilise savage beasts from their homeworld> Of course that means that there would be other consequences.

 

Sorry won't work, I already stated above that my chapter has good relations with the Adeptus Mechanicum and have very good equiptment. I just need a reason as to why the chapters bikes didn't work in that specific battle

[Sinister_Miles]

Perhaps because your mount(s) are used for more then mobility? I mean even regular real-life horses can do some pretty horrific damage to a person if they want to; so logically, a horse which space marines consider worthy are probably real terrors. So perhaps your chapter was fighting a particularly entrenched/motivated enemy and your marines needed the added fighting power of the mounts in a charge-of-rohan-type attack to break the back of the resistance?

[Gyson_Vore]

I would say it would not be too far off to say that the Chapter may just be more inclined to retain their traditional ways.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Brothers I appreciate the suggestions as to why the chapter has the horses but this has already been established, what I need are suggestions as to the reason why the bikes of the unit where inopperable during the battle that led to the unit using horses and thus creating the tradition which honors those marines who fought in the battle. Its a small unit vs larger force scenario where the small unit charges out and in their last actions defeat the larger force and were forced to use horses because there bikes were damaged.

[Leonaides]

Leaving aside the happy coincidence that there was a herd of remarkably strong battle-trained horses around just at the moment the marines bikes were all broken, that the marines knew how to ride them, knew the commands and touch-signals... A marine would actually be faster than a horse at the kind of ranges that an engagement would happen. So what benefit would there be for them to use the horses?

 

A reason why their bikes were inopperable? Operating behind enemy lines and their resupply fuel air-drop was intercepted, or the drop-pod it was in was fatally damaged by AA weaponry, or simply the enemy got there first and blew it up just before the marines could retake it.

[Mithril hound]

Use mechanical mounts, or servitor mounts. They could get them from the Ad Mech due to their exceptionally good relations.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Leaving aside the happy coincidence that there was a herd of remarkably strong battle-trained horses around just at the moment the marines bikes were all broken, that the marines knew how to ride them, knew the commands and touch-signals... A marine would actually be faster than a horse at the kind of ranges that an engagement would happen. So what benefit would there be for them to use the horses?

 

A reason why their bikes were inopperable? Operating behind enemy lines and their resupply fuel air-drop was intercepted, or the drop-pod it was in was fatally damaged by AA weaponry, or simply the enemy got there first and blew it up just before the marines could retake it.

 

I like the idea of the drop pod being damaged on the way to the planet. It gives me the setting for the marines to be seperated from their brothers since they landed off course and to be reduced numbers as some of their brothers died in the landing. Thank you

[Hemal]

The chapter COULD fight with bikes AND use the cavalry as an option for deep-insertion troops, or as a "guards" type unit - we do have ceremonial units after all and had them even in WW1 where they were used in areas where machnised support or trench warfare had not rendered them obsolete. Bikes need refuelling and resupply - horses can forage (as can Space Marines), so a horse-back unit could in theory last quite a while, maybe used in conjunction with caches for ammo and other consumables that the marines need. The only issue is that the mounts wiould have to be as heavily armoured and as resilient as the marines, otehrwise they may

 

As to mounted - New Plastic Chaos steeds, Archaon's mount, Malhandir, Korhandir and several of the Imperial character mounts are excellent, as is the old High Elf Unicorn model - all are huge compared to the Bretonnian warhorses as well. The Bretonnian horses simply look too puny to carry a fully armoured space marine. The Chaos steeds might be acceptable as mutated, heavily genetically modified stock, as long as you remove a lot of the spiky bits, with the added advantage that you can use the Knight legs (I've tried). You will need a good Green-stuff fu though, you need to be able to remodel extensivley where possible.

 

PM me if you want a couple of the unicrons - I have two spare I would be willing to swap fir

[Race Bannon]

PM me if you want a couple of the unicrons - I have two spare I would be willing to swap fir

:o

 

You mean this?!

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e241/zenidi/page2.jpg

;)

 

Ok seriously, this is something I have started to consider myself. I figured to use the High Else chariot Lions and be done with it ... but they don;t fit my fluff :(

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Well what's your fluff?

[Arnil]

Make them white scars successors and after the bikes broke down they reverted to way their old primarch used to roll! Horse back! They find some Clydesdales put on a saddle and away they go!

 

The bikes could have just died of being 10000 years old, or got shot up in a botched bike assault that many survived from due to expert extraction tactics!

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Make them white scars successors and after the bikes broke down they reverted to way their old primarch used to roll! Horse back! They find some Clydesdales put on a saddle and away they go!

 

The bikes could have just died of being 10000 years old, or got shot up in a botched bike assault that many survived from due to expert extraction tactics!

 

Thanks but I'm not exactly looking to rehash my entire chapter to be able to use the horses. Besides this is not an army wide change but again a smaller, specialised, tradition based unit

[Hemal]

PM me if you want a couple of the unicrons - I have two spare I would be willing to swap fir

:)

 

You mean this?!

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e241/zenidi/page2.jpg

:D

 

Ok seriously, this is something I have started to consider myself. I figured to use the High Else chariot Lions and be done with it ... but they don;t fit my fluff :P

 

Oh darn - I thought I had corrected that - I type too fast for my brain sometimes..

 

Ah well - Orson Wells' last great film role - that of a planetary eating robot-god...