Wolf Standards and IC's

[Martok]

Hey all,

 

I have a Lord with two powerfists and saga of the bear in a raider with a grey hunter squad carrying a wolf standard.

 

When the Squad reveals the banner does the Lord get the re-roll ones bonus? In the rulebook it states that if a squad has furious charge etc then the IC would gain the ability. Also the wolf standard rules state "that unit may re-roll all 1s" and the rule book states that when an IC joins a unit he is part of that unit......

 

What do you guys think? I checked the FAQ but I couldn't see this or though i may have missed it.

 

- Martok13

[TiguriusX]

An IC is part of the unit when he joins.

 

He gains the benefit and it makes GHs a very good unit to join if you have Runic or TDA (2+ save)

[Michaelus]

Behold the wondrous item from the SW armory: The Wolf Banner!

 

This ancient and super-cheap relic is a must for every Grey Hunters pack out there, and certainly worth its weight!

 

It allows you to reroll every single "snake eyes" you get in the assault phase! How cool is that?

 

And also, ANY kind of attached guys will ALSO benefit from the Banner!

 

Having trouble saving your Lord's holy ass in his Runic Armour? Then buy our Wolf Banner ASAP! (Shipping price and readjustment price not included)

 

In short: They get the rerolls..

[Alba]

on the back of the original post what about this situation:

 

lets say...Rune Priest in Runic Armour attatched to a Grey Hunters squad, its their assault phase and I choose to use the standard. I am in combat/charge for arguments sake say a group of 20 genestealers, they have the higher initiative so they attack first.

 

lets say 30 attacks hit, and 20 wound, with no modifiers to the armour save, could I take all the armour saves on the Rune Priest. If so lets say i save 15 and role 5 one's. Due to the Standard I could reroll these. If I was really unlucky and rolled another 3 ones could i reroll them? The codex says you can reroll all one's, it doesnt say how many times in succession you can use it.

 

Is this possible / Game legal?

[Avarris]

To my understanding it allows you to re-roll but not re-roll a second time, otherwise i think that would be quite unfair

[Michaelus]

Game legal? No. Unfair? Hell yes.

 

There is this page in the rulebook that said: You can't reroll a reroll though..

[JamesI]

The rulebook states that you may never reroll a rerolled die.

 

And with wound allocation, it would be quite illegal to put every wound on the priest anyway.

[CainTheHunter]

lets say 30 attacks hit, and 20 wound, with no modifiers to the armour save, could I take all the armour saves on the Rune Priest. If so lets say i save 15 and role 5 one's. Due to the Standard I could reroll these. If I was really unlucky and rolled another 3 ones could i reroll them? The codex says you can reroll all one's, it doesnt say how many times in succession you can use it.

 

Nope, only one re-roll. If it was as You proposed, the rerolling would go on and on until all "1-s" would be re-rolled :tu: - making characters in TDA and runic armor immortal.

[the akratic]

I'm not as well versed in the rules as many others on this forums, but I'll take a crack at that.

 

First off, the scenario you presented is a little bit weird. Remember that ICs act as separate units in combat, so the tyranid player controlling the genestealers actually gets to decide how many of them are swinging (clawing) at the RunePriest; you don't actually get to allocate wounds like that to an IC.

 

Second, I believe that when you allocate your wounds, everyone needs to have one before you can start stacking wounds on someone.

 

That aside, you can never re-roll something more than once! So no, you wouldn't be able to re-roll the ones that you failed the second time.

 

Trust me though, it's still worth taking the wolf standard, always, on every grey hunter unit. Especially if you plan on attaching an IC.

[rodgambit]

on the back of the original post what about this situation:

 

lets say...Rune Priest in Runic Armour attatched to a Grey Hunters squad, its their assault phase and I choose to use the standard. I am in combat/charge for arguments sake say a group of 20 genestealers, they have the higher initiative so they attack first.

 

lets say 30 attacks hit, and 20 wound, with no modifiers to the armour save, could I take all the armour saves on the Rune Priest. If so lets say i save 15 and role 5 one's. Due to the Standard I could reroll these. If I was really unlucky and rolled another 3 ones could i reroll them? The codex says you can reroll all one's, it doesnt say how many times in succession you can use it.

 

Is this possible / Game legal?

 

 

First off your opponent would have to designate which genestealers are attacking your rune priest in close combat because he is an IC. Only models in base to base or within 2" of the base to base models could put attacks on the rune priest. So first off you could not take any wounds on the rune priest that were directed against the squad. To answer your question, you may not re-roll a re-roll.

[Mantinel]

also to this, all models with base to base contact with any model must attack that model AND while charging the attacker must try to engage as many models as possible in B2B

[Alba]

heh heh, I thought as much!

 

just wanted to be totaly sure in case I was missing a trick!

[Martok]

@Alba - That would be one hell of a trick.

 

That's good to know no more feeling guilty when my Lord pulverises all. He runs terminator armour, two powerfists (so I can actually get the +1 for 2 ccw) and wolf tooth necklace so on the turn his squad charge from the raider he can re roll all failed armour saves (as the only fail is a 1) and also reroll im most cases all failed to wounds (as the majority of enemy units will be 2+ to wound)

 

So he always needs 3+ to hit (reroll 50% of misses)

He almost always wounds on 2+ (reroll 100% of misses)

And then 2+ save (reroll 100% of fails)

Finally 5++ (reroll 25% of all fails)

 

= Sweet

 

He has singlehandedly gutted units and his grey hunters just add the extra wounds to wipe out most units even in power armour.

 

- Martok13

[Black2Jack1]

also to this, all models with base to base contact with any model must attack that model AND while charging the attacker must try to engage as many models as possible in B2B

 

I thought that if my squad of 8 was in HtH with another squad and only 4 of my units were in base contact the other 4 still within two inches I could still remove casualties from the back. Are you saying I must remove my pack leader if he is in the front? Along with two guys in the front if I take the appropriate wounds?

[JamesI]

also to this, all models with base to base contact with any model must attack that model AND while charging the attacker must try to engage as many models as possible in B2B

 

I thought that if my squad of 8 was in HtH with another squad and only 4 of my units were in base contact the other 4 still within two inches I could still remove casualties from the back. Are you saying I must remove my pack leader if he is in the front? Along with two guys in the front if I take the appropriate wounds?

Anyone in the squad can take hits (except ICs, they have to be targeted seperately).

[stinkenheim]

also to this, all models with base to base contact with any model must attack that model AND while charging the attacker must try to engage as many models as possible in B2B

 

I thought that if my squad of 8 was in HtH with another squad and only 4 of my units were in base contact the other 4 still within two inches I could still remove casualties from the back. Are you saying I must remove my pack leader if he is in the front? Along with two guys in the front if I take the appropriate wounds?

 

i think he meant to say 'all models with base to base contact with any model must attack that unit'.

you assign woulds in the same manner you do from shooting so you do not have to put wounds on models in b2b contact if you do not want to. assuming that is yo have not taken too many wounds, in your case if you took 5 wounds you don't need to put one on the PL. If you take 8 or more then you would need to.

[TiguriusX]

I'm not as well versed in the rules as many others on this forums, but I'll take a crack at that.

 

First off, the scenario you presented is a little bit weird. Remember that ICs act as separate units in combat, so the tyranid player controlling the genestealers actually gets to decide how many of them are swinging (clawing) at the RunePriest; you don't actually get to allocate wounds like that to an IC.

 

Second, I believe that when you allocate your wounds, everyone needs to have one before you can start stacking wounds on someone.

 

That aside, you can never re-roll something more than once! So no, you wouldn't be able to re-roll the ones that you failed the second time.

 

Trust me though, it's still worth taking the wolf standard, always, on every grey hunter unit. Especially if you plan on attaching an IC.

 

Hell of a post for someone who fears they are not well versed in the rules

 

Have an ale on me brother!

[Wispy]

While we're on the topic of the standards, I have a math hammery question for those who are skilled at number crunching! I am generally curious - is the standard our equivalent of a BA blood chalice? This leads me further to question... Which is actually more effective, Blood Chalice on a BA Assault squad, or an assault-kitted Grey Hunter with standard?

 

Kitted out this way, trying to spend the same amount of points for each:

Assault Marines: 9 Guys, 1 Priest, Powerfist, Rhino - 265 Points

Grey Hunters: 9 guys, 1 Wolf Guard w/powerfist, Standard, Wulfen, Power Weapon, Rhino - 248 points

 

The BA jump packs make it weird to equal points to wargear value, so I DO assume transports in the costs for both, and they are pretty standard kit anyways.

 

Lets do it twice...

1. assume Blood Angels get the charge and Space Wolves make the counter attack and are declare the use of their standard.

2. assume the Grey Hunters get the charge and declare the use of their standard.

 

So, using math hammer, dropping both armies respective metagames for just a moment, who wins this assault on average?

 

(I'm of course, assuming no shooting.)

 

I am going to assume the Blood Chalice wins out, but I'm curious as to how much better it actually is then a fully assaulted kitted pack of Hunters..

 

I'm aware of how complicated a request this is, whoever figures it out is my hero.

[wiplash]

It allows you to reroll every single "snake eyes" you get in the assault phase! How cool is that?

 

you cannot however re-roll 1's on things things that are 2D6

 

e.g. leadership or meltabombs

[Wispy]

Yeah, because the FAQ claims you can never get the result of 1 on a 2d6. So chain fists, too, I'm assuming.

 

I'm also assuming their is a positive side this when we have to roll a D3, and we hit a two. Just as the final results on a leadership roll of two 1's is a actually 2, the final result of a roll of 2 on a D3 is actually 1.