How to beat the SW super pack?

[Darter]

ANy one have an idea on how to beat the ragnar and logan tag team which rides around in a LR accompanied by 2 wolf packs and 3 squads of 5 RL long fangs. I think there is a priest with JOTWW as well?

[SamaNagol]

se your fast vehicles to take out the Long Fangs asap and send some sacrificial Melta to disable the Land Raider then run away from the contents if possible.

[Wildfire]

Kill the landraider and dance around them.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Kill the landraider and dance around them.

 

Also known as the Muhammed Ali approach ;-)

 

Fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee!

[Korraz]

Killing the LF is easy.

Destroy the LR and throw Demolisher-Shells on them. Then laugh.

[Crimson Devil]

Exploding fire hydrant, we can't resist it. :D

[Tokunator]

Kill the LR with Attack Bikes or Suicide Melta Troops whilst suppressing the Long Fangs by ramming your Baals into their faces (and Flamestorming/ Assault Cannoning them).

 

If you get them out of the car, either run away or hammer them with everything you have in one go. Remember that Ragnar's Furious Charge does NOT work during Counterattack (the silly FAQ was reversed on that one), so apart from the two characters, the members of the unit will strike after you. Drown them in people. Ragnar is not an Eternal Warrior, so he can be killed by a couple of Sergeants with Fists or Hammers (take two to make sure that he is down) and even Grimnar only has a 4+ invulnerable save, so put enough power weapon attacks on him and he will die. If they are accompanied by a Wolf Guard or other bodyguard, ignore Grimnar and try to wipe out Ragnar and the bodyguard before dragging Grimnar down by forcing him to run away.

 

Optimistically, two full Assault Squads with 2 Meltas each should be able to pop the Land Raider and then wipe them out on the charge. Including a Librarian for Unleash Rage and keeping a Sanguinary Priest nearby will improve your odds. Having 30 men instead of 20 might be better, but this will be difficult to achieve.

 

Remember that Ragnar, Logan and a Land Raider are over 750 points without a bodyguard, so they should take up such a large chunk of his points that dedicating 3 or more units to killing them is appropriate. As the Germans said 'Nicht kleckern, klotzen' (don't spill drops on them, drop bricks).

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I really only have one question. Why would anyone field a unit like that?

 

If I were taking Grimnar I would avoid the eggs-in-one-basket approach. He'd get a terminator retinue and go cruising in a pimped out Crusader.

 

Assuming I took Ragnar as well, he'd end up in a unit of Grey Hunters, probably travelling in their Rhino.

 

Denying the charge is important with Ragnar, he is extremely vicious and confers furious charge on the unit he leads (you know what that does). Logan not so much, counter attack and his ability to select a new rule for his squad in your phase means that he can dish out the damage just as well when charged as when charging.

 

Like all assault units, shooting them up is the best option. Reduce their mobility by killing their transport (Logan is very bad for that because he can't ride in anything other than a Land Raider) then just shoot them till they die.

 

If they're close enough that you can't avoid assault then let them destroy one (small) unit and then shoot them again. That's an exception to the "don't let them charge you" rule. A five man scout unit would be ideal for standing in their way.

[SamaNagol]

The only point in taking Logan is to unlock the Wolfwing build. And that's based around mixed armour units.

 

But the premise is the same. A Wolf Lord with a Frost Blade, Runic Armour, Storm Shield, Saga of the Warrior Born and a nice big unit of friends with him in a LRC isn't much fun.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

The only point in taking Logan is to unlock the Wolfwing build. And that's based around mixed armour units.

 

But the premise is the same. A Wolf Lord with a Frost Blade, Runic Armour, Storm Shield, Saga of the Warrior Born and a nice big unit of friends with him in a LRC isn't much fun.

And it still involves around 800 points worth of troops in one area. When facing a Deathstar unit like that,you have to dedicate enough points to deal with it,or find ways to prevent it from doing anything.

 

In a case like this...its ok to spend half your army stopping that unit...because it involves half of his army.

If i were playing the Blood Angel player..I would toss a Blood talon Dreadnaught and a squad of jump pack troops with infernus pistols and melta guns at the raider. Use the jump troops to melt the raider,Charge the squad with the Dread and the Jump troops. You might not kill them all,but you will make the remaining squad severely weakened. You don't focus on the independant character,you wipe out his 15 friends and make that Wolf lord take a bunch of armor saves. chances are good he will fail one or two. Use your Powerfist to go after the Character as normal,since you want to be able to do instant death. With Furious Charge for your Dread,and the jump troops,you will lose at most 6 troops,if the lord gets counter attack (likely)hits with all 6 (4 out of 6 is more likely) and wounds with all 6 (of the 4 that likely hit,2-3 will wound on average)Your Dread will be able to rip up the Blood claws that are with him,and get to keep hitting. The jump troops will be able to do some serious damage to any survivors,and worst comes to worse the lord. Same with the Dread actually..I don't know offhand which would have the higher initiative...I just know you want to inflict as many casualties as possible. So even at best,your likely to win the fight by 9...so the Wolf lord has to make 9 armor saves if he fails the initiative test and will likely fail 1,maybe 2 if he is unlucky. if he succeeds,then just consolidate to within 6 inches and run the lord off the board. If he is still standing then you continue the fight. Either he will try and stop the dread,which means he gets one attack on a 3+ if he has MB and WTN that still needs to pen (decent chance),and then either immobilize or destroy the dread(decent chance but not even close to assured),otherwise he has nothing that can harm the dread and it will either tie it up or eventually kill the lord. If you throw two dreads and the jump pack..an approximately equivalent amount of points...you stand a very good chance of wiping the whole squad out.

 

As for the Long fangs? A Jump pack squad deepstriking on top of them works nicely. Just have to make sure thiere isnt a Rune priest with Tempest's wrath nearby. If there is,drop outside the range and jump pack 18 inches in,then take the tests for assaulting..you might lose a couple,but Long fangs are not incredibly good in hth compared to other Wolves.

[whitewolfmxc]

Throw a bone in front of the unit and see them fight over it XD ok kidding

 

who would bring such a unit ? lol too many eggs in one basket

[Priest33]

Nice thing about this thread, plenty of Wolves piping in to give advice as well and no bickering! Also bonus points for no one mentioning any special characters to deal with special characters! Double that for the fact no ones just gone "durr just use Mefiston (spelt that way) hes uberly and will kill everything!"

 

Hit them up with a assault squad with melta's and charge with your own unit of 5 ass terms with LC's and TH/SS with a term Reclusiarch and a priest. Nothing says Lolwut like full rerolls ;)

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Nice thing about this thread, plenty of Wolves piping in to give advice as well and no bickering! Also bonus points for no one mentioning any special characters to deal with special characters! Double that for the fact no ones just gone "durr just use Mefiston (spelt that way) hes uberly and will kill everything!"

 

Hit them up with a assault squad with melta's and charge with your own unit of 5 ass terms with LC's and TH/SS with a term Reclusiarch and a priest. Nothing says Lolwut like full rerolls

Thats because most of us know that mephiston is there purely as a distraction for most serious armies. He is big and scary and has this gigantic target painted over his head...but he is too squishy to take down a heavy deathstar unit all by himself. And I like to think at least that some blood angels would pipe up with recommendations if it were reversed.

[SamaNagol]

Yeh, sending 18" movement Rhinos/Razorbacks with nasty assault troops at the isolated Long Fangs and then popping smoke means they probably won't likely be able to do as much damage as they otherwise would do. And to take out that unit you will have to use 2 units worth of shooting at the bare minimum.

[Corby]

@ Priest 33

 

 

 

 

 

 

"durr just use Mefiston"

[Decoy]

@ Corby:

 

 

Hurp Durp, Arjak splats Meffy. Lawl.

 

 

On topic: Yeah. Really, you shouldn't have any trouble with that Supersquad. The guy's an idiot for taking that squad, and the rest of his army will suffer. Just drop Plasmacannon/Vindie shots on 'em, and otherwise, just avoid close combat.

[Corby]

@ Corby:

 

 

Hurp Durp, Arjak splats Meffy. Lawl.

 

 

On topic: Yeah. Really, you shouldn't have any trouble with that Supersquad. The guy's an idiot for taking that squad, and the rest of his army will suffer. Just drop Plasmacannon/Vindie shots on 'em, and otherwise, just avoid close combat.

 

 

Every one knows space wolfs are terrible in close combat. Don't try and hide it. :)

[Decoy]

Yes. We're hurrible. Hurrible, hurrible in close combat. In fact, you could just set up about six inches away from Thunderwolf Cavalry and have nothing to fear. :)

 

 

Back on topic... Three five-man squads of Long Fangs? Wielding Missile Launchers (Since I don't know what an RL is)? I'm failing to see the issue... This Wolf army seems to be -exceedingly- stereotypical proof of the old saying, "Shoot the assaulty stuff, assault the shooty stuff."

[Corby]

Yes. We're hurrible. Hurrible, hurrible in close combat. In fact, you could just set up about six inches away from Thunderwolf Cavalry and have nothing to fear. :)

 

 

Back on topic... Three five-man squads of Long Fangs? Wielding Missile Launchers (Since I don't know what an RL is)? I'm failing to see the issue... This Wolf army seems to be -exceedingly- stereotypical proof of the old saying, "Shoot the assaulty stuff, assault the shooty stuff."

 

 

Thunder cats are a pain. I made the mistake of thinking 'Ha I can charge them with my Assault terminators' 1 round later and I had 5 dead termies. I did roll horribly for their saves though. ;)

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Yes. We're hurrible. Hurrible, hurrible in close combat. In fact, you could just set up about six inches away from Thunderwolf Cavalry and have nothing to fear. B)

 

 

Back on topic... Three five-man squads of Long Fangs? Wielding Missile Launchers (Since I don't know what an RL is)? I'm failing to see the issue... This Wolf army seems to be -exceedingly- stereotypical proof of the old saying, "Shoot the assaulty stuff, assault the shooty stuff."

 

 

Thunder cats are a pain. I made the mistake of thinking 'Ha I can charge them with my Assault terminators' 1 round later and I had 5 dead termies. I did roll horribly for their saves though. :(

I had a Black Templar using 7 Twin claw Termies make that very same mistake about my Thunderwolf Lord. He did manage to keep my Wolf Lord busy for a turn and a half though so it wasn't a total loss for him.

[MayorDaley]

A cost effective unit to deal with your buddy's deathstar would be a ten man squad of Sternguard. Arm five with combi-meltas, five with combi-plasmas, and put them in a drop pod. When the 'pod comes on the table is when you combat squad them; the 'meltas open the LR up, and the rapid fire plasmas should cook them nicely. I have used this on my pal's Ragnar-LR-o-doom to great effect. The beauty of this unit is when you combat squad it, he can only wipe out 5 sternguard in assault.

[SamaNagol]

250 pts will deal with it neatly.

 

100pts worth of Multi Melta Attack Bikes and 150pts worth of Vindicator.

[Wildfire]

A cost effective unit to deal with your buddy's deathstar would be a ten man squad of Sternguard. Arm five with combi-meltas, five with combi-plasmas, and put them in a drop pod. When the 'pod comes on the table is when you combat squad them; the 'meltas open the LR up, and the rapid fire plasmas should cook them nicely. I have used this on my pal's Ragnar-LR-o-doom to great effect. The beauty of this unit is when you combat squad it, he can only wipe out 5 sternguard in assault.

 

Completely untrue. He can multi-assualt both of them.

[MayorDaley]

He can multi-assault both squads if you set them up like a dummy!?! Sorry, I assumed that was implied. :rolleyes:

[Lynnean]

hmmm.... BAAL predators. just give them too much saves that squad needs to make, and they will fail.