Plasmacannon delivery systems.

[ShinyRhino]

What do you folks feel is the best way to deliver plasma cannons onto a target in the following situation:

 

You have a unit that pops transports. It can be anything, really, so long as it can reliably force one unit out of its ride each turn. You then have plasmacannons that fire at the now-disembarked passengers who are nicely clustered.

 

Do you take a single plasma cannon no multiple squads/units, or one large concentration of them on a Dev squad? The multiple units are able to contribute a lot more small-arms fire within 24", and you can land blast markers in succession after each unit shoots, or move on if the threat has been effectively neutralized (via shooting leading to poor numbers, morale tests, etc).

Or, do you take multiple plasma cannons on one Dev squad, all of which fire together for maximum possible wounds at once? No saves are made until all of your shots have rolled to wound, so there's no chance the opponent can remove casulaties to reduce the number of hits you get per blast.

 

How about the LOS factor? Multiple units can have multiple LOS to the target, whereas the Dev squad has just the one LOS, which may be obscured by the wreck or crater, or eliminated entirely by terrain or units.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

For vanilla Marines, plasma cannons in Tactical Squads are 5 points. That's it, five, and they can fire out of the roof hatch of a Rhino. That's how my Iron Hands do it -- peel APCs with lascannons and meltas, and the Tac Squads pour bolter and plasma fire on the contents.

[DarkGuard]

I also only use mine in Tactical Squads. Did use them in Dev Squads but the possibility of Gets Hot! cuts down your firepower, and while you have many other plasma cannons they are 25pts each, that's a lot of points. In Tactical Squads they are better I feel due to the low points cost.

 

I've also considered using one on a Dreadnought, which can have one for cheap as well. A single Dread with PC would be less than a Tactical Squad, doesn't suffer Gets Hot! and can still put up a decent fight in combat. Only downside is that a lucky shot can kill it in one (but that's why you take two).

[Meatman]

I'm looking into running a dread with plasma cannon behind a rhino to defend an objective, you can easily maneuver it so the dread can fire the plasma cannon but will get a save from the rhino obscuring it. Seeing as LOS is from the weapon on vehicles. 115 points for the dread with cannon. Not too much investment, and can be a decent counter assault unit if the enemy gets too close, and can fire the cannon before charging!

 

Oh and no "gets hot rolls" :huh:

[Jackelope King]

I don't use them. They're inefficient at opening vehicles (I run autocannons, which have a better range and rate of fire). They get a mighty one chance to wound MCs per shot. And the only platforms where I'd use them have other roles (my Tactical Squads need Multi-Meltas to help them control mid-field, and my Dreads are almost always Rifleman Dreads or standard Dreads).

[Warprat]

Last week I got 27 hits off my 2 cyclone missle launchers in one volley. While that is unusually good, it only caused about 3 MEQ dead after wounds and armor saves. Just think if that had been 4 plasma cannons. I think 4 plasma cannons would put the fear of the Emperor in anybody.

 

I currently run 4 Tactical squads, each with one plasma cannon. I love them... and my opponents fear them, but you get dimmishing returns for sequential hits. A full Devestator strike would be more hit or miss due to intervening terrain and so forth. But if it has line of sight... WOW!

 

Would be well worth taking a Sanguary Priest in Blood Angel Devestator squads.

 

Warprat ;)

[minigun762]

I've also considered using one on a Dreadnought, which can have one for cheap as well. A single Dread with PC would be less than a Tactical Squad, doesn't suffer Gets Hot! and can still put up a decent fight in combat. Only downside is that a lucky shot can kill it in one (but that's why you take two).

I fully support this post.

 

Assuming you have your long range transport needs covered elsewhere, which is easy with Combi-Predators and Typhoons, a PC Dread makes for a great all purpose unit. Keep the DCCW and you'll be a threat to any heavy infantry or take a Missile Launcher and you have the option for 2 blasts or 2 high S low AP shots to take wounds off of MCs and the like.

[LardO'Blood]

Maybe 2 MM, 1 Plasma cannon and 1 heavy bolter in a 10 man devastator squad? Put it in a rhino and you get decent protection and a hatch to bust the tank and fire at the infantry through.

[Trozen]

When I use the standard codex, my plasma cannons are in Tacticals shooting out of rhinos. They make a great heavy weapon powerful enough to stand still to use, yet cheap enough to not feel obligated to do so.

 

On standard footslogging dreads I prefer them over assault cannons, but haven't been using it as much since I'll have up to 3 from my Tacticals and need the extra anti-transport from a rifleman.

 

In the C:SW I always have it on my 'count as Bjorn.' It is a great weapon on him for it adds to his range and compliments his BS. There has only been one occasion a necessary shot completely whiffed.

[Giga]

Tactical squads are best plasmacannon platforms as far as vanilla marines are concerned. Getting 2-3 plasmacannons (depending on the number of tacs in your army) is absolutely great, especially since you can combat squad to make sure you get some use out of each plasmacannon.

 

Failing that, 5 men sternguard unit with two plasmacannons is also pretty good, and becomes even better if you get pedro.

 

EDIT: I used to run a dreadnought with a plasmacannon. Never was worth it, really, considering the overall points cost.

[Fatuous]

Either tacticalas cos they are cheap, or dreadnaughts, a ven dread would prob be a good delivery system cos more chance to hitwith higher BS (1" less diviation on a small blast template can make a difference).

 

that said, I haven't been able to get myself to pay the rather large price hike for a ven over a regular one.......... and generally prefer more numerous dreads over pricey ones......

[Velkairiwyth]

I like dreadnoughts and abusing 5 man sternguard squads. 5 men in a rhino - two with plasma cannons - then if you need to move or are not mounted - the bolters have an awesome array of ammo meaning every member of the squad can contribute to MEQ/MC killing which is what these guys specialise for :) plus a heavy weapon with 2 melee attacks = nice ;)

 

I find mass frag missile fire does the job well too - typhoons = sweet.

 

One note about the devistators - having more than a couple of plasma cannons is probably not necessary. I would suggest taking a ML unit with a single Plasma cannon - and use the Sgts Signum to give the plas cannon a BS 6 (meaning yo get to reroll that gets hot roll. As long as its not another get hot roll your shot goes off :P )

[ShinyRhino]

use the Sgts Signum to give the plas cannon a BS 6 (meaning yo get to reroll that gets hot roll. As long as its not another get hot roll your shot goes off :tu: )

 

IIRC, the signum gives BS5, not 6.

 

Good points, all. I think I'll go with the MSU approach to plasma cannons. Maybe two tac squads with one each, and a Sternguard squad with two.

 

I played in a game last night where this exact situation came up. I wrecked an Ork trukk with an assault cannon, spilling the Nobz and Ghazgul out. I then opend up with frag templates from my Devastator squad with three missile lainchers (one of the original 4 was already dead).

11 hits, 6 wounds. Two failed 2+ armor saves. I was silently lamenting not having plasma cannons in that squad, where I could have fried the whole unit instead of two measly wounds. The Devs were lined up perfectly for the shot, allowing no cover saves. :ermm:

[Ming]

IIRR a demi-sternguard squad (5 marines) with 2 plasma cannons is CHEAPER than a demi-dev squad with 2 plasma cannons....and does a heckuvalot more damage (special ammo bolters). Of course with Ardias (aka Kantor) leading, the sternguard are also scoring...(this is exactly why nearly every list I build uses them...)

[thade]

I'd have to agree with the consensus that a tac squad is the most cost effective and practical way to get plasma cannons onto the field. I seldom field more than one. It can still offer some mild anti-vehicle (Str 7, average scatter 2-4 inches) and AP 2 small plate is kind of nice.

 

The reason that plasma cannons cost more in dev squads is that you can stack them like whoa. And, to be fair, a few volleys from a plasma cannon dev squad would decimate almost any infantry unit in the game (even giving would alloc Nob units pause, I bet) so that's probably why it's more expensive. Consider the Executioner tank from the new IG dex...basically the same thing, except more mobile than the dev squad (and can be taken out with a single lucky shot). Given the expense though, and the limited applications, I can very much understand people either going with the cheaper (and arguably just as effective) ML dev squads, or forgoing dev squads altogether. I do like Devs, but I'm weird by the standards around here. :)

[Velkairiwyth]

My apologies, it is indeed BS5 :/ Ah well!

 

And I dont see Devs being too bad if used correctly. One way could be a 5-man squad in a rhino... 2 plasma cannons and have a semi-mobile fire-base. If its shaken, your a bit screwed, but if its popped, you still get to shoot in your next round... but I would be more inclined to do so with a Sternguard squad as mentioned previously ^.^ (145 points for Sternguard 2A each special ammo and can be made scoring, V 140 for 5xDevs with 2 Plasma Cannons, a Signum (BS5... meh.) and only 1A each.)

 

I am seriously tempted to start fielding Devestators again - I have 3 Predators, and have had a major fallout with them being the most immobile firing base in my army. I find the dakka predators do next to no damage, Combi/Annihilators are a bit too expensive for what they do unless your fighitng a mechanised army - so yeah... small dev squad/sternguard squad with heavy weapons FTW ^.^ ) Although Full dev squad, 4x plasma cannons combat-squadded is def worth considering. Keep em close together with a Rhino - and if you really need to move - you have transportation... Squishier than a Predator but I think I prefer the firepower output and the fact one lucky shot shouldnt wipe em if they are in cover ^.^

 

Im rambling...

 

I like this thread. Makes me think of shiny things.

[DarkGuard]

Besides the afore-mentioned cost of plasma cannons on Devs the other problem I can see is Dawn of War deployment. You can't deploy them, so they need to footslog, meaning you have to spend a couple of turns to position themselves before firing.

 

Tactical Squads in this situation can already set up in that building and Dreads can move on and fire, and both for cheaper. Sure it's Night Fight but you'll still struggle for the best firing positions with 7"-12" movement. It was this lack of effective mobility and points cost that saw me drop them for Land Speeders and Dreads and Vindicators.

[pattison]

I simply love the plasma cannon.

For some reason it is the most "bad ass" marine weapon for me and it can hurt almost anything.

I always have 1 or at least 2 of them in tactical squads, and they can indeed make a difference.

In majority of the cases I use Razorbacks, so the plasmas can sit back together with 4 bolter marines each in their combat squads.

The plasma for me works as a defensive weapon, as sooner or later during the game some infantry (~troops) will come within 36" of my objective.

I have other things to pop transports with and it's just priceless to burn the stacked enemy troops to smoking goo with one or two good plasma shots!

That 5 points is simply a bargain for such a potent weapon. Yeah, it gets hot and it scatters, but when it does not...