Why would a Space Wolf fall?

[TiguriusX]

I find the "My chapter is better" chest thumping so tiresome sometimes.

 

I mean, I do it too, I love my wolves, but it's just... uh. Some of the posts up there, "my chapter is more loyal then yours" now?

 

 

Even more annoying when they come to your home and spread their filth around.

[Quillen]

/rant onThere is no such thing as cannon in this game. It is rewritten at whim and often turns on it's own self.

 

 

I read post by Nimm. She made one mistake, he threw in at the moment he said ok. Cause all things have a cost. Nothing is free in this world/System/Universe. Every action/thought/decision has a cost. Nothing is free.

 

Chaos looses cause it turns in on it's self. Cause it is selfish. And most people who do evil are selfish cause evil is nothing more the selfishness.

 

Don't believe me? Look at history.

 

Adolf Hitler- Loved at first cause he brought food and jobs to people. Promised to help people with socialized assistance. And he killed millions in a war and death camps because they did not matter to him. He wanted them dead and wanted what he wanted and who cares what others think. Narrow minded socialist bastard.

 

Stalin- Helped take over a country and then killed more people then Hitler. Starved those who were a problem to him. When they voted him out of power he killed them. Then killed anyone in the military who could threaten him there. Why? Cause he wanted to rule and saw the others needs as unimportant. He knew best. And Screw you and your opinions. Selfish.

 

Mao? Same thing. He knew best and you did not matter. Selfish. Self-serving.

 

 

Think of people whom did great things but were not selfish.

 

Gandhi- He changed peoples minds without violence. He did this by being just and kind. Showing a better way without lifting a hand in violence. When they overthrew a Muslim government he went to a house of Muslims and sat with them and refused to leave when people came to kill them. What their people in a name of faith had done should have sealed their fate. He said no and would not leave. The people spared them and him. He had the courage to stand up and face down a mob of mad people to save people whom in my personal opinion are not worth saving.

 

Martin Luther King- With the laws of a land against him, and people full of hate threatening him, marched. Lead pray meetings and spoke for justice. Not revenge. Not over throwing the country and killing the white rich and taking their stuff. He simple wanted to be treated the same under the law and be given the same chance to better himself and the lived of his family and friends. He knew he would die. He had no doubts that someone would kill him. But as that old song says,"Hey I say nice shot!" Cause his sacrifice was tragic and so noticed it caused people to look in themselves and turn away from the beliefs of hate.

 

Even those who lost.

 

Robert E. Lee- was offered the leadership of the entire Union army. But he would have to turn his back and friends and family, and fight against them and State Rights. So he turned it down. Then was offered to lead the Army of Virginia. He accepted, and for 2 and a half years ran the Northern armies ragged till the South ran out of supplies and bodies to fight. He then surrendered his army under conditions that would help his men be able to survive. They got to keep their rifles to hunt. Yet he lost his farm. Arlington cemetery is his old home. He fought for what was right and mad decisions and had to live with how it turned out.

 

Chaos is not sneaky you just have to not li to yourself.

 

Rune Priests prevent taint from spreading. It's in the fluff. They delve deep into the mind of every recruit to the chapter. So for one to get by it would not be easy. And the Rune Priests would know whom to watch.

 

If a Space Wolf falls to chaos it would have to be through actions he did not know would lead to his down fall. Their way of life makes betrayal hard. Still he would see it happening. He would know something is not right.

 

So that piece of fluff is worthless at best. Canon? Really? This is not a religion but a badly gaming system with badly written fluff.

 

Don't believe me? Let's look at Space Wolf fluff alone.

-We could Teleport and looked like every other chapter.

-Wait we can teleport but our tactical squads and Devs are different.

-Wait we are scared to teleport and can not teleport, unless all of the force is deep striking then we can teleport.

-Wait we have never teleported and would never teleport because it's scary. Being put into a small metal bullet and shot at a planet from a ship that travels the the void is not scary at all thou.

 

See my point? The fluff changes and is quiet often dumb at best.

 

 

Have Space Wolves fallen to chaos? Sure. Have they done it like that really bad written piece of fluff says? No way. Cause the Wolf Priests would not have let those recruits make it into the chapter.

 

It simply comes down to this. Some one in charge at a company whom makes a game wrote some really bad fluff and put it in a book. Some people read it and think it's law. Thou there is no law in this fluff as it changes. Leman Russ was an Imperial General at one time, remember? Now he is a Primarch. It changes all the time and some times this is good and sometimes it is bad. So in the end it does not matter.

 

 

What does matter is the way you see it. And if you respect others how they see it. As a Space Wolf player I can not stand the idea of someone falling to chaos on a whim. Or doing something as bad a betrayal on a whim. Wolf Lords do leave the Fang. They usually stay loyal to Russ' and the Emperor's Plans thou. But no chapter is perfect. All have flaws cause no man is perfect. And in the end even a space marine is nothing more then a man with implants and dogma beaten into him.

 

So if you want to make a guy go rogue then do it without them going to chaos. You can use the standard list with out demons and such to do it. Or say the wolfen has consumed him and he has demon stat lines. Just don`t make it as lame as the Space Wolf Pirates.

[TiguriusX]

Think of people whom did great things but were not selfish.

I'd like to add George Washington to your list of great unselfish deeds. I know there are many people on this forum outside the US so I'm curious what they know about him.

 

George Washington had the opportunity for limitless power and control after the American Revolution. He stepped back so that the very ideals he and his men fought, bled and died for could take root.

 

I compare that to modern people in positions of power and get the impression none of them would repeat that move if in that situation.

 

/steps down and returns soap box to the corner

[Requiem of the Wolf]

A whelp hmmmm?

Not to be hating, but lets' get this straight.

1. No Black Templar has fallen to chaos, because of their belief in the Emperor's awesomness.

2. Defended the Imperial Palce during the Heresy as the Imperial Fists First company, oh sorry, you were getting your buts kicked by the Thousand Sons :lol:

3. Far more troops than Space wolves

4. Far more belief in the Empeor

5. More honorable

6. Far more wins than Space Wolf chapter

7. Chaplain Grimaldus, enough said

8. Veterans of thousands of campaigns

9. Trained far more in close combat than a Snow Angel ;)

10. IMPERIAL FISTS GENE SEED!

11. Never fought and fellow battle brethren or the Imperium

12. While oyu drink ale and beer and have a good time, we slay and hunt down the enemies of the empeor, what you should have already done if your so good.

Ayway, it's very feesible for a Space Wolf to fall to the Dark Powers because of their practices and fighting only for themselves.

1 Well,no proof of that to be had. In fact,canon clearly states that only the Grey Knights have never had a member fall to Chaos. So no..you fail on that. 0/1

2 Defended the Imperial Palace during the Heresy? Unless I am mistaken,the Black Templars weren't even around then. So either you are going for the benefit of multiple Chapters,or your sense of history is more screwed up then I thought.As for getting our butt's kicked by the Thousand Sons...was that before or after we Razed their home planet to the ground? I can never keep those straight. So again..Nope..Failing on that one too 0/2

3 Far more troops then the Space Wolves? *snickers* When Canon says we are the biggest Chapter this time around,you Fail on that too. Now you might have been remembering prior editions where Space Wolves were the smallest...so I will be generous and give you half marks on that one. .5/3

4 Far more belief in the Emperor. Well,guess what..You finally got one right. Space Wolves as a whole are far more concerned with the people of the Imperium being kept safe rather then the Emperor. Hey you finally got a point...now its 1.5/4

5 More Honorable. Tell ya what...Go around and ask every other chapter which of the two is more honorable,the Space Wolves or the Black Templars...You don't need to be a Psyker to predict how that one is going to turn out. So yep,failing again. 1.5/5

6 Far more wins then the Space Wolf Chapter. First off...We have had Great Wolves (Chapter commander to you) that have been alive and kicking ass for Russ and Emperor for longer then the Black Templars have been around. So we got another swing and a miss. 1.5/6

7 Chaplain Grimaldus...Ya I am gonna go out on a limb here and say "Who?" According to Canon,Logan Grimnir our great wolf is worshipped on thousands of worlds by the populace as a living saint second only to the emperor himself. And how that happened is because Logan Grimnir took his Wolves to those worlds and saved those inhabitants from certain destruction at the hands of every threat that came their way. So seriously...who is this Grimaldus guy. No joke I really do want to know. 1.5/7

8 Veterans of Thousands of Campaigns. We have active Wolves that have been alive longer then your entire chapter has been around. But I will give ya a half point on this because while it is accurate...we still have more.2/8...Hey...you clawed your way back up to 25% well done.

9 Trained more in close combat? Pffftt...Your average 10 year old Fenrisian woman child has fought more battles then half of your troops. Canon has Fenrisians coming into the world naked,screaming and covered in blood,and we pretty much stay that way our entire lives. We fight every day of our lives against a entire world that is doing everything it can to kill us...and all that happens before we are ever turned into Marines. What do you have..Battle simulators,training rooms. Yeah no question on this one. 2/9

10 Imperial fist Geneseed. Yep...so your second Gen...Copy of a Copy. Still not helping your case here...But as before..I will give you a half point because while accurate...your still second class in comparison. 2.5/10

11 Never fought fellow Battle Brethren or the Imperium. Yes and we have never stood by and allowed the slaughter of innocents. We have killed the guilty,and the evil...no matter what mask of purity they hid behind. We serve the Emperor and the Imperium as it needs to be,not according to the wants of the Adeptus. We Defend the Weak,support the Strong,avenge the Fallen and punish the Wicked. You...wear black,write depressing poetry and fill half of your Crusade ships with Hot Topic shops. 2.5/11

12 We drink Ale and Beer and have fun while you punish the enemy's of the Emperor,what we should have allready done if we are so good. At this point,If I were in person,I would make a comment about Space Priests and the way they treat their Neophyte Altar Boys. But since I am neither there to see the expression on your face when I said it,there to duck out of the way of your angry swing and thus unable to claim self defense as I gleefully pounded you into pulp,I will refrain. What you should have said there is we drink ale and beer in between the times we are kicking the ass of any opponent that we come across. Most of our drinking is done in transit. We Wolves have been kicking the ass of the Emperor's enemys since before your Chapter was a glint in your Primarch Granddaddy's eye. At this point,all you Blind Templars do is follow the orders of the Adeptus. It was people like your chapter,and those your chapter serve that consigned a entire planet's worth of honorable fighters,those that had defended their homes against the incursions of Chaos to internment camps and forced sterilization.So survey says...2.5/12...Not such a good score for the Black Templars..Maybe they will have better luck next year against the Dark Angels.

 

Yes,you are a whelp..And like many whelps,occasionally you lose your way,and make a mistake. When that happens,a good cuff around the ears should help set you straight. The thing is,after the first time..generally we lose patience and bite the throat till you realize you made a mistake,or well..They make another one like you and hope that this one comes out better.

 

Now...the fact that you came in here and tried this...Says that you got balls and bravery...Not much brains...But Balls and Bravery are definitely things Wolves can respect. Now..that being said..Those two will only get you so far,and you are at about the edge of it.

[Karack Blackstone]

Just don't leave a mess around here, Requiem. I'd hate for the servitors to think ill of you. Guests still have to leave the Fang.

 

After that, it's questionable. That, and questionable if he still qualifies as a guest after ranting like that. Let's stick to the point of the thread.

 

I like that so many Wolves defend our chapter saying we won't fall to heresy lightly, and only budged after a story of little writing skill (as evidence as it is) made it into the Chaos Codex.

 

What I think is being debated here has been answered, but as I said, I expect this to be a long thread, if not locked due to the direction I sense it is about to go.

[Wispy]

Think of people whom did great things but were not selfish.

I'd like to add George Washington to your list of great unselfish deeds. I know there are many people on this forum outside the US so I'm curious what they know about him.

 

George Washington had the opportunity for limitless power and control after the American Revolution. He stepped back so that the very ideals he and his men fought, bled and died for could take root.

 

I compare that to modern people in positions of power and get the impression none of them would repeat that move if in that situation.

 

/steps down and returns soap box to the corner

George Washington was a slave owner, in support of slavery, and many of his moves promoted it. Does that sound like the actions of unselfish man? You're looking at history through the rose coloured glasses popularized by American culture. Have no doubt - Washington wasn't the only founding father and they were all in it for something. To their credit they established a system of checks and balances that has endured for a century or two (but is a bit worse for wear lately), but they had their share of dirty laundry, just like any politician today.

 

 

Also, we are now horrendously off topic...

[TiguriusX]

Think of people whom did great things but were not selfish.

I'd like to add George Washington to your list of great unselfish deeds. I know there are many people on this forum outside the US so I'm curious what they know about him.

 

George Washington had the opportunity for limitless power and control after the American Revolution. He stepped back so that the very ideals he and his men fought, bled and died for could take root.

 

I compare that to modern people in positions of power and get the impression none of them would repeat that move if in that situation.

 

/steps down and returns soap box to the corner

George Washington was a slave owner, in support of slavery, and many of his moves promoted it. Does that sound like the actions of unselfish man? You're looking at history through the rose coloured glasses popularized by American culture. Have no doubt - Washington wasn't the only founding father and they were all in it for something. To their credit they established a system of checks and balances that has endured for a century or two (but is a bit worse for wear lately), but they had their share of dirty laundry, just like any politician today.

 

 

Also, we are now horrendously off topic...

 

Brother Wispy I wasn't raising him up as a saint for his lifetime body of work. I thought we were discussing examples great deeds of unselfishness in relation to chaos and the enevitable failure of chaos' selfish acts/deeds.

 

And you are right. We have definitely jumped the tracks in this thread. I'm *reining* myself in after this post

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Just don't leave a mess around here, Requiem. I'd hate for the servitors to think ill of you. Guests still have to leave the Fang.

 

After that, it's questionable. That, and questionable if he still qualifies as a guest after ranting like that. Let's stick to the point of the thread.

 

I like that so many Wolves defend our chapter saying we won't fall to heresy lightly, and only budged after a story of little writing skill (as evidence as it is) made it into the Chaos Codex.

 

What I think is being debated here has been answered, but as I said, I expect this to be a long thread, if not locked due to the direction I sense it is about to go.

He is without a doubt still a guest. I told him to defend his position,and he did attempt to do so.

[Wispy]

the Space Wolves forum is not belong to the regulars. It's not a special club house, even if you think it is.

 

Any B&C member has a right to be here. don't be cliquey.

[whitewolfmxc]

-_- To many Space Wolves, and too drunk to know that the Black Templars are so much better. No Black Templar has fallen to chaos, not one! Followed by the Imperial Fists of course. B)

CHAOS SNOW ANGELS!!!!! I love it. :D

Sorry Rath,but your armor is a bit too stained to qualify as a Grey Knight...and that is the only way you get to say you have never had a brother fall to Chaos. As for better..*chuckles* only a lapdog of the Inquisition would be so blind...But come on then...Raise your fists whelp..prove your claims...or slink back under the skirts of your high marshal.

 

Now that the whelp has been reminded of it's place *grins* back to the business at hand. I think I see what Ramses is trying to say..and while not entirely logical for how a Wolf would think in my opinion,it at least tries to explain something that to date,even being as old as people say,still has never been adequately explained. Personally,I think the idea of Huron having found a way to make a pack turn traitor before he attacked would make alot more sense,as odd as that sounds. The points raised about the persecution of the Inquisition leading a Wolf to turn to Chaos as a last resort is another example of what I meant by "doing what was right,following a path of good intentions and having it lead to a dark place"

 

Vanity is not often a prevailing sin amongst the Wolves...But for sure it does happen. Whether it would be enough to make a Wolf fall to Chaos,that I would doubt...but I suppose it is possible. Of all the Chaos gods,it would be Tzeentch that would be the likeliest to cause Wolves to fall. The intricate planning and weaving of chance that would be the likeliest way for a Wolf to fall is described as his greatest joy. A wolf might fall to the bloodlust exemplified by Khorne here and there...but they would be the rarest of the rare.

 

And this is also one of the only problems I had with the Dornian Heresy story...That it was Khorne that the Wolves worshipped....turning our backs on the rune priests. Ignoring the fact that every son of Fenris is at least in part a son of the storm. But further awakening the latent psychic power that is described to be a part of all Fenrisian's inhabitants would have made the story about the imperium surviving much less likely. Imagine every pack having at least one Rune priest as part of it. The wrath of the storm protecting each pack while it stripped the flesh from those that opposed it. Scary thought isnt it?

A welp hmmmm?

Not to be hating, but lets' get this straight.

1. No Black Templar has fallen to chaos, because of their belief in the Emperor's awesomness.

2. Defended the Imperial Palce during the Heresy as the Imperial Fists First company, oh sorry, you were getting your buts kicked by the Thousand Sons :P

3. Far more troops than Space wolves

4. Far more belief in the Empeor

5. More honorable

6. Far more wins than Space Wolf chapter

7. Chaplain Grimaldus, enough said

8. Veterans of thousands of campaigns

9. Trained far more in close combat than a Snow Angel ;)

10. IMPERIAL FISTS GENE SEED!

11. Never fought and fellow battle brethren or the Imperium

12. While you drink ale and beer and have a good time, we slay and hunt down the enemies of the empeor, what you should have already done if your so good.

 

Ayway, it's very feesible for a Space Wolf to fall to the Dark Powers because of their practices and fighting only for themselves.

 

 

 

Are you secretly Matt ward ? cause you sure write like him

 

for one , 8) Vets of a thousand campaigns.,..........humm heard of the Space wolves 13th company ? The've been fighting 10,000 years inside the warp against chaos and demons , Compared to them your "vets" are no more than a bunch of tryouts , and yeah same for any of your crusades in terms of time period

 

But yeah back to topic , Wolves turning Chaos ? = Yes , but rare and takes some time for that to happen unlike what was written in the Red corsairs story , Wolves turning renegades ? = F yeah , if we dont agree with your leadership then F you we leave now but we still serve russ and the all father , Wolves turning badass ? = As always lol

[Whitefireinferno]

So the a reasonable amout of the Sons of Russ see my point? that I made on page 3?

[kittenofdeath]

So the a reasonable amout of the Sons of Russ see my point? that I made on page 3?

 

Not really, you example of pack mentality in relation to huron blackheart doesnt work, if what you said was right and the sense of pack mentality was that strong in Space Wolves, they all would have turned immeadiately when Huron killed the current 'alpha'. Also, alongside Huron not being a wolf (and as such cant be seen as contest for an alpha) they would not have turned upon each other in that last fight, they would have all died or all turned, because thats basicaly how pack mentality works.

 

Huron didnt make wolves fall, bad writing did.

[Wispy]

So the a reasonable amout of the Sons of Russ see my point? that I made on page 3?

That's the justification the writer went with, but the Space Wolves are trained and conditioned astartes, not the wild wolves.

 

If it was that easy for Space Wolves to fall, enemies would exploit it and they'd be betraying the Imperium all over the place. It's bad fluff, is all.

 

If that's how it worked, Ragnar would have joined Chaos rather then getting revenge and being made Wolf Lord as a result.

[Grey Mage]

2. Defended the Imperial Palce during the Heresy as the Imperial Fists First company, oh sorry, you were getting your buts kicked by the Thousand Sons -_-

2 Defended the Imperial Palace during the Heresy? Unless I am mistaken,the Black Templars weren't even around then. So either you are going for the benefit of multiple Chapters,or your sense of history is more screwed up then I thought.As for getting our butt's kicked by the Thousand Sons...was that before or after we Razed their home planet to the ground? I can never keep those straight. So again..Nope..Failing on that one too 0/2

Ok, both of you- history lesson time.

 

Requiem- The Black Templars WERE at the battle of the palace. At the time they were still part of the Imperial Fists, under the command of Sigismund, one of his chief lieutenants. They can however show that members of their chapter fought and died on those walls, to try and buy the emperor time to do whatever it was he was doing.

 

Rathul- You obviously missed the battle for prospero- the Thousand Sons fled, their primarch broken and dying, into the warp before the fury of the SWs assault. Theyre world was raised nearly to the ground at this point. The SWs took a solid hit there, but the losses werent as bad as say, anyone who was at the Istvaan massacre. The SWs were always one of the smallest Legions and had the third best track record- right after the Warmaster and Guilleman.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

2. Defended the Imperial Palce during the Heresy as the Imperial Fists First company, oh sorry, you were getting your buts kicked by the Thousand Sons -_-

2 Defended the Imperial Palace during the Heresy? Unless I am mistaken,the Black Templars weren't even around then. So either you are going for the benefit of multiple Chapters,or your sense of history is more screwed up then I thought.As for getting our butt's kicked by the Thousand Sons...was that before or after we Razed their home planet to the ground? I can never keep those straight. So again..Nope..Failing on that one too 0/2

Ok, both of you- history lesson time.

 

Requiem- The Black Templars WERE at the battle of the palace. At the time they were still part of the Imperial Fists, under the command of Sigismund, one of his chief lieutenants. They can however show that members of their chapter fought and died on those walls, to try and buy the emperor time to do whatever it was he was doing.

 

Rathul- You obviously missed the battle for prospero- the Thousand Sons fled, their primarch broken and dying, into the warp before the fury of the SWs assault. Theyre world was raised nearly to the ground at this point. The SWs took a solid hit there, but the losses werent as bad as say, anyone who was at the Istvaan massacre. The SWs were always one of the smallest Legions and had the third best track record- right after the Warmaster and Guilleman.

Very well,I stand corrected. They were not an official seperate chapter at the time and that is where my confusion came from I believe...very well..that brings the total up to 3 out of 12..a solid 25% score.

[Silverwolf]

A whelp hmmmm?

Not to be hating, but lets' get this straight.

 

Edit: ... blah blah blah

 

...Ayway, it's very feesible for a Space Wolf to fall to the Dark Powers because of their practices and fighting only for themselves.

 

 

Edit: 25% score for the BTs

 

Yes,you are a whelp..And like many whelps,occasionally you lose your way,and make a mistake. When that happens,a good cuff around the ears should help set you straight. The thing is,after the first time..generally we lose patience and bite the throat till you realize you made a mistake,or well..They make another one like you and hope that this one comes out better.

 

Now...the fact that you came in here and tried this...Says that you got balls and bravery...Not much brains...But Balls and Bravery are definitely things Wolves can respect. Now..that being said..Those two will only get you so far,and you are at about the edge of it.

 

ahahahaha

 

Requiem brother, you just earned yourself a Landraider full of kegs ;) , no joke I was in tears laughing at half of your replies to that! :D Requiem, part of your post has earnt a spot in my signature alongside WL Kieren.

 

I know he got it a little wrong along the way Grey Mage, but thats was still one of the best posts I've seen in this forum in some time, haha. After reading Rathul's original post as I was reading through this thread I was going to write something similar in reply, but Requiem did a far better job then I would of :).

 

Sorry Rathul, but older brothers of yours have tried and failed the same thing you just had a go at, see my signature ;). However as Requiem said, you get points for having the balls to saunter into the Fang and say that though :).

 

 

++ On Topic ++

 

Given time a wolf could be twisted and turned into making the turn to Chaos, but only ever by Tzeentch, and never in the fashion of that rubbish the Chaos whelps are calling canon :P. That is my standing on this after reading through the thread :).

[Wildfire]

The SWs were always one of the smallest Legions and had the third best track record- right after the Warmaster and Guilleman.

 

I have never heard who was third place as far as winning streaks go, but I do know that DA were in second place. The UM were big and organized, not particularily brilliant tactically. Their pre-heresy record was not stellar.

[Silverwolf]

... DA fan boy I take it? You know your in the Fang now right? :)

 

DA couldn't even keep their own troops in line, let alone go on some big win streak. Learn your own history whelp. Your lads were to busy beating on each other, while your HC held secret councils discussing bad poetry.

[Grey Mage]

The SWs were always one of the smallest Legions and had the third best track record- right after the Warmaster and Guilleman.

 

I have never heard who was third place as far as winning streaks go, but I do know that DA were in second place. The UM were big and organized, not particularily brilliant tactically. Their pre-heresy record was not stellar.

That was in planets liberated, not battles won, sorry.

[Marshal Rohr]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the Huron/Red Corsairs fluff when taken into context of the SW pack mentality.

 

Huron's attack and complete overwhelming force of the Wolf of Fenris could have possibly projected him as an apex predator in the eyes of the Space Wolves that joined forces with him, an alpha to follow like no other they had ever seen.

 

This theory could have played a huge part since the Space Wolves mentality is to follow an alpha from aspirant. When presented with one (Huron) that could so easily overwhelm and destroy them, this mentality just kicked into overdrive as a means to survive.

 

I am sure many of you have seen a nature documentary when a new alpha violently takes over a wolf pack, other males in the pack pretty much lay down with ears flat, bellies and necks exposed in submission.

 

 

 

The Phil Kelly Wolf Fetish strikes!!!!

[Decoy]

The Phil Kelly Wolf Fetish strikes!!!!

 

Yeah, that tends to happen when you're the most awesome Marine Chapter known to mankind. Everyone important loves ya! :)

[Wispy]

the whole alpha wolf thing does not work in any context. savage as they are, the Space Wolves are stilll Astartes and not wild animals. I'll say this again: You are essentially saying that Ragnar would have gone and joined Chaos after Berek was killed instead of avenge him. We know that's not what happened: Ragnar and co. went off for revenge instead, hunted them down, and returned to become Wolf Lord.

[Grey Mage]

the whole alpha wolf thing does not work in any context. savage as they are, the Space Wolves are stilll Astartes and not wild animals. I'll say this again: You are essentially saying that Ragnar would have gone and joined Chaos after Berek was killed instead of avenge him. We know that's not what happened: Ragnar and co. went off for revenge instead, hunted them down, and returned to become Wolf Lord.

Wolves dont follow coyotes, no matter how big, ugly, or lucky.

[Marshal Rohr]

Huron isn't even a Coyote, more like a snake. A badass snake with a flamer hand.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

The idea about pack mentality leading them to follow Huron,is at least an attempt to explain it. Far as I know,Canon wise,It was never explained at all. I do have to fall in on the side of "Wolves wouldn't follow a coyote,no matter how lucky it was in a fight." Even my wife,whose exposure to Space Wolf Culture comes from reading posts over my shoulder,when explained what I meant said "That doesn't make any sense"

 

Now Huron finding a way to subvert a pack before the assault,and thus using that inside knowledge of the layout,whereabouts and so on to take it over..It would actually make more sense to me at least. Though how he managed to subvert them would probably be questioned,it would be questioned less.

 

Hell...I would disagree with any marine chapter having members fall the way its described in that one. Even Dark Angels...Hell...I would even go so far as to say a Imperial Guard unit without a Commisar,would still have a better then even chance of saying "Screw you" and dying rather then turning to Chaos.The Commisar would make it a 100% chance of saying screw you...just because..Well..When I was in the Infantry,my Drill Seargent would have made a damn great stand in for Commisar Gaunt for instance. He never yelled,barely raised his voice much above a loud whisper,and was 10 times scarier then all the rest of the yelling Drill Seargents combined. So yeah..If I ever played a IG army..My Commisar would allready be named Commisar Lanfear.

 

Anyways..as I said once to a Blood Angel player that stated much the same thing as "There is no proof that any Blood Angel has fallen to Chaos", It doesn't allways get written into the storybooks anytime a Marine falls. When that Marine falling causes a great loss of life by doing so,or the loss of a world or as part of a historic event,thats when it goes into the history books. Then a couple posts later someone brought up 3 different examples of Blood Angels going to Chaos so his whole theory was moot.