yperihitikos Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Are there any point effective combinations to counter mephiston? I've read some ideas such as thunderhammer/stormshields terminators in land raiders or 1-2 full lascannon Long Fangs squads, but either they cost a huge amount of points to counter only one model or they are immobile. To begin with, are 6 combi-plasma Wolf Guard in a rhino (173 points) enough to keep him away? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
old git Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Depends on what points you're playing at but here's one; Tooled up Wolf Lord (frost axe, WTN etc) with some wolf guard including Arjac, in a 'raider. Useful against just about everything but against Mephiston, trundle up in the raider, get out within 6", Arjac throws his hammer, hopefully getting a hit and a wound. This reduces Meph to I1 and then the wolf lord and the rest of the guard finish him off. And yes, Arjacs hammer will do this as the rules for thunderhammers in the BRB state that: "... models that take an unsaved wound from a thunderhammer but not killed...reduce their initiative to 1 until the end of the next players turn..." Arjacs Foehammer can be used as a ranged weapon, therefore used in the shooting phase ie before the assault phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Depends on what points you're playing at but here's one; Tooled up Wolf Lord (frost axe, WTN etc) with some wolf guard including Arjac, in a 'raider. Useful against just about everything but against Mephiston, trundle up in the raider, get out within 6", Arjac throws his hammer, hopefully getting a hit and a wound. This reduces Meph to I1 and then the wolf lord and the rest of the guard finish him off. And yes, Arjacs hammer will do this as the rules for thunderhammers in the BRB state that: "... models that take an unsaved wound from a thunderhammer but not killed...reduce their initiative to 1 until the end of the next players turn..." Arjacs Foehammer can be used as a ranged weapon, therefore used in the shooting phase ie before the assault phase. Also bear in mind that as per the blood angels codex,Mephiston has to start the assault phase in base to base contact with an independant character to pull off his enthralling gaze. Just park a Rune Priest within 24 inchs to stop his psyker powers,and you can nuke him down in hth pretty easy. Also,you can do the Drop pod with 6 wolf guard with combi plasma and just use that to rapidfire the hell out of him. Arjac and a normal squad of Wolf guard with power weapons are a very nice way to deal with mephiston,as he can't single Arjac out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Arjac and squad will eat him everytime. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Arjac throws his hammer, hopefully getting a hit and a wound. This reduces Meph to I1 and then the wolf lord and the rest of the guard finish him off. Best talk to your opponent about this one before trying it. There's quite a bit of debate about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 "... models that take an unsaved wound from a thunderhammer but not killed...reduce their initiative to 1 until the end of the next players turn..." Youre quoting a rule for a close combat weapon. Are you making a close combat weapon attack ? No. You using the hammer with the profile 6" S10, AP1. Thats it. There are no special rules in that profile. So as wildfire suggested- best discuss with your opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf363839 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 as a backup plan to Arjac, use a pack of Thunderwolves w/ thunderhammer, or a Thunderwolf Lord. high strength power weapons ruin this guys day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 as a backup plan to Arjac, use a pack of Thunderwolves w/ thunderhammer, or a Thunderwolf Lord. high strength power weapons ruin this guys day. Thunderwolves get instaglibbed by mephy - same with the Wolf Lord. So, unless you have other things taking down his psy powers you're in trouble. Also, dont fall into the trap of dedicating too much to him. Some of the combos people have mentioned here run into 500+ points. Arjac,8 guys, a melta gun and a wulfen with a banner will ruin mephiston in one or two turns (depending on its transport). Everytime I play against Level's wolves Arjac gets my mephy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yperihitikos Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 Mephiston is 250 points. If I'll have to dedicate over 400 points for arjak, a raider and a few more for extra bodies then I would play his game. I'm trying to find a "convenient" solution that could be used in almost any army list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 "... models that take an unsaved wound from a thunderhammer but not killed...reduce their initiative to 1 until the end of the next players turn..." Youre quoting a rule for a close combat weapon. Are you making a close combat weapon attack ? No. You using the hammer with the profile 6" S10, AP1. Thats it. There are no special rules in that profile. So as wildfire suggested- best discuss with your opponent. Actually the rule for Foehammer clearly states that it is a "...thunder hammer that can be used as a range weapon..." which means that it can be used at range with the thunder hammer special rules (reducing initiative to 1 and adding an addtional glancing hit on a vehicle). But I'm willing to accept that other people will interpret that differently. Sorry, not trying to hyjack the thread. As far as how to deal with Mephiston here is what I would do. Ignore him when you can, shut down his phychic powers with your Rune Priests. When you can't ignore him any longer shoot as much high STR low AP firepower as you can before assaulting him with Arjac, leading a full squad of Greyhunters (w/ PF, 2xMG & WS). But I think that if you are trying to specifically bring one unit to take care of him than you are viewing it wrong. You shouldn't take one unit just so it can get rid of another, your army should work together and each unit should be brought with multiple tasks in mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 so back on topic: i would say any kind of heavy shooting would work. or a good amount of CC goodness. arjec, i would imagine would be a good bet, but i have never used him and never plan to. his weapons and rules have been argued many times so if people want to argue them some more, please go to those threads or if they are closed get the hint and please keep to the present topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 The same 300pts of Lascannon and Plasmacannon Long Fangs that are targetting the rest of his army should probly do the trick- 5LFs- 2x LC, 2xPC- 165pts. 5LFs- 2x LC, 2xPC- 165pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 "... models that take an unsaved wound from a thunderhammer but not killed...reduce their initiative to 1 until the end of the next players turn..." Youre quoting a rule for a close combat weapon. Are you making a close combat weapon attack ? No. You using the hammer with the profile 6" S10, AP1. Thats it. There are no special rules in that profile. So as wildfire suggested- best discuss with your opponent. Actually the rule for Foehammer clearly states that it is a "...thunder hammer that can be used as a range weapon..." which means that it can be used at range with the thunder hammer special rules (reducing initiative to 1 and adding an addtional glancing hit on a vehicle). But I'm willing to accept that other people will interpret that differently. Sorry, not trying to hyjack the thread. As far as how to deal with Mephiston here is what I would do. Ignore him when you can, shut down his phychic powers with your Rune Priests. When you can't ignore him any longer shoot as much high STR low AP firepower as you can before assaulting him with Arjac, leading a full squad of Greyhunters (w/ PF, 2xMG & WS). But I think that if you are trying to specifically bring one unit to take care of him than you are viewing it wrong. You shouldn't take one unit just so it can get rid of another, your army should work together and each unit should be brought with multiple tasks in mind. Yea a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon. Once it is used as a ranged weapon, you use the profile included, which does not include the special rules for thunder hammers. Seriously some people... :rolleyes: Back on topic, Rune Priest to shut him down and then Long Fangs to toast him. I will leave my Wolf Lord alive for killing MEQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Back on topic, Rune Priest to shut him down and then Long Fangs to toast him. I will leave my Wolf Lord alive for killing MEQ. Probably the best plan (assuming you don't already run Arjac). Useful units whether or not you are facing Mephiston. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Back on topic, Rune Priest to shut him down and then Long Fangs to toast him. I will leave my Wolf Lord alive for killing MEQ. Probably the best plan (assuming you don't already run Arjac). Useful units whether or not you are facing Mephiston. The point is not tailoring a SW army to beat Mephiston. I mean hey great, I have a 600pt unit to beat Mephiston, but now I have handicapped myself against the other 1750pts in a 2000pt game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yperihitikos Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 A rune priest with tempest's wrath in case it will rain men. One blood angel list I have in mind consists of 3 baals, 2 auto/las predators, 1-2 priests and 29 assault marines in rhinos with power weapons and 5 meltaguns and Mephiston. Or a list with 50 assault marines in rhinos with fists and meltaguns and 2-3 sanguinary priests. Something so massive that if you focus against 1 model the rest can rip you apart and if hou ignore it then this model will rip you apart. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Surely the point is that the points you use to hunt mephiston wouldn't purely be used on mephiston Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldaran Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 a pair of las/plas razorbacks'll do it; if you do face him quite a bit, take hammer wolf guard for five points more than giving him a fist, they look cooler, can't be picked out, and as long as there is a covering wolf priest, will be able to really hurt him. lascannons should put 1-3 wounds on him coming in (assuming you don't kill him outright with the plasma guns as well) and the sheer number of attacks/thunder hammer will finish him off... for lols, try jawsing him ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutr Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 thunderwolf lord with TH or Pf and SS with WTN and saga of the bear... smack him silly and laugh while still being extremely usefull for everything else. or a lone wolf with TH/SS to clobber him on the head even thou it might be slightly hard to catch him due to mobility issues that the lord doesn't have Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Today, one Grey Hunter pack took Mephiston out in one round of shooting. Want to know how? 5 plasma shots, all hit, all wound, no Invulnerable save. Goodbye, Mephy. Seriously, all these OTT units, he's only good in CC so pop a Grey Hunter pack out of a Rhino and firestorm him to death. He's got five wounds, I know, but no Invulnerable save and can't go with a Squad because he doesn't have Independent Character. If that fails, have a nice Instant Death Blood Claw unit nearby to confuse him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Long Fangs and snipers... snipers wound on 4+ Why Waste close combat units on him he will own most of them and they cost more than hi points value... A unit of 5 snipers costswaht? 90 points, and use one of your units of long fangs to target him as well... the rest can focus on armor.. that way you not spending to many points focusing just on meph.... just an Idea... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Like I said,the drop pod with 6 combi plasma wolfguard can be used to deal with him as an almost guarenteed. 12 plasma shots,so chances are good even with average luck he will die. The best part is,that you can use it against almost any army out there. Its almost a guarentee that their will be one unit in every army that 12 plasma shots will deal with,and more then likely they will make their points back and then some. The trick to using this setup,is knowing which units your enemy is relying on. for instance...that squad of Long fangs representing most of his anti vehicle support. The squad of Jump Marines ready to bounce out of hiding and into your troops. The squad of Leman Russ's parked where they can rain hell and fire on your troops,but standing there with the inviting rear armor 10. If your army is built around not having those 200 points you use on throwaways,and your opponent is built mostly around one unit,and you find a way to take out that one unit,his army will suffer alot more then yours will,even with you having 200 points less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 1st off, IMO Arjac is useful vs EVERYONE!!! I love him. I would have little wolf cubs with him. But, if you haven't found the Arjac love that I have, then honestly a 10 man gh squad packing double plasma should do the trick just fine. Plus a rune priest will do wonders for you. Any of your las cannons if you have time to shoot at him (those will prob be needed to take out those fast av13 tanks though). I have a 6 man GH squad in a las/plas razorback that says get me out of my ride while i'm shooting you in the face that can easily be spared for Meph duty. just over 200 points. Here's the set up. Las/Plas razorback, wgpl with fist (mine has a stormbolter, but a combi plas or melta works just fine) 5 gh's and you can kit one with a PG or MG depending on taste (mine run with meltas). It's a wonderful scoring unit, has lots of flexibility and is pretty cheap. At least one of these units fits in all my lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mar Bloodaxe Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Back on topic, Rune Priest to shut him down and then Long Fangs to toast him. I will leave my Wolf Lord alive for killing MEQ. Probably the best plan (assuming you don't already run Arjac). Useful units whether or not you are facing Mephiston. I do this as well and what Grey Mage suggests with using Long Fangs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barret Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I know I'm not a Wolf, but my solution would be a brace of Vindicators. Of course, that's my solution to everything... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/#findComment-2429931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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