vs. Dante/Blood Angels

[NealSmith]

Hi All,

 

Fought the Clash of Heroes scenario (Battle Missions) today against Blood Angels. Despite bad die rolling all over my army, I managed to get Logan into contact with Dante.

 

He wiped me out without me being able to roll against him. What you say? That can't be!!! :unsure:

 

Dante has that special mask (or whatever...) that lowers WS/I/W/A of one IC. Guess who he picked.

 

Is there any counter to this? It was too easy for Dante. Don't play Blood Angels in this scenario unless you plan on staying away from single combat and just try for the "points" victory.

 

Otherwise the Blood Angels weren't anything special, I just couldn't roll worth a darn...

 

My Wolf Scouts assaulted a small Death Company w/ Chaplain and killed the DC. The Chaplain got me later... :lol:

 

 

Thanks,

Neal

[JEFF4i]

Arjac.

[RunningWolfFenris]

Arjac.

x2

He's not an IC

[NealSmith]

That gets around the ability of Dante, but Arjac will die just as easily as Logan in this particular situation because Dante will still go first. Arjac has a 3+ Inv instead of 4+ which might help, but he's still got the same two wounds that Logan does at this point. He also has fewer attacks IF he does survive.

 

I've actually been looking at Bjorn. He's going to go second anyway, but the only thing Dante can really hurt him with is the Krak grenades. Bjorn will have a harder time hitting, but dreadnought close combat usually takes a while anyway. Thoughts?

 

 

Thanks,

Neal

[Grimtooth]

That gets around the ability of Dante, but Arjac will die just as easily as Logan in this particular situation because Dante will still go first. Arjac has a 3+ Inv instead of 4+ which might help, but he's still got the same two wounds that Logan does at this point. He also has fewer attacks IF he does survive.

 

I've actually been looking at Bjorn. He's going to go second anyway, but the only thing Dante can really hurt him with is the Krak grenades. Bjorn will have a harder time hitting, but dreadnought close combat usually takes a while anyway. Thoughts?

 

 

Thanks,

Neal

 

Out at dinner, but doesn't Bjorn have a WTN so hits on 3+ anyway? Doesn't Logan have that as well?

[Wispy]

That gets around the ability of Dante, but Arjac will die just as easily as Logan in this particular situation because Dante will still go first. Arjac has a 3+ Inv instead of 4+ which might help, but he's still got the same two wounds that Logan does at this point. He also has fewer attacks IF he does survive.

 

I've actually been looking at Bjorn. He's going to go second anyway, but the only thing Dante can really hurt him with is the Krak grenades. Bjorn will have a harder time hitting, but dreadnought close combat usually takes a while anyway. Thoughts?

 

 

Thanks,

Neal

But Dante can't allocate attacks to Arjac is the difference. Dante has to kill his whole squad first to get at him.

 

Also, because Arjac is not a special character, but not an independent character, you can use him as your chosen without worrying about Dante's curse. Plus Arjac only needs to do one wound to Dante to instant death him - one re-rollable hit, and one re-rollable wound...

 

Just have his squad soak the blows and pound him.

 

(Actually, you can do sort of the same thing with Logan - just have logan behind is squad, and put a bunch of guys in front so Dante can't get base to base. Logan won't be able to allocate attacks either, but eventually Dante will mow through enough dudes that eventually they are base to base. Once that happens, you'll go and you only need to get one of Logan's powerfist wounds to instant death Danta)

 

It's kind of cheap, but if he's using a cheap character that exploits the rules of the game mode, so you should tool...

 

Bjorn simply does not work in the context for a lot of rules in Clash of Heroes simply because he does not have wounds.

[commander alexander]

If you had a lone wolf join in that could work. Also an Iron Priest on TWM could easily insta-death him with hammer and WTN, have the cyberwolves soak up the attacks since the IP isn't an IC. I personally love the IP option, he is one hard hitting "unit". B)

[Spazmonkey]

Even with arjac and a full unit youd be lucky to take him down. I Play tested this and Dante is a beast if you let him it CC.

 

Honestly dont take him on directly untill you have wounds on him, if at all

Snipers are great against Dante (always wound on 4+). And There is always plasma from long fangs.

 

Personally Ill do my best not to take him on in Close combat.

He is a close combat Monster, why get into CC and play his game....

[kittenofdeath]

In a clash of heros game, Dante becomes quite a problem, you have to close in and kill him in combat, but outside of that, he's an easy kill. His usual retinue is something big bad and strapped to a rocket pack, theow plasma cannons at him or use rune preist powers like fury of the wolf spirits and tempests wrath to get around the high armor save problem (tempest does work on jump infantry, right?) and before you know it he'll be a smear on the ground.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

In a clash of heros game, Dante becomes quite a problem, you have to close in and kill him in combat, but outside of that, he's an easy kill. His usual retinue is something big bad and strapped to a rocket pack, theow plasma cannons at him or use rune preist powers like fury of the wolf spirits and tempests wrath to get around the high armor save problem (tempest does work on jump infantry, right?) and before you know it he'll be a smear on the ground.

Is he in Terminator armor? If so,simple enough,walk up two inches away,hit him with murderous hurricane and then rapidfire the heck out of him,wait for him to assault you ,and watch him attack last due to assaulting through difficult terrain.

[S. Bloodhowl]

Dante, have you met Long Fangs with Lascannons?

[kittenofdeath]

In a clash of heros game, Dante becomes quite a problem, you have to close in and kill him in combat, but outside of that, he's an easy kill. His usual retinue is something big bad and strapped to a rocket pack, theow plasma cannons at him or use rune preist powers like fury of the wolf spirits and tempests wrath to get around the high armor save problem (tempest does work on jump infantry, right?) and before you know it he'll be a smear on the ground.

Is he in Terminator armor? If so,simple enough,walk up two inches away,hit him with murderous hurricane and then rapidfire the heck out of him,wait for him to assault you ,and watch him attack last due to assaulting through difficult terrain.

 

Dante has artificer armour and a jump pack, and to memory, grenades.

[Wispy]

Even with arjac and a full unit youd be lucky to take him down. I Play tested this and Dante is a beast if you let him it CC.

 

Honestly dont take him on directly untill you have wounds on him, if at all

Snipers are great against Dante (always wound on 4+). And There is always plasma from long fangs.

 

Personally Ill do my best not to take him on in Close combat.

He is a close combat Monster, why get into CC and play his game....

You're so wrong here. Dante is a big softy for the most part. Are you sure you're not thinking of Mephiston?

 

Clash of Heroes: The enemy hero does not suffer death unless it's at the hand of your hero. When reduced to zero wounds by anything but your hero, they operate as if they have one wound left. If your hero dies, the game is over and the one with the hero standing wins.

 

Arjac only needs to wound him once - he always hits on 3's, wounds on 2's, and has re-rollable hits against ICs. Wound Dante once with Arjac, and then you win, because Dante is T4 with no Eternal Warrior and would be instant death'd. Arjac and a full terminator squad, or Arjac in the middle of 15 blood claws or something else there just designed to soak up hits until I1 rolls around.

 

You would probably win you the game in the first round of assault.

[jeremy1391]

to kill dante is too easy yea he has that big bat mask of his which will hinder one of your characters but its not so bad Take Bjorn yes he will go second but his WTN will splatter Dante all over the battlefield or take a lord with TH/SS on a thunderwolf mount with a WTN which will counter a lot of dantes mask advantages and will still splatter him.

[Wispy]

Bjorn does not work with Clash of Heroes because he does not have wounds.

[SamaNagol]

Dante has a S4 Power Axe and T4. He sucks.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

He also doesn't have a wolf tooth necklace. Strange isn't it?

 

If I played Blood Angels I would put a black line through Dante's death mask rules and play it purely as a conventional death mask. Mat Ward's desire to make the Blood Angels the Chaos Daemons of 40k has to be resisted.

 

I remember back in second edition when the Blood Angels were the tortured artists, noble warriors striving to overcome their curse. That was before Gav Thorpe and Mat Ward turned them into the cheese monkeys of the Marine world.

[Wispy]

T4, S4, powerweapon... Yep, not exactly a heavy hitter.

 

I feel bad for BA for their wargear. They don't really have anything cool or fun like frost blades or relic blades to give their HQs to get their strength up and make them a bit more useful. BA captains are just such a bad choice especially when a Reclusiarch is better points spent in every way.

[NealSmith]

To the several folks who talk about Dante being soft... OK, fine, but if he goes first and does a decent number of wounds to you, he will probably kill you before you get the chance to fight back.

 

Clash of Heroes, the named character has to be the one to put the last wound on him, otherwise he just shrugs off anything that would put him down.

 

Need to check CoH rules again, but does the named character have to have wounds? I thought it was just a named character?

 

Re: Arjac - Yes he does have a squad doesn't he? Hmmmm... I see where you are coming from now...

 

 

Thanks,

Neal

 

Edit - The mission rule says a "named character" and then later it says that if the force doesn't have a named character then any IC or Monstrous Creature can be chosen. The only mention of wounds is the special rule saying the nominated character can only be by an attack made by the other character.

[NealSmith]

(Actually, you can do sort of the same thing with Logan - just have logan behind is squad, and put a bunch of guys in front so Dante can't get base to base. Logan won't be able to allocate attacks either, but eventually Dante will mow through enough dudes that eventually they are base to base. Once that happens, you'll go and you only need to get one of Logan's powerfist wounds to instant death Danta)

 

Yeah, I tried this tactic in the game, but he jumped a chaplain behind me and because of shooting casualties, it worked out the "unit" went one way and left a clear lane for Dante to get to Logan at that point. I think this wasn't an intended tactic, but it did work!

 

 

Thanks

[Spazmonkey]

Even with arjac and a full unit youd be lucky to take him down. I Play tested this and Dante is a beast if you let him it CC.

 

Honestly dont take him on directly untill you have wounds on him, if at all

Snipers are great against Dante (always wound on 4+). And There is always plasma from long fangs.

 

Personally Ill do my best not to take him on in Close combat.

He is a close combat Monster, why get into CC and play his game....

You're so wrong here. Dante is a big softy for the most part. Are you sure you're not thinking of Mephiston?

 

Clash of Heroes: The enemy hero does not suffer death unless it's at the hand of your hero. When reduced to zero wounds by anything but your hero, they operate as if they have one wound left. If your hero dies, the game is over and the one with the hero standing wins.

 

Arjac only needs to wound him once - he always hits on 3's, wounds on 2's, and has re-rollable hits against ICs. Wound Dante once with Arjac, and then you win, because Dante is T4 with no Eternal Warrior and would be instant death'd. Arjac and a full terminator squad, or Arjac in the middle of 15 blood claws or something else there just designed to soak up hits until I1 rolls around.

 

You would probably win you the game in the first round of assault.

 

 

Sorry My Bad your dead right I was think of Meph... Doh.... Is what ya get for not sleeping and posting....

[Leonaides]

Arjac only needs to wound him once - he always hits on 3's, wounds on 2's, and has re-rollable hits against ICs. Wound Dante once with Arjac, and then you win, because Dante is T4 with no Eternal Warrior and would be instant death'd. Arjac and a full terminator squad, or Arjac in the middle of 15 blood claws or something else there just designed to soak up hits until I1 rolls around.

 

You would probably win you the game in the first round of assault.

 

Lets be fair here though shall we? Give Dante an accompanying squad too, of equal points value, and he'd still wipe the floor with Arjac and squad... A charging BA assault squad with priest could easily be 14 S5 I7/5 PW attacks (averages 9 hits aprox and 6 kills), plus 11 BP shots and an Infernus pistol (2 maybe 3 dead), plus maybe another 27 S5/I5 non-PW attacks (4 kills ish). You've now at -13 on the combat resolution, and given the BA superiority in manouvreing, there should be no reason why Arjac would be within striking distance of Dante. SW attacks back - lets say you kill 3 people (all from Arjac as there're only 2 BC's left at this point). Next turn? Gets a bit more sticky, but boils down to you passing 2 3+ saves before striking. Do-able, yes, but rather dicey.

[whitewolfmxc]

Th rules of most BA stuff is BS anyway (courtesy of Mr Ward and not the army itself) , oh what ? you have a mask that reduces one of my WOUNDS ? (its not even fluff vaible , how do you explain that MR ward ? what ? you think its good cause its cool ? , oh wait you think BA are chaos TOO ??? OMG)

 

anyway arjack should be able to kill Dante with ease unless one to one

[Wispy]

I have to laugh - looks like I went and bruised a BA players ego and he had to go open his mouth. And as far as I'm concerned - I'm being perfectly fair.

 

Listen dude, I'm sure that squad is awesome, but you're spouting a laundry list of requirements for Dante that require the whole battle to be going your way. This is why we bring armies with us - to deal and respond to threats that will change the course of the game. Maybe Arjac and his boys jumps out of a land raider and denies Dante positioning he might need. Maybe Dante's squad is ravaged before he even reaches Arjac. Or maybe Arjac's squad bites it to a vindactor blast and Dante can get him head on.

 

I know if I had my way in Clash of Heroes , I would do my very best to ensure Dante will be slogging by himself by the time he reachs Arjac.... Or when Arjac reaches him. You will be trying to ensure the exact same thing.

 

 

What I am saying is this: In a mission where two ICs have to wound each other in assault to decide the winner, Arjac has the advantage for these reasons:

- Dante can be targeted directly by Arjac, while Arjac can hide in whatever squad he wants and be untouchable

- Arjac is designed to kill indepentant characters. He hits on 3, re-rolls hits, and wounds on 2.

- Dante does not have eternal warrior - a single wound from Arjac would kill him and the game is lost.

- Dante is foot slogging (usually - storm ravens arent exactly common just yet) while Arjac can get a Land Raider.

 

Dante needs a lot of luck in the battle to overcome Arjac's advantages.

 

Nothing said here is untrue and I don't really have time for bruised egos.

 

 

 

 

 

(Also, funnily enough, which I didn't consider before, both Arjac and Dante of them have high strength AP1 6 inch shooting attacks! Lol! Nice.)

[Thunderhawk3015]

I just throw 2 I5 characters at Dante, he can't reduce the stats on both. Add in Wolf Priest in the mix its going to be a long night for Dante. My view, leave the named characters at home and pull out the generic HQ units that can still work over Dante.

 

1v1 Thunderwolf with runic armor and a storm sheild/thunderhammer combo promises to give Dante some trouble though.