SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 I was just wondering how to systematically work your way through the AV13 spam list in both Annhilation and also Objectives missions Mephiston Baal Predator Baal Predator Baal Predator Vindicator Vindicator Vindicator plus 500pts of troops to flavour. How would you work your way through that? considering they can still get access to up to 3 scoring units in transports, should they so wish Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookielips Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 s6+ things hit meph. anti-armor hit vindi's. the list falls apart the moment all i have to deal with is meph w 2 wounds and 2 baals when it reaches me. paaaaaaaaatience.......... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2427653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 Thing is, everything can move FAAAAAST, and it is onto you by turn 2. It can out gun you, and Mephiston can go through almost any of your CC units. He's like a Death Star all to himself. What would you specify in terms of target priority at range Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2427657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priest33 Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Squads of assault troops decked out with double melta and bombs. Take out the vindicators as they can wreck stuff rather quick then focus on the baal's. Or sent up one squad for each type of tank and work your way through them, priests for survivability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2427706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Yeh you could definitely spam back with meltas in rhinos... then just win the objectives, an area he will clearly have difficulty with. My regular list has assault squads - but also 2 tactical's (melta or free flamer, and free ML - split into combat squads) with a TL-Lasc razorback. That way I have 2 lascannons and 2 ML's (hopefully on higher ground in cover)... that would keep his short range tanks honest at least; and if/when he trashes the razorbacks a meltagun or sarg with meltabombs pops out. I don't really see his list being all that threatening to be honest. I face IG lists with more tanks, that have more range and better fire power ('fast' wouldn't even make a difference), and at the same time the IG list has tons of troops to grab objectives. Realistically your opponent here will only have like 2 full squads of troops to win him the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2427711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhar'Neth Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 HQ: Librarian – 100 (with the 5+ cover save power) Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 = 1,495 points This is my take on the spam list. It's hard as nuts, and can easily win with most armies. However it's too expensive for me to do it in real... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_Beck Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 HQ: Librarian – 100(with the 5+ cover save power) Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 = 1,495 points This is my take on the spam list. It's hard as nuts, and can easily win with most armies. However it's too expensive for me to do it in real... 3*5 longfans with MLs + Wolf Lord on Squirell thinks something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Yeah and I'm sorry but the basic tenant of 'spam lists' is that they spam TROOPS. That is what makes the leaf blower so good. You have only 4 squads of 5 troops... big whup. If you are facing a mech army all of those AC might do a little damage but tanks are not on the preferred diet for AC. Against hordes you will kill a ton of stuff, but you still won't have any troops to hold objectives once he pops your 11 armour razors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 If you are spending your time popping those Armour 11 Razors, the 6 AV13 tanks will be busy wiping you off the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilicate Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 I suppose the goal in general is to try and multi-assault the different vehicles (thinking from my eldar/marine perspective). I'd be trying to down those vindicators first, as they're the biggest threat to my lists, then I'd go after the razors/rhinos with troops. I think that I could try and save the baals for last, but they are still a potent threat, and something that moves 18" and can potentially tank shock me off objectives is pretty rough. The problem with a list like that is that it is highly vulnerable to multi-assaults against the vehicles. There's just not enough space to split up and not be clumped against something like this. I'd for sure recommend spending the 90pts to grab extra armor so they can't spend another turn wailing on your vehicles if they stun them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 That's why I take Extra Armour on all of my vehicles. 15pts to ensure I can leave of there 18" if I need to is priceless. If you have units that can multiple assault and still do big damage, ie multiple high strength models not just 1 Sergeant with a Hammer, then it won't be too bad to get rid of. However for most it is very difficult to get through all of that armour before it pulls you down. And you have to avoid Mephiston killing them first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilicate Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 That's a fair point. I suppose I can't see what extras you put on your vehicles. Yeah, I forgot about Meph. That guy will be a serious deterrent against assaulting your vehicles, especially if you manage to hide him behind said walls. I don't think that anyone is going to sit here and make the claim that the list is bad - on the contrary, I think it's pretty rough. So putting the shoe on the other foot; what are you going to do against three vendettas? I have a feeling that'd be a poor-matchup. I know that when I build a list, the first thing that I look at is whether or not it can handle a mech guard army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 If your only goal is to beat another totally spammed out mech BA list... it might work. I can't imagine that game is gonna be any fun, but whatever... As for units focusing on your armour 11, they don't have to. They can focus on your vindicators, then your baals, then your troops (which you don't have many of). Reserves and deep strikers are gonna ruin your day too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 TL Assault Cannons take Vendettas out of the sky super fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 TL Assault Cannons take Vendettas out of the sky super fast. How does that work when the Vendettas are held in reserve and deep strike in with their 3 TL-Lascannon shots? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 If you go by that reasoning, nothing can take them out and they are invincible. However after you fire your 3 TL Lascannon shot after moving 6" onto the board at one target, there will be 5 other Tanks and 4 Razorbacks firing back. And as I said, TL Assault Cannon go through AV12 nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 I'm just sayin dude... he can spam those just like your Baal's for the same price. They are also 'fast skimmers' and they can even 'scout' like your Baal preds. So he could take 3, come in from reserves OR at a greater distance (37"+), and kill 3 tanks in a turn. Assault Cannons are not that good at killing armour... you still need to roll 6's for rending AP. Then even while moving 'fast' your max reach is 36"; his 3 TL-Lascannons have 48" range AND he is a fast skimmer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 That max reach is half the table width. Which is all you need with fast vehicles on a 6-8 foot table. I'd happily do a chess sacrifice of my Baals for his Vendettas and my Vindicators for his Leman Russes. Cos that leaves me with 4 Razorbacks full of 5 man RAS squads and Mephiston. Which will brutalise 6 squads of Vets in Chimeras. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Hmm yeah, well good luck brother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 Its a moot point, as I don't run AV13 spam, not do I play as IG. It was an exercise in ascertaining what the target priority was for an opposing BA list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Ahh well it's not really an exercise until you get it on the table. B) I don't personally think it's a very good list, but then I've never played against or with that exact list... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aarkon Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 HQ: Librarian – 100(with the 5+ cover save power) Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Troops: 5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon) – 165 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Fast Attack: Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) – 145 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) – 100 = 1,495 points This is my take on the spam list. It's hard as nuts, and can easily win with most armies. However it's too expensive for me to do it in real... 3*5 longfans with MLs + Wolf Lord on Squirell thinks something else. Pray you don't come across a bunch of land raiders as they can sit back with twin-linked las and machine spirit and kill 2 tanks a turn while all the Ass Cannons bounce off their hull, sure if you are REALLY lucky one MIGHT rend its way though but it'd be a long shot. I think you could fit 4 of these in a nice BA list so with good shooting take 7 or even 8 tanks out a turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookielips Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Ahh well it's not really an exercise until you get it on the table. B) I don't personally think it's a very good list, but then I've never played against or with that exact list... its not. all those 5 man assault squads are hardly worth anything on the table. they cannot kill much of anything and they go down quickly to a lot of fire or enemy assaults. you must bring larger squads to make the 5 mans survive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorider2 Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 I was just wondering how to systematically work your way through the AV13 spam list in both Annhilation and also Objectives missions Mephiston Baal Predator Baal Predator Baal Predator Vindicator Vindicator Vindicator plus 500pts of troops to flavour. How would you work your way through that? considering they can still get access to up to 3 scoring units in transports, should they so wish One idea would be a lot of dreads, especially if podded. No matter what dread you take - MM, Ass can, sniper, DC dread, etc - it can be pretty effective against all of those things if dropped strategically (because the tanks are faster). The Vindi's blast has a tougher time hitting dreads and the HB's would only be helpful on a rare rear shot, and the Ass cans usually only on a 6. The libby dread's hood would cut Meph's ability by 40% or so. The pods themselves would also clutter up the board making the tanks less effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snozz Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Assault Cannons are not that good at killing armour... you still need to roll 6's for rending AP. Actually, they're better than TLLC for killing armour. In fact if you do the maths a Single Assault Cannon has exactly the same chance to penetrate and to glance AV13 as a Twin Linked Lascannon does. A Twin Linked Assault Cannon has a much better chance. This also extends to AV14, but I don't have the percentages on me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203634-av13-spam-list-how-to-take-it-on/#findComment-2428636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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