PH34RB0T Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I'm pretty new to 40k, just having a 500 pt BT force, so I haven't really gotten into the books much, but the either day I picked up the Ravenor Omnibus, and it's just blowing. me. away. It has seriously convinced me that I want to start an Inquisition army, but which one would be better? Daemonhunters or Witchhunters? Or should I just tell myself no until the shiny new stuff comes out? And will there ever be a Xenoshunters codex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhallenFoenix Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I play both WH and DH, so I'll take a stab at the issue. The easy one first. No, most likely there will not be a Ordo Xenos codex. At best, if its a combined =I= codex, we may see Deathwatch kill teams, but that will be it. In terms of starting one of the armies, it depends on what you want. From a competitive standpoint... I don't think anyone would contest that WH is the more competitive of the armies. Its also one of the most expensive armies you can field, with full metal miniatures, multiple rhino-chassis vehicles, and exorcist tanks. DH is my personal favorite army, but from a competitive standpoint, and I can't seriously recommend it to anyone right now. While a somewhat expensive army due to, again, all metal range, its cost is heavily mitigated by the relatively few models it fields. From a fluff standpoint... It seems your getting interested in the army by reading the books, so in that case, I'd pick the army that you enjoy the look/fluff of the most. In that regard, I can only tell you that both armies look great painted, and that Gray Knights especially have some beautiful models. Also, I'm biased but gray knights... come on. An entire CHAPTER of psychic genetically engineered super soldiers with the emperor himself as their primarch? bad*ss. Finally, all this is assuming you can even find the models to build one of the armies. GW has pulled most of them from websites and stores (hopefully and presumable in preparation for a new codex/range of models.) My own personal opinion? I think SMART money is on waiting for new models. They will likely be more competitive, cheaper, and... while they may or may not be BETTER looking, will almost certainly be more dynamic, with more poses possible that the current range allows. That said, if you can find the miniatures to build one of the armies, and you just want to go for it and teach xenos, heretic, and warp spawn alike who ya gunna call, I will be the first person in line to wish you the best. Hope that helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 It depends on which armies' fluff you like most. Daemonhunters use the aid of the most powerful chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, the Grey Knights, to vanquish the daemonic foes wherever they may appear. Witchhunters on the other hand, fight alongside the Bolter babes to cleanse the unsanctioned psykers and mutants through holy flame. In terms of playability, it is much easier to use a WH force than DH, as they can get an unbelievable amount of anti-tank weapons (in comparison to the DH, that is, who basically have Inquisitorial Stormtrooper special weapons, Dreadnoughts or Land Raiders) WH are still rather playable, they aren't as competitive as the newer armies to be redone, but with skill and experience you can master their tactics and emerge victorious. The main problem with DH, most particularly the Grey Knights, is that their codex is so old (3rd edition, 7 years we've been neglected) that the GK's stat lines don't reflect their elite status, and their points cost is too high for what they are (in comparison the the newer codex releases). You could just as easily go with an army you like the look of, i'm in the process of painting the individual heraldry on my Grey Knight Terminators ;) It could be worth the wait for new books and models to be released, as there are a lot of rumors about Grey Knights getting the next codex before christmas (plus the possibility of plastic models means you won't spend a ridiculous amount of money to get started) Hope this helps, and welcome to B&C Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 An entire CHAPTER of psychic genetically engineered super soldiers with the emperor himself as their primarch? bad*ss. Anothe theory is that the Grey Knights were formed out of loyalists from within the Traitor legions, who escaped the virus-bombing of Istvaan III and told the Emperor of Horus and friends' betrayal. Although this is only relevant to the topic via the fluff (come on, i'm biased towards the Grey Knights, too) ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorDaley Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I would ask, what army do you play now? If allies are possible, perhaps just ally in an Inquisitor with retinue. I would not steer anyone away from an army they want to build, but the DH are really not competitive right now. That being said, they are my favorite army to play with just because of the inherent challenge I face from the second I place them on the board. On a positive note for you, if you wait a little bit, both dexs will be free PDFs on the GW site. Good luck with whatever choice you do decide on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhallenFoenix Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 An entire CHAPTER of psychic genetically engineered super soldiers with the emperor himself as their primarch? bad*ss. Anothe theory is that the Grey Knights were formed out of loyalists from within the Traitor legions, who escaped the virus-bombing of Istvaan III and told the Emperor of Horus and friends' betrayal. Although this is only relevant to the topic via the fluff (come on, i'm biased towards the Grey Knights, too) :) Also possible, but it would beg the question where the Gray Knights got sufficient amounts of geneseed from. No way enough marines escaped to contribute enough to jump start a chapter, and getting some from the tithes of other chapters (the way normal chapters are formed) would go against the goal of keeping the gray knights completely secret. An interesting quandary. Also, what Daley says is completely true. Whatever you do, don't buy the codex. It'll be free in a month, tops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Scout Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 An entire CHAPTER of psychic genetically engineered super soldiers with the emperor himself as their primarch? bad*ss. Anothe theory is that the Grey Knights were formed out of loyalists from within the Traitor legions, who escaped the virus-bombing of Istvaan III and told the Emperor of Horus and friends' betrayal. Although this is only relevant to the topic via the fluff (come on, i'm biased towards the Grey Knights, too) :) Also possible, but it would beg the question where the Gray Knights got sufficient amounts of geneseed from. No way enough marines escaped to contribute enough to jump start a chapter, and getting some from the tithes of other chapters (the way normal chapters are formed) would go against the goal of keeping the gray knights completely secret. An interesting quandary. Also, what Daley says is completely true. Whatever you do, don't buy the codex. It'll be free in a month, tops. The golden throne is a milking machine :P Wait for the new GK minis and book or wait till they are about to release and pick up cheap armies on fleebay. In my opinion the GK models are the best looking models for 40k....Brother Captain Stern is awesome!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhallenFoenix Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 All of the models in terminator armor are awesome!!! In the interest of justice, I fixed it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 All of the models in terminator armor are awesome!!! In the interest of justice, I fixed it. which is why I feel guilty about my not so brilliant painting skills. Though on Topic, if you like the Grey knights, then go for it with models that 7 years on are still the best Games workshop do, great fluff, and yes they are a challenge to play, that is part of joy of playing Grey knights, to know the reason for your wins is not the fan drivel of a codex writer(cough storm ravan cough) but your own skill, the look on peoples faces when you win, the sheer badassery of the grey knights (imagine them in combat, Nemesis force weapons spinning, using stormbolters as lesser marines use pistols, unleashing their pure psychic powers to smite their foes) what is their not to love about Grey knights? However, the sisters are kinda scary to face, the exorsists, beleive me after facing those organs of doom, you will think twice about taking anything, just that anything, tanks, terminators, marines, Eldar, guard, tau, tyranids, not much can survive a barrage from the Imperial Oprea house Orchestra, the amount of flamers and melta they have turns a Salamander green with envy (no, he will actually turn green from envy, not just his armour) and the living saint(cannot keep a good sister down). So, any questions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Due to the imense costs involved I would wait until the new shiny stuff comes out (hopefully early 2011 however one weird guy on warseer thinks december, I don't). I echo the other posters but soon (not yet as far as I can discern) the codecies will be up on the GW website for free. If you look through both a lot and you can then decide which you like the most but then you must also look at the models. DH models: Use Kaskirin as IST and I love them and it works out slightly cheaper. Grey Knights are very nice though don't see much use but the terminators are argueably the greatest models ever produced by citadel minatures and the most useful models in the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obliterator Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Things you may want to consider: Do you want one army, or a variation of units to pich from? While Daemonhunters looks stunning on the tabletop, the range of units to pick from can be a bit limiting. With Witchhunters, you can field a lot more different units, with lots of different tactics etc. eBay or sites like that are often a source where you can find cheap Inquisition models. Lots of people are drawn into playing an Inquisition army as it offers about the most beautiful models in GW's range, but seeing the ancient codices with aged rules and points cost, and then comparing them to the newer shiny stuff makes a lot of unhappy Inquisitors. Do you want to play pure Inquisition, or do you want a Marine or Guard army with Inquisition elements? Fluff-wise and game-wise there are tons of viable options for you to dab into. Do you want extensive conversions, or don't you mind a 'clone' army (7 different Sister models, 4-5 different PAGK models)? If you want the conversions, all metal minis, often cast in one piece will make your work a lot harder. True, all metal armies can be a bit more expensive (I've even added the ForgeWorld tanks to mine to really drive the point home :rolleyes: ), but there's something about the weight of a metal mini in your hands. Makes it feel more... real. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Considering your Black Templars army, you could always use Grey Knights as allies (Grey Knights are the only Psykers that a BT army will fight alongside), which could help boost your points. If you want a pure Daemonhunters list (or pure GKs, for that matter), you will definitely want Land Raiders. LOTS of Land Raiders. I have 2 Godhammers, 2 Crusaders and one GK Redeemer for mine, but that's just me. DHs don't get any reliable anti-tank other than the AV14 behemoths and Dreads (Which i find are far too fragile. I rarely use my custom GK Dread, so i guess that makes me a bit of a fluff-player then :) ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 If I am remembering my rules correctly, a Black Templar army will not ally in something with Psychic powers unless it is a Grey Knight, ergo they can ally an Inquisitor who does not take any psychic powers as the letter of the rule states :) Sooo.. you can have an Inquisitor and warband in a Templars army, just no psychic goodness for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judanas Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Heck, by the letter of the rule you could bring along mystics or penitents for your inquisitor, as they are not psykers...strangely... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 DH are my first and still my favorite army. But I can't in good conscience recommend to anybody new to start either of the Inquisition armies. The books are old and suffer from "monobuild", where there is basically just one way to play them competitively. They are also expensive armies to collect. WH especially as there is no plastic anywhere (except for Rhino-chassis vehicles) yet you still will require a rather decent sized model count to field the army. And finally, much of the product for both armies has been stripped from game store shelves, and in the case of the WH in particular, some of the models aren't even available for order online! The rumors for a reboot of the DH -- as Codex: Grey Knights -- are fairly well established and reasonably credible. Taking all of the above into account, I really do think it'd be smartest to just wait for a bit and see what comes out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH34RB0T Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 So, I plan on waiting now. But I won't promise that I won't Ebay a squad just to Ally with my BT. They look pretty great... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse47 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 My LGS still has GK and Sisters in stock. PM me if you need the store info. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2433933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zode Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I got back into 40K recently (been away since just before 3rd edition) and decided to go with DH, and I don't regret it one bit. I play a Puritan Inquisitor with ISTs and GKs, which has so far been quite competitive against my friends. Between Ebay and my local shop I've managed to cobble 1500 pts together, but I think I'm going to wait until they release new to buy any more GK. All the more reason I'm dying for them to release the new stuff :D I have to agree with the others and tell you to go with what interests you most and start saving so once they come out you can get yourself an army :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204056-soooo-am-i-dumb-or-what/#findComment-2434091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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