Including Typhoons in a list

[Captain Idaho]

So what is the best method of taking Typhoons in a list, how many is optimum? Should they be squadroned all the time or never? Should they be squadroned when supporting what kind of Space Marine list? Should we always stick to just the Heavy bolter?

 

These are some of the queries floating about my mind and recently I have had cause to question my usual opinion of these awesome vehicles. I always assumed 2 solo flying Typhoons was the optimum way of fielding them, being able to target separate units, are separate targets themselves and move to separate objectives last turn if neccessary.

 

However, having witnessed Waaaniel use them in pairs and experienced them solo myself I found them to underperform in my lists and be very powerful in his game. The reasons for this is rolling a fist full of dice at a target works better than a couple dice at a time, as it plays the odds more in your favour.

 

On a related note, I faced a solo flying Typhoon in a Vulkan list in the GT and it was underwhelming. That could have be his use of it though, as he mis-handled it a little with target selection and placement. However, the thing did have a Multi-melta too. I thought that made it too expensive though, as the ranges of the weapons don't match up well. The theory seems to work though, 3 S8 shots seems good...

 

So what do people think about the questions asked above?

[DerekLee688]

In my mind there is no set number to take, the bigger the army, the more typhoons you take. If you have two typhoons and two open FA slots and aren't scared of two "easy" kill points, then I see no reason to not take them seprate. If you take them separate use them individualy against vehicles, but together on infantry.

 

I've gotten the most milage from them by using Kraks on MEQ and frags on anything softer. One typhoon can be reasonably expected to put three wounds (two unsaveable) on MEQ squads.

 

I've only used them in 1500pt games, but the principles of target saturation, Lanchester's Square Law, and the fact they are dangerous against everthing except AV14 on all facings I'd take maybie one per 500pts you can build?

[DarkGuard]

I'm a big fan of the Land Speeder Typhoon, but have never been a big fan of running them in squadrons as I therefore cannot target separate units. However, I did run a couple of them together (in separate slots) and when they combined their fire the results were quite good. At the moment I only run the one, but find that it's nuisance factor is pretty good, especially when my opponent feels he has to ignore it when there is my rifleman dread, my Sternguard, Vindcators and scoring units to consider. Keep them at the edge of their range and force your opponent to commit towards destroying them.

[Brother Xeones]

If you have two typhoons and two open FA slots and aren't scared of two "easy" kill points, then I see no reason to not take them separate.

 

Well I don't personally use this unit so take my two cents with that in mind. However, it seems to me that there would be one more reason for which you might want to squadron: That is to take advantage of the rule for multiple template weapons in a single unit (this still works for vehicle squadrons, right?).

 

If you plan on zipping around and flinging frag templates at light infantry, you might want to consider squadroning so that your opponent can't remove models before you lay down your next two or three templates. The difference between firing 3 Typhoons separately (removing casualties in between) and firing 3 Typhoons together might be significant if you are trying for maximum wound saturation.

[DerekLee688]

Then would you rather have max effectiveness agiant as many vehicles as possibl or max anti-infantry? Orks and nids I'll go for squadron, but mech guard and marines I'd deffinatly would rather have them seprate because I'm probably not even using templates.

[Brother Xeones]

That's kind of what I was thinking.

 

If you are busting transports or anything else with kraks, then it would be more advantageous to run single speeders to maximize efficiency and avoid overkill (from a purely shooting perspective at least). However, you still have to reconcile the factors of kill points and FA slot usage as well as the inherent rules for squadrons.

[pattison]

My favourite unit.

2x1, 2x2 or 3x1, depending on rest of the army and the total points.

Not as bad in squadrons as it's being said, I even have the most convincing experiences with my Typhoons in the 2x2 set-up.

My opponents simply hate them no matter what race. In my 40k community I'm the only one who uses them.

And yes, I always take the stock heavy bolter. The typhoon launcher is expensive enough alone.

[DerekLee688]

If you love them, then units of one may not be possible in large games of 2000pts+.

[Meatman]

I always take them in squadrons, it means they can always be on the move while they are still alive and hence stops them being stunlocked like low armour can, you can also "wound allocate", so you can put that penetrating hit on the one that may have already lost its missiles.

 

Also helps with cover saves. Consider a typhoon with a standard speeder, 140 points, keep the standard one out of LOS and you get a cover save all the time until one dies.

[Koremu]

The advantage of a Typhoon Land Speeder is its range advantage. This means that an enemy who wants to fire at a Land Speeder Typhoon often has to use the kind of long ranged weaponry that comes with relatively small numbers of high STR shots.

 

Because of the way hit allocation works on Squadrons, you can make a Squadron with a 'sacrificial' Land Speeder with a cheaper armament (say, Heavy Bolter + Heavy Flamer). This Land Speeder can be kept out of LOS (the better to generate a Cover Save for the whole unit), and used to soak hits.

 

You can also use more or less the same technique with one Typhoon within a Squadron. Once a Typhoon is shaken or has lost its missile launcher, it's just another sacrificial.

 

All of the above basically means that Land Speeder Typhoon Squadrons are quite hard to destroy rapidly, and VERY hard to lock out via shaken results.

 

 

Regarding Weapon selection;

 

Although Typhoon + Heavy Bolter is considered the 'standard', a slightly more risky variant is to use a Heavy Flamer. This then gives the Typoon the capability to rake dismounted infantry with a Template and 2 defensive frags.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I've never had any problems with Typhoons. They always seem to perform perfectly. I get a little worried about taking MM/HF speeders because whenever I play against my wolf buddy, the crap always hits the fan with them. However, my typhoons never seem to take a hit. The secret? Range. For 90 points, 2 missiles and 3 HB shots on a fast moving platform really perform well.

[Mysticaria]

I like a squadron of 2. I've found that 4 krak missiles is a good volley that can really affect one target a turn. I know there is potential there to waist some overkill, but in playing it out I've found this is rarely the case. Most often I try to target AV11 or AV12, and I hope for 3 hits (2.64 is avg) and of those needing a 3 to even glance means that best case scenario I am getting 2 penetrating hits... which as we all know may not be enough on the vehicle damage chart. I am not interested in stunlocking anything. I want to pop that transport... and 4 krak missiles at AV11 is not even guaranteed, let alone overkill. Yeah, I know there is also the possibility of doing something with a heavy bolter, but needing 3+ to hit and generally needing 6 to glance means anything I get from that is a bonus and I can't plan on that with any sense of confidence.

 

That said, it is safe to say I don't consider wasted firepower to be a negative of squadrons. Not being able to contest two objectives is possibly a problem, but honestly unless I am really really winning then both land speeders are probably not going to still be alive on the last turn anyway. I like the squadron rules since they can still move when they take hits. Getting imob is basically death for a skimmer anyway so it doesn't bother me that imob turns into a wreck on the first one. To me the squadrons rule is most often better.

 

Never tried anything besides heavy bolter, but can't imagine multi-melta being very helpful. That's not the kind of range I want something that expensive and fragile to be operating.

 

-Myst

[Captain Idaho]

Weighing up peoples opinions I'm leaning to the squadron of 2 Typhoons, as it complements my style of multiple armoured threats. I will use them to hang back and fire away at things, safe in the knowledge that they are unlikely to be targetted in preference to the Transports.

 

That is my conclusion for my own mech style list, but what about gunlines or drop pod lists or Alpha Strike lists? Or Dread lists? I can see the virtue of solo flying Typhoons supporting a gunline.

[Gaz1858]

Although Typhoon + Heavy Bolter is considered the 'standard', a slightly more risky variant is to use a Heavy Flamer. This then gives the Typoon the capability to rake dismounted infantry with a Template and 2 defensive frags.

 

Although im not a fan of Land Speeders that sounds like a phenomenol idea!!

[Jackelope King]

nsidered the 'standard', a slightly more risky variant is to use a Heavy Flamer. This then gives the Typoon the capability to rake dismounted infantry with a Template and 2 defensive frags.

The only reason I'd disagree here is that the ranges overlap really, really poorly. The Typhoon is nice because it lets you snipe from long-ish ranges with Krak missiles or pelt dismounted infantry with frag blasts from equal range while still usually getting those three extra heavy bolter shots. You trade off those extra three shots every turn for occasionally getting that big template shot in, and even puts you at risk for taking glancing hits from your own frag shots (very rare, I know, but still annoying).

[Koremu]

nsidered the 'standard', a slightly more risky variant is to use a Heavy Flamer. This then gives the Typoon the capability to rake dismounted infantry with a Template and 2 defensive frags.

The only reason I'd disagree here is that the ranges overlap really, really poorly. The Typhoon is nice because it lets you snipe from long-ish ranges with Krak missiles or pelt dismounted infantry with frag blasts from equal range while still usually getting those three extra heavy bolter shots. You trade off those extra three shots every turn for occasionally getting that big template shot in, and even puts you at risk for taking glancing hits from your own frag shots (very rare, I know, but still annoying).

To be honest I find it's relatively rare that the Heavy Bolter is that much use. I'm either firing Kraks at targets the HB doesn't dent much (if at all), or I'm mopping up enemy Infantry with Frags.

 

The Heavy Bolter looks better on paper, but a Heavy Flamer is a very practical choice to have around. I'd take one of each per Squadron.

[Brother Tual]

It doesnt matter what load out you pick as long as you use it properly. The heavy flamer increases options. Thats all. You dont HAVE to use it all the time.

 

On topic, I run them as single model units. Why? Fairly expensive for a 'fragile' platform. Doubling up is limiting and only increases survivability under certain desirable circumstances. Anything with decent volume/str (assault cannon, scatter laser, multi laser or auto cannon etc) will shed your units where as before you would only loose one. The option of a fragile offensive unit which costs alot of points which is lost to such common weaponry is a risky choice in any tournament setting. In taking two different units, you get the same fire effect as you can always fire at the same target if you wish. The loss of template loading is acceptable. If you are getting a large amount of hits and this costs you 3 extras hits who cares, you are smacking the enemy anyway. I dont really see any significant advantages in taking a multiple model unit other than for kill point reduction. The rules dont give any advantages as the risk of loosing both is increased and you cant split fire.

 

I run two in two single units and deploy in the back corners. 3 reasons why. Anything that deep strikes on them is going to take a risk going in a corner. You generally increase range (which you have plenty of) AND it gives you a great corridor to move (forward or behind your force) to get some better angles. Theses better angles give you a massive advantage when facing most vehicles as you get side armour shots. The st8 becomes a significant tank buster when used like this. A typhoon form directly infront of an imperial size tank at 24' can move 12' sideways and make side armour shots. Your enemy cant stop this without using terrain or other tanks. At extreme range it is harder to hit side armour BUT then you have the typhoon on the other flank which WILL be able to hit side armour. Use range and use the flank to optimise your angles.

 

By all means, if you are runing other FA slots, Double up. I commented on your tourney trial list too mate.

[pattison]

If you love them, then units of one may not be possible in large games of 2000pts+.

I rarely play 2000+ games, but as I wrote: for me they perform best taken in squadrons of 2x2. I own 5 of them, but never came to use all in one game.

[Haecon]

We run 2000 pts where I play. I use a squadron of 3 Typhoons w/ HB/ML and another of 3 Tornados MM/HF. I like 6 Krak shots at monsterous creatures or 6 Frag and 9 HB shots at a 30 strong ork/gaunt unit all from the "safety" of range. I find both units are money for me even when they end up dead by the end of the game.

[Giga]

I think typhoon is best used in the standard loadout; heavy bolter + typhoon missile launcher.

 

I'm probably going to run a squadron of 3 someday. I just like the idea of all that massive firepower unleashed against a single target + it also makes it very hard to play the wound allocation game. Killing MCs in a single turn of shooting from a single unit seems like too fun an opportunity to miss.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah, even 3 in a unit is value for points. It is the equivilent of 6 Missile Launchers and 3 Heavy Bolters on highly mobile platforms.

 

Personally I will stick to pairs as then it ensures any overkill is lessened, but I would love to see a game where someone had full squadrons! Just picture it, 9 Typhoons all firing in one turn...

[Giga]

9 typhoons would be an impressive sight... But then you realize those 9 typhoons cost 810 pts and are still only AV10. :/

[Koremu]

9 typhoons would be an impressive sight... But then you realize those 9 typhoons cost 810 pts and are still only AV10. :/

They'll destroy anything that can kill them faster than it can kill them.

 

Kill Gap FTW

[Giga]

Well, that depends a lot on the availability of cover, LoS-blocking or otherwise, nature of the opponent, reserves, etc.

 

Either way, it sure would be an awesome sight. ;)

[Zynk Kaladin]

9 typhoons vs 9 typhoons. That's right I said it!