Grim Dog Studios Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Spoiler Alert to anyone who hasnt read A Thousand Sons! Whilst reading A Thousand Sons, on the part where Russ is re-united with Magnus at Ravens aerie 93 , it seems to me he treats Ahriman as a lesser and mostly ignores him even when complimented, i know ahriman is a lesser compared to the wolf king, but it is shown in a rather rude manner. Would this be the fact that Ahriman is a thousand son, or would he treat all astartes like this, even his warriors? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I think it was fairly obvious that he does not approve of the Thousand Sons and their ways of warfare at all. He showed no respect for Magnus, either. We haven't seen him interact with any other marines from other legions yet. Sigh. We'll be waiting for Prospero Burns for quite awhile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2432870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 Another question, was he a psyker, because at one part didnt he howl or something and it killed a load of thousand sons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2432881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
old git Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Doubt it. Just the power of a primarch being too much for the enhanced senses of a space marine to bear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2432883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 and lets not forget who's perspective this book is from... it would hardly fit to have russ coming out with card tricks and kissing babies. he either respected you, or didnt. there is no middle ground. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2432911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulweih Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 The way I see it, Leman Russ treats Magnus like a dear brother who he thinks(and is right to do so!)got on the wrong path. He doesn't like the Thousand Son's way and what they've gotten themselves into and so obviously doesn't hold the first of Magnus sorcerers in high regard. Yet I think he is something between a father and king for his own warriors, but has no intention to show that on the outside or rather for not everyone to see. Plus for the psychic effect, didn't it mention his warcry was just that awesome, anathema to the psychers like his sword and armour? As we are talking of the Wolfking here ;) . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2432913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 All the Primarchs were Psychers, they just expressed those powers in different ways- kind of like they were also all navigators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2432944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guganation Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 The most interesting insight about our beloved Father Primarch was when Magnus (or was it Ahriman?) concluded that Russ kept up the image of the unstoppable savage to outsiders. It seemed they were saying that Russ had his reasons for allowing people to think him less than he was, and did so by projecting the facade of a barbarian. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2432947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacho Wolf Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Yeah, I think it had something to do with him wanting people to think he was a barbarian, so that if they fought him they would underestimate him and get their @$$s kicked even worse than they would if they thought he was a genious Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Hell yeah Russ was a psyker. I believe all the Primarchs were. He got away with hating the 1K Sons the same way two Librarians had the balls to testify against them at the Council of Nikea. No one likes the 1K Sons. Nuff said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Thats because theres an important difference between being a psycher and being a sorcerer- sorcerers make deals with warp entities to increase their powers via ritual pacts. Psychers, ala librarians and GKs, channel the raw power of the warp through channels determined by the disposition of their subconscious mind, wich can be tamed and controlled without being subverted to anothers will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 All the Primarchs are Psykers to some extent I believe however for some of them it is innate like Russ whereas The One Eyed Sorcerer practices the art Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergelmir Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 We also have to remember that 1K Sons was written from the perspective of that legion. Hopefully Prospero Burns will shed greater light! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guganation Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Thats because theres an important difference between being a psycher and being a sorcerer- sorcerers make deals with warp entities to increase their powers via ritual pacts. Psychers, ala librarians and GKs, channel the raw power of the warp through channels determined by the disposition of their subconscious mind, wich can be tamed and controlled without being subverted to anothers will. Great post. I agree completely. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlSkaven Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 The most interesting insight about our beloved Father Primarch was when Magnus (or was it Ahriman?) concluded that Russ kept up the image of the unstoppable savage to outsiders. It seemed they were saying that Russ had his reasons for allowing people to think him less than he was, and did so by projecting the facade of a barbarian. I agree especially since Russ wrote so many tactica for the Imperial Guard and the other Astartes!!! He was a genius in matters of War! ex: A Book of Admonitions for the Legiones Astartes, Meditations on Imperial Command (he wrote about 20 books for meditations on Imperial Command), De Natura Belli and other notable books. He played the part of barbarian but he was a powerful psyker and writer on matters of command and war! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Ok, thanks guys for the help. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Yeah thats the GW defined difference, but its the thinnest of justifications. Ask a Black Templar what the difference is. They'll say that they have to kill the Psyker without witnesses. The Librarian/Sorcerer thing is poorly handled with the Council of Nikea imo. Not all of the 1K Sons had daemonic helpers. You got a helper when you rose high enough in your respective cult I believe. So MOST of the 1K Sons were psykers and not Sorcerers by GWs own definition. Therefore, in typical douche fashion, the Emperor(THE psyker) had Psykers testify against other psykers...for using psychic abilities. If you want to think that most of the 1K Sons were sorcerers thats cool, but thats not the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 The difference is huge. Its the difference between putting your numbers into a calculator or doing them in your head. Even if lesser 1ksons didnt have direct pacts with demons, they certainly used the rituals that had been passed down from them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2433959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 The Wolves are my Chapter's greatest allies and friends. I agree with Russ, but I'll play the devil's advocate for now... Even from the perspective of the 1k sons, Russ was all to eager to kill his brother. Now you can say he was told by Horus to kill his brother and, yes, as Warmaster Horus's word is equal to the Emperor's but this is not just whacking your brother upside the head for being an idiot. This is KILLING your brother, even if he was your least favorite which really shouldn't make a difference. I'm not saying what Russ should have done because we haven't see his side of the story yet, and I'm not saying Magnus should have been let off the hook for disobeying his father, but it seems like Russ took too much pleasure in destroying the 1k sons. Obviously the book will be bias towards the 1k son's perspective, but I just wanted to touch upon the 1k son's side of the issue. I believe the Wolf King is a tactical man, even in his appearance. His belligerence belies his brains, which in the case of Ahriman is portrayed perfectly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2434052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 The Wolves are my Chapter's greatest allies and friends. I agree with Russ, but I'll play the devil's advocate for now... Even from the perspective of the 1k sons, Russ was all to eager to kill his brother. Now you can say he was told by Horus to kill his brother and, yes, as Warmaster Horus's word is equal to the Emperor's but this is not just whacking your brother upside the head for being an idiot. This is KILLING your brother, even if he was your least favorite which really shouldn't make a difference. I'm not saying what Russ should have done because we haven't see his side of the story yet, and I'm not saying Magnus should have been let off the hook for disobeying his father, but it seems like Russ took too much pleasure in destroying the 1k sons. Obviously the book will be bias towards the 1k son's perspective, but I just wanted to touch upon the 1k son's side of the issue. I believe the Wolf King is a tactical man, even in his appearance. His belligerence belies his brains, which in the case of Ahriman is portrayed perfectly. at the point where the fued went to killing, in Russ's eyes, they were no longer brothers. Many "primitive" (i mean no offense and mean this to only use popularly held views and beliefs) societies had the value of a person based on their word, and breaking their verbal agreement meant this person cast aside all bonds of brotherhood. this society is where Russ (imo) comes from, and where, despite his education in the larger scale of the imperium, his roots lay. Had Russ been ordered to take down any of the traitor primarchs, i believe he would have fought them with equal gusto and ruthlessness. If lograr's summoned daemoinc allies have been viewed by Russ, he would have done everything in his power to destroy his honorless brethren. if the khornate allies of the world eaters or the daemonettes of the emperor's children been viewed by russ, then again nothing would stay his hand. his world is based upon the oaths of loyalty of his brethren being sacred, and when one of his brothers break their oath to the emperor, as magnus had, then all matters of joy must be turned aside till honor is satisified. from our modern perspective, this may seem to be crazy and primitive, but are we in any place to judge? look at the systems of justice and honor held by the "primitive societies", and then take a look into our modern justice systems... can you tell me without a doubt, that we are any better? atleast his route was more honest. remember, when judging history (even fictional history), to learn WHY something happened, not just what happened. to learn of the event and miss the reason why is to learn nothing, and ultimately doom yourself to repeat it. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2434059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Good point and I don't have much to argue against that because I think it's right. In the grand scheme of things Magnus is at fault for disobeying his father and dabbling with powers he was ignorant of, which is the tragedy of the matter because he had good intentions all along. Look where that got him... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2434080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Good point and I don't have much to argue against that because I think it's right. In the grand scheme of things Magnus is at fault for disobeying his father and dabbling with powers he was ignorant of, which is the tragedy of the matter because he had good intentions all along. Look where that got him... Almost all Marines end up falling,because they had the best of intentions the whole time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2434181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Good point and I don't have much to argue against that because I think it's right. In the grand scheme of things Magnus is at fault for disobeying his father and dabbling with powers he was ignorant of, which is the tragedy of the matter because he had good intentions all along. Look where that got him... Almost all Marines end up falling,because they had the best of intentions the whole time. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" © Saint Bernard of Clairvaux. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2434187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Good point and I don't have much to argue against that because I think it's right. In the grand scheme of things Magnus is at fault for disobeying his father and dabbling with powers he was ignorant of, which is the tragedy of the matter because he had good intentions all along. Look where that got him... Almost all Marines end up falling,because they had the best of intentions the whole time. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" © Saint Bernard of Clairvaux. Very true....It is rare indeed that you find someone that damns themselves with open eyes and knowledge of what they are doing before hand. Then again...usually when you do they tend to be the most vile and nasty buggers ever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2434189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 The Emperor sent his own Adeptus Custodes and null maidens with Russ, If the destruction of Prospero was not the intent of the Emperor, the body guard would have told Russ to back down and not used there ships to help. I see nothing wrong here as i doubt the Custodes would take orders from Horrus. But i'm sure we'll find out in prospero burns, and lets hope we dont get the dumb and ignorant stamp :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204045-leman-russ/#findComment-2434222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.