Extra armor for transports

[Fael'Tearmunn]

I am wondering if it is worth it to get EA on transports (rhinos, land raiders).

 

I havent played a lot in 5th edition, but a friend keeps telling me that EA is not that great now, pointwise.

 

What do you guys use when playing transports? How is it working with or without the EA.

 

Fael'Tearmunn.

[VorpalDoom]

Think of it like this...

 

 

If you'd get it on 2 vehicles, that's enough points for 2 storm bolters and a hunter killer missile as upgrades...

Same price as a grey hunter....

3 times the price of changing the rhino to a razorback....

Nearly the price of a powerfist on a wolf guard...

possibly the difference between getting combi-weapons for all wolf guard, and not....

nearly half the price of the vehicle (assuming rhino) itself.....

 

 

For what?

 

A 1/6 chance to keep moving, provided you're not immobilized, or it matters at all if the unit is still alive.

 

1/6 chance you're not moving no matter what.

 

Just not worth it.

 

However, for land raiders?

YES, don't leave home without it. You NEED your land raiders to perform as predictably as possible, they're far too expensive to leave anything up to chance.

[Sarapham]

Think of it like this...

 

 

If you'd get it on 2 vehicles, that's enough points for 2 storm bolters and a hunter killer missile as upgrades...

Same price as a grey hunter....

3 times the price of changing the rhino to a razorback....

Nearly the price of a powerfist on a wolf guard...

possibly the difference between getting combi-weapons for all wolf guard, and not....

nearly half the price of the vehicle (assuming rhino) itself.....

 

 

For what?

 

A 1/6 chance to keep moving, provided you're not immobilized, or it matters at all if the unit is still alive.

 

1/6 chance you're not moving no matter what.

 

Just not worth it.

 

However, for land raiders?

YES, don't leave home without it. You NEED your land raiders to perform as predictably as possible, they're far too expensive to leave anything up to chance.

 

 

Agreed with this, and also I think it is a good idea to always have it on your Dreads.

[eldaran]

Think of it like this...

 

 

If you'd get it on 2 vehicles, that's enough points for 2 storm bolters and a hunter killer missile as upgrades...

Same price as a grey hunter....

3 times the price of changing the rhino to a razorback....

Nearly the price of a powerfist on a wolf guard...

possibly the difference between getting combi-weapons for all wolf guard, and not....

nearly half the price of the vehicle (assuming rhino) itself.....

 

 

For what?

 

A 1/6 chance to keep moving, provided you're not immobilized, or it matters at all if the unit is still alive.

 

1/6 chance you're not moving no matter what.

 

Just not worth it.

 

However, for land raiders?

YES, don't leave home without it. You NEED your land raiders to perform as predictably as possible, they're far too expensive to leave anything up to chance.

 

What he said, with one exception - it's still not worth it on raiders; we have redundancy on raiders through POTMS, and i'd rather use the points on upgrading my redeemer with a multi-melta and dozer blades. I've never been in a situation yet where i've thought "damn, i wish i had extra armour"; certainly not since they tripled in cost.

[Grey Mage]

If you fight alot of tau, and I do mean ALOT of tau, it can certainly be worth its cost.

 

But thats about the only time.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

If you fight alot of tau, and I do mean ALOT of tau, it can certainly be worth its cost.

 

But thats about the only time.

Necrons with their high amount of glancing hits available would also be good. The other option for reasons why is if you are trying to ensure a Rapidfire/Counterattack pack gets to where it needs to be as quickly as possible

[Heimdal]

...upgrading my redeemer with a multi-melta and dozer blades.

 

FYI, LR Redeemers (or any Land Raider) cannot use dozer blades. Well, except Chaos LR

[Wispy]

It's good for land raiders, when you absolutely have to keep moving every turn.

 

Also good for dreadnoughts when you're fielding a lot of them and want to keep them moving. You can still assault even if you can't shoot.

[eldaran]

...upgrading my redeemer with a multi-melta and dozer blades.

 

FYI, LR Redeemers (or any Land Raider) cannot use dozer blades. Well, except Chaos LR

 

Huh. I've been inventing that little thing for a while, then.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i never field a transport without one.

if a tranport cannot move (such as a rhino), it is a complete waste of 35 points in my opinion. if that 15 pts extra armor allows me to close 12in with my grey hunters or blood claws, for any reason, then that is worth it.

 

WLK

[Howling Nightwolf]

i never field a transport without one.

if a tranport cannot move (such as a rhino), it is a complete waste of 35 points in my opinion. if that 15 pts extra armor allows me to close 12in with my grey hunters or blood claws, for any reason, then that is worth it.

Agreed brother.

I always take EA for my vehicle, because if i get a stun i can move on my next turn. But if i get stun without EA - in next turn lost rhino and maybe squad. Move is life.

If you can remember in old dex rhino with EA+SM cost 58 points. Now Rhino with EA+SM+ searchlight cost 50 points. Where you find overprice? :wub:

[Sarapham]

If you can remember in old dex rhino with EA+SM cost 58 points. Now Rhino with EA+SM+ searchlight cost 50 points. Where you find overprice? :lol:

 

That in the old dex Extra armor was 10% of the cost of the rhino, while now it is closer to 50%. That means that instead of taking EA on two rhinos, you can (almost) buy another rhino, which I see as a much better deal.

[Howling Nightwolf]

2 Sarapham:

What is the point in the dead rhino?

In our metagame my rhinos often aim for almost the entire army of the enemy and it is due to the fact that they have EA they always goes to the enemy. Move in 50% of all chances more better than move in 33% chance.

But its you choise, you point of view :lol:

[Sarapham]

2 Sarapham:

What is the point in the dead rhino?

In our metagame my rhinos often aim for almost the entire army of the enemy and it is due to the fact that they have EA they always goes to the enemy. Move in 50% of all chances more better than move in 33% chance.

But its you choise, you point of view :P

 

 

Well I see it as proliferation. Yes your two Rhinos have a better chance of always moving, however I have one extra rhino.. meaning that even of they manage to stun one of them I will still have as many as you that can move forwards, and if none are stunned I have 50% more Rhinos storming the enemy. But I guess it is the age old question of quality vs. quantity. ;)

[Howling Nightwolf]

Well I see it as proliferation. Yes your two Rhinos have a better chance of always moving, however I have one extra rhino.. meaning that even of they manage to stun one of them I will still have as many as you that can move forwards, and if none are stunned I have 50% more Rhinos storming the enemy. But I guess it is the age old question of quality vs. quantity. :P

Perhaps my problem is that I do not know how to take additional Rhino without squads, and all units are already equipped with everything that they need? ;)

[Sarapham]

Well I see it as proliferation. Yes your two Rhinos have a better chance of always moving, however I have one extra rhino.. meaning that even of they manage to stun one of them I will still have as many as you that can move forwards, and if none are stunned I have 50% more Rhinos storming the enemy. But I guess it is the age old question of quality vs. quantity. :P

Perhaps my problem is that I do not know how to take additional Rhino without squads, and all units are already equipped with everything that they need? ;)

 

 

There is no such thing as "everything they need". TOYS TOYS TOYS (ps. EA does not count as toys for me) :(

 

I see what you mean but what I am saying is if you skip EA you can essentially get a Rhino + more for "free" compared to the cost of EA.

[wolf363839]

I field a mech army and always take them for my Rhinos and Redeemer. They have come in handy many many times, at least twice per game I would guess. That may be luck or carma, but either way I'm a fan of EA. I would certainly put it on Dreads if I field them (unless it's role is fire support).

 

I don't put it on my one Razorback because his role is fire support and to provide a house for my 5-man GH Pack that I use to sit on nearby objectives.

[Olgerth Istaarn]

Extra Armor means paying significant points for retaining mobility. NOT higher survivability.

 

Ask yourself, what do I expect of this vehicle?

 

If it is a cheap troop transport, it needs to be just that, cheap. It gets your men from point A to point B, then blocks LOS and grimly prepares to die. Being cheap, it can afford to do that. A Rhino is under significant fire only in Turn 1 and 2, while it is still transporting. Once it has finished transporting, its payload is far more interesting than the Rhino itself. You can help the Rhino survive by smoking in Turn 1, and presenting a more appealing target elsewhere in Turn 2. Beyond Turn 1 and Turn 2, the transport will either 1) survive to continue being a mobile LOS block - YAY! o 2) get blown up, distracting enemy fire from its payload - YAY! Either way, it does not warrant investment beyond its original cost.

 

Now if it is a tank that must be mobile to be efficient, that's a different story. Redundancy notwithstanding, a LR practically MUST have EA, because the tank itself is only half the story - it's got a deathstar to deliver. It must move, or the unit within will lose precious time it would've otherwise spent getting to the enemy.

[Wildfire]

I wouldn't take it unless it's on a vehicle with high AV and which really needs to move every turn. This is essentially CC dreads (to allow charges) and land raiders (too large a percentage of your list to risk).