Hear da Lamentation Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I've read some great Eldar tactic threads here, but from some recent games I'd be interested to hear tactics for objective games with lots of eldar skimming tanks. My friend brings on his army as late as possible in these sort of games (using the reserve power) sits back waiting for the end of the game - then turbos forward at the last minute to contest any objectives being held and tank shocking anything in the way. As 2/3 of games are objective based, this is a good tactic. 1st game I played with him, I held 3/4 objectives from turn 2 - but he successfully managed to contest all 3 and keep his just on the end of round 6. Some bad rolling didn't help from me - but still a nice move, which I saw coming, but seemed powerless to stop. Any thoughts fellow wolves? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Ignore the objectives and focus on wiping out units (skimmer vehicles make particularly valuable targets to LFs and krak missiles) until turn 3 or 4 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Betrayed_Spacewolf Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 go second. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Remember, he cant NOT roll for reserves, its something that must be done every turn, and if they come in, they come in. The likelyhood of him being able to keep everything in reserve until the end of the game is monumentally against him. But,if all else fails, start brining WGPLs with chainfists to the game, and death or glory anything that tries to tank shock you- remember, in CC waveserpent force fields are useless. Drop Pod them in, let him come to you, hell have to tank shock you to get close enough to contest, and then ram a chainfist through his cockpit in true pit-fighter style. Bring some Typhoons in to chase down vypers and other annoyances, and some scouts to counter any heavy weapon teams or targets of oppurtunity... and you should be set. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MylesTheTroll Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 With Eldar being my main and only army until I picked up Space Wolves a last week, I have some ideas. Eldar prefer going 2nd overall to do that exact tactic you said your opponent does. Which means you need to put the hurt on what he has out since most of his army will be in reserve. Most Eldar players will have vehicles in play just like your friend does for the simple fact that if they don't whatever inside them has a 1 turn life expectancy. In which case, Fire Dragons, as awesome and powerful as they are, are usually used as suicide units whether planned or not. Best course of action really would be Long Fangs with missile launchers since anything else is useless vs the Wave Serpents. 140pts unit taking out possibly two 100pt-130pt units in the same turn. That's awesome. They will also destroy infantry out in the opponent with their krak missiles. Crazy, I know. Wolf Scouts w/ melta bombs with a Wolf Guard w/ combi-plasma or powerfist sneaking in behind Fire Prisms is another fine tactic. And if he is using Dark Reapers, just as good. Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ a hammer can be downright brutish for when you discover the Wave Serpent w/ the Farseer in it. If he is taking a Jetbike Seer council, then wait for them to get in range, and attack. Can also use Fenrisian Wolves to tie them up for a few turns. That Seer Council isn't cheap. Might want to bring Ragnar to that battle w/ a Wolf Priest. I've never had to fight Eldar, but I can only imagine how useless Rune Priests would be vs the Runes of Warding. (No LOS, unlimited range Opponent rolls 3 dice for all psychic tests and counts all of them. If they total 12 or higher, Perils. And with the increased odds off rolling above your leadership...it's a scary decision to make whether or not to bring a Rune Priest. Glad, I'm the only Eldar in my group. Just some helpful ideas vs Eldar in general, and for objective based games. Good luck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I've never had to fight Eldar, but I can only imagine how useless Rune Priests would be vs the Runes of Warding. (No LOS, unlimited range Opponent rolls 3 dice for all psychic tests and counts all of them. If they total 12 or higher, Perils. And with the increased odds off rolling above your leadership...it's a scary decision to make whether or not to bring a Rune Priest. Glad, I'm the only Eldar in my group. Rune Priests are valuable for their defense against Eldar not their offense. Shutting down half of the eldar arsenal is nice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MylesTheTroll Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I've never had to fight Eldar, but I can only imagine how useless Rune Priests would be vs the Runes of Warding. (No LOS, unlimited range Opponent rolls 3 dice for all psychic tests and counts all of them. If they total 12 or higher, Perils. And with the increased odds off rolling above your leadership...it's a scary decision to make whether or not to bring a Rune Priest. Glad, I'm the only Eldar in my group. Rune Priests are valuable for their defense against Eldar not their offense. Shutting down half of the eldar arsenal is nice Good point. Wouldn't ever have thought without going up against the Eldar myself which more than likely won't ever happen anytime soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Remember, he cant NOT roll for reserves, its something that must be done every turn, and if they come in, they come in. yeah eldar players often try to "forget this" :P Drop Pod them in, let him come to you, hell have to tank shock you to get close enough to contest, and then ram a chainfist through his cockpit in true pit-fighter style. could you explain this tactic? i dont get why drop podding in would help, when you are coming in reserve (potentially before him) I've never had to fight Eldar, but I can only imagine how useless Rune Priests would be vs the Runes of Warding. (No LOS, unlimited range Opponent rolls 3 dice for all psychic tests and counts all of them. If they total 12 or higher, Perils. And with the increased odds off rolling above your leadership...it's a scary decision to make whether or not to bring a Rune Priest. Glad, I'm the only Eldar in my group. Rune Priests are valuable for their defense against Eldar not their offense. Shutting down half of the eldar arsenal is nice eldar have great HQ's avatar, phoenix lords, autarchs, farseers and they are cheeeeeap eldar often do not take farseers, especially using the reserve tactic, as autarchs give +1 to your reserve rolls and if they do take them then rune priests negate them on 4+ also tempests wrath is great against eldar, it affects almost every unit in your oponents list Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 just a quick something, don't rely on meltabombs etc to down eldar vehicles. they are skimmersand as such you require a 6 to hit them in combat. if you do want to down them in combat go for a power fist or thunder hammer as you are getting more than one attack and so are more likely to hit. I would personlly go combi-melta though but hey. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Drop Pod them in, let him come to you, hell have to tank shock you to get close enough to contest, and then ram a chainfist through his cockpit in true pit-fighter style. could you explain this tactic? i dont get why drop podding in would help, when you are coming in reserve (potentially before him) I've never had to fight Eldar, but I can only imagine how useless Rune Priests would be vs the Runes of Warding. (No LOS, unlimited range Opponent rolls 3 dice for all psychic tests and counts all of them. If they total 12 or higher, Perils. And with the increased odds off rolling above your leadership...it's a scary decision to make whether or not to bring a Rune Priest. Glad, I'm the only Eldar in my group. Rune Priests are valuable for their defense against Eldar not their offense. Shutting down half of the eldar arsenal is nice eldar have great HQ's avatar, phoenix lords, autarchs, farseers and they are cheeeeeap eldar often do not take farseers, especially using the reserve tactic, as autarchs give +1 to your reserve rolls and if they do take them then rune priests negate them on 4+ Well, for the record- Eldar HQs CAN be cheap, they often are not however, as many players want to load up farseers with extra powers, and a phoenix lord costs as much as a decked out Wolf Lord. That being said, the previous tactic is thus: You take a squad, say- 8x GH- PG, WT, DP- 175pts. With a Pack Leader- TDA, CF, C-P- 53pts. You drop down onto the objective turn 1. And I mean directly on top of the objective if at all possible, and then you spread out around it- wich also helps against enemy template weapons- in order to keep anyone from going near it. When he tank shocks, death or glory at S8+2d6 armor penetration, and cut his waveserpent in half. That is if you havent shot his tanks down earlier with shooting, wich is highly possible- eldar tanks are deceptively tough. You hold the objective, and you make him work hard for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2433910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Betrayed_Spacewolf Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 actually they suck. avatar is scary, not really just use your long fangs and blast it away. Its a slow mc however just blast the screwball away. Besides the inclusion of the Avatar will generally mean your opponent is footdar. If not then concentrate on the vehicles for the first few turns then light up the avatar with missile fire. Farseer yay your great with powers but here come close to my rune priest please! If your facing biker council stop his powers or blast the hell out of him with ap 3 weaponry. Farseer is a high power support but if your rune priest is in position the farseer is left out in the proverbial cold Phoenix Lords: awesome only two of them are useful. Maugan Ra and the Fuegan. Bring out the lascannons, meltas, and plasma and watch them fall like pansies without an invulnerable save. Go ahead bring them and ill laugh tell the morning sun. I generally cant help you with the late coming guys however just be smart in placing objectives. put them close to your edge and blast him with long fangs until he dies. if he brings on mechdar just remember stun and shaken work just as well as immobilized or destroyed for that turn dont waste firepower on a vehicle thats already been stopped for that turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I dont know about that- Ive yet to find a Phoenix lord I didnt like... theyre all just rather expensive. Ive had some incredibly games led by Asurmen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Betrayed_Spacewolf Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 did you play against competitive people or fluff bunnies? fluff bunnies are ok its generally just going to be a fun game against them. however for competitive games generally the above is true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 did you play against competitive people or fluff bunnies? fluff bunnies are ok its generally just going to be a fun game against them. however for competitive games generally the above is true. Competitive folk. Asurmen for instance is a good buy if you expect to be fighting space wolves- hes got a 2+/4++ and can insta-kill enemies without using a psychic power, drops enemies attacks, increases his own squads shooting, and makes them fearless. Sure, its about 500pts in a waveserpent, but itll take down its points in SW TDA between shots and assault, and murder most things smaller than it. A good matchup for enemy TH+SS TDA for sure. Kharandas shines against the new nid codex and isnt bad versus marines. Jain Zar is also very nice in a mounted list- Furious Charge means that Banshees are very effective against marines for a change. One thing you need to remember is that while theyre expensive their inclusion in the list means you can fully drop the exarch powers for atleast one of your squads, wich will save you around 30-40pts. You have to build the list with including them in mind- unlike farseers you cant simply tack them on afterwords and hope itll work otu alright. That being said its one of the few ways that an Eldar player can take an HQ thats mobile enough to be where it needs to and killy/tough enough to take on Marine HQs in CC, or ork warbosses for that matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Betrayed_Spacewolf Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 while i disagree on their usefulness Phoenix lords just dont do it for a decent army. phoenix lords part 1 phoenix lords part 2 generally they can be nice but im gonna kill you before you have a chance to do anything. will the lord kill a squad? yes however im also gonna have the tools required to kill you asap or ill just dread you to death with bjorn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 while i disagree on their usefulness Phoenix lords just dont do it for a decent army. phoenix lords part 1 phoenix lords part 2 generally they can be nice but im gonna kill you before you have a chance to do anything. will the lord kill a squad? yes however im also gonna have the tools required to kill you asap or ill just dread you to death with bjorn. I cant read that site, I dont agree with 3/4 of his articles. Im sure other people find him useful, but for the most part I find him to be a poor pundit, and his ideas lead to success only in a particular metagame. Im afraid were just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, unless you ever happen to be in montana- if so send me a PM and we can settle this face to face, over a board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 phoenix lords are great they have eternal warrior the autarchs and farseers are great in CC if you dont survive to retaliate and as soon as they lose a wouind from PF or TH they die from instant death thats why phoenix lords are so surviveable they also confer some ausome rules to the squad they join e.g. furios charge for banshees the avatar is dificult to kill, T6 and a tough inv. save and 4 wounds. Your more than likely going to have spend rounds of shooting on him with a long fang squad to kill him farseers have insane psychic powers, edrad can use 3 per turn!!! imagine being mind war'ed twice and then have doom on you for the following assault phase YOUR DEAD autarchs can take every wargear under the sun! be it jump infantry, jetbiker, flying etc. and Yriels blast marker attack is insane! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Wich is why you kill avatars with small arms fire, not heavy weapons- he only has a 3+ save after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 If you have transports for your packs, he wont be able to tank shock them, or his attack lines will be awkward. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 If you have transports for your packs, he wont be able to tank shock them, or his attack lines will be awkward. The point is you want him to try tank shocking,so you can rip it apart with the autohit attack. Though...funniest thing in the world I ever saw...back when I was still having to use a Daemon Hunter Inquisitor Lord to fill out my points,He had a Psycannon and an Auspex. The Eldar player infiltrated the scorpion Lord thingy in and he deployed close enough to let my guy take the free shot. Since Scorps only have a invulnerable save,and the psycannon ignores invulnerable saves..during his deployment,3 S6 attacks,and at the start of my turn,another 3 s6 attacks. Needless to say he was very very upset when his Striking Scorpion squad was reduced to just the lord. Said lord then got ambushed by a squad of Grey Hunters and wiped out,though he took out all but the PW,MotW,and Both Meltagunners. The real problem came from the fact that he had played me three days after an epic asskicking from an eldar player( my first game against eldar),so I was built to kick eldar ass this time around. I still haven't faced the Avatar...but as long as it doesn't ignore Lascannons and Missile launchers..I ain't worried. Few things in this game can't be dealt with by the proper application of enough explosives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeons Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 the versatility of autarchs is amazing. i'd love to try a pair with just reaper launchers to support a 3x reaper list. not to mention the awesomely cheap scorpion chainsword+avenger shruiken catapult to support a dire avenger gunline...and you can throw a banshee mask on him for just a few points more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Can you tank shock a fearless unit off an objective? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Well the squad would just move out of harms way ever so slightly. Depends on how you line up the tank shock I suppose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 If you have transports for your packs, he wont be able to tank shock them, or his attack lines will be awkward. The point is you want him to try tank shocking,so you can rip it apart with the autohit attack. Though...funniest thing in the world I ever saw...back when I was still having to use a Daemon Hunter Inquisitor Lord to fill out my points,He had a Psycannon and an Auspex. The Eldar player infiltrated the scorpion Lord thingy in and he deployed close enough to let my guy take the free shot. Since Scorps only have a invulnerable save,and the psycannon ignores invulnerable saves..during his deployment,3 S6 attacks,and at the start of my turn,another 3 s6 attacks. Needless to say he was very very upset when his Striking Scorpion squad was reduced to just the lord. Said lord then got ambushed by a squad of Grey Hunters and wiped out,though he took out all but the PW,MotW,and Both Meltagunners. Must be in 2nd edition that Striking scorpions had an Invulnerable save as the had a 3+ armour save since 3rd. Unless you are reffering to cover saves as such you have been cheating without knowing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
warp spider Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Remember, he cant NOT roll for reserves, its something that must be done every turn, and if they come in, they come in. yeah eldar players often try to "forget this" :) Thats not entirely true. You do have to roll for reserves, but accordind to the Eldar FAQ: The player may chose +1, +2 or no bonus to hid reserve rolls So they have to roll, but the bonus is up to them. This can be used tacticaly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204100-eldar-and-objectives/#findComment-2434642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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