Requiem of the Wolf Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 sketchy at best...Cheating at worst. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 No he just started him out in a squad and when I questioned it he started talking about a librarian rule where it mentions their unit so he must have a unit This is ridiculous... Mephiston is not an IC, he is a one man unit. So no unit for him for ablative wounds. Period! Your friend should know this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarmb Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 No he just started him out in a squad and when I questioned it he started talking about a librarian rule where it mentions their unit so he must have a unit This is ridiculous... Mephiston is not an IC, he is a one man unit. So no unit for him for ablative wounds. Period! Your friend should know this. He should, but it's a reasonable mistake. I know if I had just gotten my hands on the codex and hadn't really done my research online I probably would have assumed the unit was an IC or acted like one. It's just so unusual for characters not to be. Certainly the player in question was mistaken but I don't see any reason to start to jumping to conclusions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Im not going to bad mouth the bloke because I think it was an honest mistake but there were a few of these honest mistakes from an experienced player I haven't been playing that long but these are the things he tried to do I used the runic staff to nullify psychic powers and he claimed that he could do that to He shot at my rhino with a melta gun and then claimed that the rest of the squad could then shoot at my disembarked grey hunts He claimed that Mephiston couldn't fail an initiative test because he was I7 and it was one D6 until I got the book out to show that a throw of 6 is always a fail and he still went to speak to some of the lads who run the group I wouldn't have wanted to call him a cheat but im not sure even as a new player that teh things he said above was right Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldaran Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Im not going to bad mouth the bloke because I think it was an honest mistake but there were a few of these honest mistakes from an experienced player I haven't been playing that long but these are the things he tried to do I used the runic staff to nullify psychic powers and he claimed that he could do that to He shot at my rhino with a melta gun and then claimed that the rest of the squad could then shoot at my disembarked grey hunts He claimed that Mephiston couldn't fail an initiative test because he was I7 and it was one D6 until I got the book out to show that a throw of 6 is always a fail and he still went to speak to some of the lads who run the group I wouldn't have wanted to call him a cheat but im not sure even as a new player that teh things he said above was right 1. He doesn't get the runic staff ability; he gets a psychic hood test - both players roll a D6 and add leadership; if he equals or beats your score, the power is nullified - it's not a simple roll-off, if he gets 4+ it's blocked. 2. he can't do that; the rest of the squad essentially shot at the rhino and it bounced off. 3. you showed he was wrong there. From the sound of it, he knew full well that mephiston was a non-IC, and was counting on you, being an inexperienced player, not to know that. Not cool on his part, unfortunate on yours. Find a decent player, and then steam-roller him when you've got a few more games under your belt. :mellow: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 He should, but it's a reasonable mistake. I know if I had just gotten my hands on the codex and hadn't really done my research online I probably would have assumed the unit was an IC or acted like one. It's just so unusual for characters not to be. Certainly the player in question was mistaken but I don't see any reason to start to jumping to conclusions. Dont worry their are more unusual things in the 40k universe eg: Zoanthrope being Synapse creature but the Doom (being a souped up Zoanthrope) is not a Synapse bug. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Im not going to bad mouth the bloke because I think it was an honest mistake but there were a few of these honest mistakes from an experienced player I haven't been playing that long but these are the things he tried to do I used the runic staff to nullify psychic powers and he claimed that he could do that to He shot at my rhino with a melta gun and then claimed that the rest of the squad could then shoot at my disembarked grey hunts He claimed that Mephiston couldn't fail an initiative test because he was I7 and it was one D6 until I got the book out to show that a throw of 6 is always a fail and he still went to speak to some of the lads who run the group I wouldn't have wanted to call him a cheat but im not sure even as a new player that teh things he said above was right I'm not sure if you are a young kid who isn't comfortable with confrontation or just a nice guy but your opponent sounds like he was a real piece of work You don't need to put up with that kind of crap. You'll never move up towards alpha if you let people roll you like that. Study the rules when you have time so nobody can pull BS tricks on you. It isn't boring studying WH40K :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I hope that failed Initiative Test was from Jaws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I hope that failed Initiative Test was from Jaws. It is odd,but in wandering through every chapters's forums...its only Blood Angel Players using Mephiston as a focus that seem to have the rampant amnesia of rules. Seriously,the real Blood Angel players need to step up and purge these pretenders from their number. And no I am not saying that its only the BA's that have dubious players..I am just saying that I only seem to come across them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2431963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I'm sure many of them newcomers who look at a T6 S6 marine and salivate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarmb Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I'm sure many of them newcomers who look at a T6 S6 marine and salivate. There is also the fact that a great deal of people just plain don't study the rulebook, or even their own codex. They just kind of pick things out and expect to either "Run with it" or that somebody else to sort out any rules issues if they're doing something strange. The BA codex is the newest one, and so the one people have seen the least number of issues over. The sort of player that just sort of grabs things and plays is bound to wind up making all sorts of faulty assumptions and silly mistakes. It's just human nature that we tend to do those things in our own favor most of the time. I don't see why people are so eager to assume everything is so sinister. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Durendal Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 As mentined, most effective way to tie up and kill Mephy: Lone Wolf, SS, Th, 2X Fen Wolves. - 105 Pts Run this guy straight at Meph. Sure Meph will strike first and inflict several wounds...but thats why you got your 2 meatshields. It will drastically reduce how many saves your LW will have to take. And on the back side, whether you charge/are charged, for the first round you'll have 3 rerolled TH attacks that hit on 4s and wound on 2s. So you're definitely looking at getting at least 1 wound in, and the following turn he's I1 alongside you. And if you played your cards right, a nice unit of TWC or something would be near enough to charge in and join in combat, and kill him through sheer number of hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MylesTheTroll Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 As mentined, most effective way to tie up and kill Mephy: Lone Wolf, SS, Th, 2X Fen Wolves. - 105 Pts Run this guy straight at Meph. Sure Meph will strike first and inflict several wounds...but thats why you got your 2 meatshields. It will drastically reduce how many saves your LW will have to take. And on the back side, whether you charge/are charged, for the first round you'll have 3 rerolled TH attacks that hit on 4s and wound on 2s. So you're definitely looking at getting at least 1 wound in, and the following turn he's I1 alongside you. And if you played your cards right, a nice unit of TWC or something would be near enough to charge in and join in combat, and kill him through sheer number of hits. QFT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Are you allowed to do this? Say Mephiston is straight ahead. 1. place your Fenrisian Wolves right in front of your Lone Wolf, so they're obviously in between the Lone Wolf and Mephiston 2. Mephiston charges, but because there's two Fenrisian wolves, he can't get base to base to allocate attacks directly to the lone wolf and has to attack the fenny's. 3. Fenrisian Wolves, are, of course, slaughtered and removed. You pile in, and are now base to base to Mephiston and able to allocate attacks towards him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MylesTheTroll Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 No, simply because the Lone Wolf isn't an IC. Rereading the FAQ I can see how it could kind of be confusing, but I believe it all comes down to whether the unit in question is an IC or not, even though the example in the FAQ shows an IC w/ 2 Fenrisian Wolves bought as wargear attached to a unit of Blood Claws count as 3 units in an assault. Hope this makes sense as it does in my mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 That is interesting take on the rule, one I'm not so sure about. Lets assume it behaves as if he were an IC - just in case my opponent disagrees - can I still do what I just described? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MylesTheTroll Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Yes since they would count as 2 seperate units with one of them being an IC. Otherwise, the Lone Wolf and the two Fenrisian Wolves would be somewhat of a retinue or something. Like I said, it all circles back to whether or not a unit is an IC or not. At least, that's the main arguement against that fantastic situation you gave that I see other players stating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Well, the fantastic situation I just described could easily apply to a wolf lord, perhaps looking to head Mephiston off - they both have fantastic charge ranges - just as easily as it could a Lone Wolf. In the event of the Lone Wolf not behaving that way, it's also convenient. Mephiston will score 4 or 5 wounds on average - the Lone Wolf can save 1, and dump the rest on the wolves, and then pay him back. A terrible way to treat such loyal pack members, but it has to be done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yperihitikos Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 Which one would work better and still be useful in other games? A wolf lord or 2 lone wolfs (with the above wargear)? One lone wolf isn't fast enough to catch him. Propably he''ll avoid him and attack something better. If there are two of them, someone will hold him until he's dead or until reinforcements (the second lone wolf) have arrived. The best part is that meph can't use his trasfixing gaze on them and as I understand the rule about thunderhammers, even if the first LW is dead as long as he managed to score one wound he remains easy prey for one turn at I1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2432408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 My understanding is that Fen Wolves only count as ablative wounds while being shot at. In Close Combat they act as a separate unit? or does that not count because a Lone Wolf is not an IC and so they act as a single unit in Close Combat? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2433085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 They're part of his wargear, like Structure Points on a Warhound. That's the closest example I can think of :S Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2433097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Except that the same goes for the ICs like a Wolf Lord. I believe the FAQ states that they act independently in close combat. Or perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2433125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Are you allowed to do this? Say Mephiston is straight ahead. 1. place your Fenrisian Wolves right in front of your Lone Wolf, so they're obviously in between the Lone Wolf and Mephiston 2. Mephiston charges, but because there's two Fenrisian wolves, he can't get base to base to allocate attacks directly to the lone wolf and has to attack the fenny's. 3. Fenrisian Wolves, are, of course, slaughtered and removed. You pile in, and are now base to base to Mephiston and able to allocate attacks towards him. Wont work as you must put as many models in base to base during cc as possible (p33) And the lone wolf isnt a IC. Heck Mephiston cant even target an IC when he has a Retinue eg Sm Command squad or DE Incubi ret. etc etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2433152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liltom Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 As a Blood Angels player, I figure I might as well chip in a bit. Only fair, after so many of you have been posting about how to beat Space Wolves in the BA forum :lol: Tar pits might seem good, but so far as solutions to bad ass characters go they kind of play to his strengths. He has high initiative and attacks, a good armour save and feel no pain. He's going to munch through basic units suprisingly quickly, and you're going to do very little to him until you start ignoring the save and feel no pain. Play to his weakness, once you're past his other saves there is no invulnerable for him to fall back on. Power fists are a good idea. He's going to be striking first anyway, so you might as well have something to deal with his high toughness. Just make sure you charge him with something big enough that he doesn't kill the fist straight up. Remember, he is quite likely to attack first even if you charge. I think plasma pistols are actually quite a good way of dealing with him. He doesn't like plasma one bit, and 2 or 3 pistols can really make a difference when you're about to charge him with all his wounds and toughness. And again, it's working around his strengths (high initiative, toughness and basic saves) and working to his weaknesses (Non IC, no invulnerable save) Still, I'll be honest with you. The way you're really going to ruin my day is if you shoot him to death before he even starts chopping. I've seen him go through a squad a of genestealers with broodlord, a trygon prime, a mawloc and three carnifexes. There isn't really a proper, reliable and points effective way of taking him out in CC without tailoring your list to a stupid amount. Just plasma him right in the face, over and over again. It might seem like you're dedicating more fire power to him than is worth it, and it's possible that you might be, but it's going to be a whole lot worse in CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2433163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 As a BA player I have to say that plasma fire is the way to go. Also if you want to minimize the damage he deals try fielding squads of 5 with plasma gun and pistol. Mephiston is only 1 model so he won't ever be double charging you and if he kills a squad you can just use the rest of your squads to kill him. Of course any form of Psychic defence lowers his power considerably. I don't think the lone wolf will bother Mephiston, you can't expect more then 1 wound at best and will only ever get to fight mephiston if the BA players allows him to. If as mentioned above there's a convenient squad of thunderwolf cavalry (I assume that what the TWC stands for) then the BA player will just ignore the lonewolf and use his 19 to 24 inch threat range to attack the cavalry instead, most likely killing them before they ever stood a chance. Still on principle I'm against trying to counter specific lists or models as this case happens to be. I suggest instead of trying to counter just mephiston to just play an army you would take to a tournament where you don't know what your opponents will field. As long everyone plays like that you'll have a lot more interesting games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203750-space-wolves-and-mephiston/page/3/#findComment-2433589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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