sniperhavens Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Maybe Im slow but I just finished reading Thousand Sons and I dont understand all the references to ''there are no wolves on Fenris'' they keep referring to the wolves as if they are daemons or something unnatural. Anyone have any input on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 There's some speculation that Fenrisian Wolves are not Wolves at all, but Canis-Helix-ed Space Wolves that didn't make the cut. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 The Horus Heresy novel A Thousand Sons actually points to an earlier period, probably during the Dark Age of Technology, when the settlers were experimented upon in order to give them a chance of survival on our beloved deathworld called Fenris. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 There's some speculation that Fenrisian Wolves are not Wolves at all, but Canis-Helix-ed Space Wolves that didn't make the cut. Wrong. The Horus Heresy novel A Thousand Sons actually points to an earlier period, probably during the Dark Age of Technology, when the settlers were experimented upon in order to give them a chance of survival on our beloved deathworld called Fenris. Right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black2Jack1 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 So does this also explain our massive Thunder Wolves? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 This topic hurts my brain, searchy searchy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 So does this also explain our massive Thunder Wolves? It doesn't explain anything. It really is only Magnus spouting off to a couple of his captains about the Fenrisian wolves and how he can see their genetic makeup. My opinion is that during the Dark Age of Technology, the Imperium was sending out colony ships to the far reaches of the solor system to colonize planets. Each ship would have been "seeded" with animals best suited to the planet they would be sent to. Fenris has mammoths. Is this a coincidence that mammoths just ended up evolving exactly the same way they did on Earth? Fenris has wolves. Is it a coincidence that wolves just ended up evolving exactly the same way they did on Earth? Same could be said for the elk. These animals were originally brought with the colony ships and have adapted/evolved to Fenris in unique ways in respect to the environment and the existing creatures. Thunder wolves just happened to evolve into the apex predators of Fenris. Now what Magnus wants you to believe is that the original settlers of Fenris were genetically altered to survive on Fenris and that Fenrisian wolves are descendant from these original settlers. He states that there is no way possible that the original settlers could have survived on Fenris without genetic manipulation. I think this is bunk since we have evidence of Catachan, stated as being the most infamous death world in the galaxy, that produces Catachan Jungle Fighters. We have evidence of the death world Cretacia and the human inhabitants being used by the Flesh Tearer chapter. Of course look at from who the infamous "there are no wolves on Fenris" line comes from, Magnus. A pompous arse who believes so much in his own power and control of the "Great Ocean" he damns his entire legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Bloodhowl Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 This has already been discussed (use the search) but as far as I can remember it was that magnus could see the genetic make-up of the Fenrisian wolves and saw them to be 'unnatural', as if they were vat grown like the primarchs. They are not a naturally occurring species but one which the first fenrisian settlers created from scratch/their pet dogs. Decoy is partially right in the Canis-Helix thing though in that the wolves have this gene in them, like the space wolves do. I'm not sure how or why but I would guess it was to increase their survivability. I have to disagree with Brother Ramses on the whole catachan thing though, i mean, think about it: Catchan is covered in jungle with a variety of deadly plants and creatures that can kill you in seconds; Fenris has a variety of creatures that can kill you in seconds, as well as freezing temperatures in winter and boiling ones in summer, not to mention the multiple volcanoes and the fact that there is only one stable land mass on the entire planet. Given the choice, I'd go to Catachan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 This has already been discussed (use the search) but as far as I can remember it was that magnus could see the genetic make-up of the Fenrisian wolves and saw them to be 'unnatural', as if they were vat grown like the primarchs. They are not a naturally occurring species but one which the first fenrisian settlers created from scratch/their pet dogs.Decoy is partially right in the Canis-Helix thing though in that the wolves have this gene in them, like the space wolves do. I'm not sure how or why but I would guess it was to increase their survivability. I have to disagree with Brother Ramses on the whole catachan thing though, i mean, think about it: Catchan is covered in jungle with a variety of deadly plants and creatures that can kill you in seconds; Fenris has a variety of creatures that can kill you in seconds, as well as freezing temperatures in winter and boiling ones in summer, not to mention the multiple volcanoes and the fact that there is only one stable land mass on the entire planet. Given the choice, I'd go to Catachan. Where are you getting that the wolves have the Canis-Helix in them? Decoy is wrong. That b.s. has been spread around by so many people and yet has no written support anywhere. The Canis-Helix was present in the SW Legion before Russ was ever found on Fenris because it was in his original geneseed that the Emperor created the legion. And read up on Catachan. It is a lot more then just a jungle that is trying to eat you all the time. I would much rather be on Fenris then Catachan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black2Jack1 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 And read up on Catachan. It is a lot more then just a jungle that is trying to eat you all the time. I would much rather be on Fenris then Catachan. Agreed, also down wind from any Apex-Predator would be nice too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 In fact, Fenris is said to be in the tern of "the worst place to be born" award, although Catachan is the winner. At least fluffwise. I have to point out anyway that at that levels of planetary aggressiveness against humanity it really doesn't matter where I would want to be: To me there is no difference between being eaten alive or poisoned to death within 24 hours than within 22 hours... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 And by the way I have always wondered: if Catachan produces such good warriors, why not using it as a recruiting planet for an Astartes Chapter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Durgann Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Have to leave something for the Imperial Guard... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Have to leave something for the Imperial Guard... No, no we dont actually. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2430968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Have to leave something for the Imperial Guard... No, no we dont actually. WLK I might just sig this! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2431838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvid Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I'm sure if a fleet based chapter swung past then you'd end up with a couple of catachan marines at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2431861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Son of Russ Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I thought fenrisian wolves were a native species to Fenris even before any SMses or Russes turned up :( Can't eveyone agree that Fenrisian Wolves are normal indigenous wolves to a new planet? Anyway Magnus was and is a PSycho, look what he did to his chapter, and if this de-evolved SM story was true then wouldn't it be in the codex? But then again it doesn't tell the truth about Sanguinius Turning chaos in the BA codex. I dunno :angry: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2432596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Mutated humans... no Mutated Astartes... no Despite Magnus being a foolish, traitorous prick, he did gather a tremendous amount of knowledge that had been "lost" during Old Night. Some of the details of pre-imperial colonization would have been among that. So its logical he knew some of the things the colonists did in order to bring life to alien worlds. Russ and the people of Fenris are very pragmatic and tend to disregard what they see as superfluous. The "how's and why's" of an animal are not as important as the "is" that it exists. Vat grown from modified DNA... Highest probability. (It occurred a lot of other places, including bringing back long extinct species) Alien creature resembling a wolf... Also a decent probability. (Fenris does have alleged xenos species) Still the thing that gets me, every time this topic comes up, is that the Tutelaries could be seen by the wolves. And those little daemons were scared of them... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2432673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Mutated humans... no Mutated Astartes... no Despite Magnus being a foolish, traitorous prick, he did gather a tremendous amount of knowledge that had been "lost" during Old Night. Some of the details of pre-imperial colonization would have been among that. So its logical he knew some of the things the colonists did in order to bring life to alien worlds. Russ and the people of Fenris are very pragmatic and tend to disregard what they see as superfluous. The "how's and why's" of an animal are not as important as the "is" that it exists. Vat grown from modified DNA... Highest probability. (It occurred a lot of other places, including bringing back long extinct species) Alien creature resembling a wolf... Also a decent probability. (Fenris does have alleged xenos species) Still the thing that gets me, every time this topic comes up, is that the Tutelaries could be seen by the wolves. And those little daemons were scared of them... Animals sense earthquakes and other natural disasters. In our own history, it has been said some animals are spiritually "attuned". I have mentioned this before but a major device in the battle between the magical and physical has always been the "bestial spirit" being the worse enemy of the magical. Several times in the book we see evidence of the SW ferocity astounding the 1k Sons. We also have Russ' howl that is mentally devastating to the 1k Sons by the sheer rage in how it is emitted. Primal fury shatters spiritual, period. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2432753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Theres loads of examples of genetically modified animals, the horses used by IG rough riders are a good example, the ones use on Tallarn are engineered to need less water etc. I'd imagine that just like the orginal settlers used the STC machines to make machines that they needed they'd also have something to make animals suited to local envioments... part of a sustainable colony would require an ecosysystem of stuff that you can eat, ride or use to hunt with. On fenris the machine would have to engineer something pretty tough to survive! The wolves are as wolfy as they're gonna get all things considered. Magnus was blatantly just mouthing off... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2432763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcm979 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Oh, please. You lot are handed a plot point on a platter and you ignore it because you don't like the messenger? Look, the Tutilaries were Daemons. No normal wolf, no matter how gene-bulked, would scare an immortal monster made of pure malevolence. Plus, there's this line: His eyes met those of the beast, and he saw into its heart, the alien core of the being beneath the mask of the wolf. His eyes widened in recognition, but it was too late to do anything except fight. I bet he's wrong too, hmm? I bet NcNiell just put that in to make up word count. After all, it's not like 40k fluff has ever been changed before, and- Oh, sorry. My sarcasm-o-meter just exploded. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2432793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Bloodhowl Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Oh, please. You lot are handed a plot point on a platter and you ignore it because you don't like the messenger? Look, the Tutilaries were Daemons. No normal wolf, no matter how gene-bulked, would scare an immortal monster made of pure malevolence. Plus, there's this line: His eyes met those of the beast, and he saw into its heart, the alien core of the being beneath the mask of the wolf. His eyes widened in recognition, but it was too late to do anything except fight. I bet he's wrong too, hmm? I bet NcNiell just put that in to make up word count. After all, it's not like 40k fluff has ever been changed before, and- Oh, sorry. My sarcasm-o-meter just exploded. Well said Pcm979, I was trying to get at something like that (that they are not natural creatures) but I wouldn't go as far as to suggest they are daemons (if that's what your getting at). Plus I know we're Space Wolves, but we seem to be being very biased about the 'person' who spoke these lines of which we are debating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2432827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcm979 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 No, I'm not suggesting that the wolves are Daemons. I'm trying not to speculate too much, actually, because I'm pretty sure it'll be expanded upon in Prospero Burns or a later HH SW book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2432850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Oh and just for the record of Deathworlds Cretceia>Catachan *Mind my spelling been up for 2 days drinking and just got back* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2432941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeenos Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Just think.. if the Thunder Wolves were failed Space Wolves.. then your actually ridding your Brothers around in combat! *pictures a pair of Space wolves charing into battle piggyback* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/203844-no-wolves-on-fenris/#findComment-2433202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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