Dealing with Space Wolves

[wolf363839]

I'm actually a Space Wolf player, but I have a buddy who plays BA and is getting very frustrated with losing to my mechanized wolf force.

 

So how do you guys deal with a mechanized Space Wolf force? Army composition, tactics, etc would really help. Thanks.

[OverchargeThis!]

Welcome, Brother.

 

What's his army list look like?

[Leonaides]

Personally? Out manouvre, out-gun and or just plain old target identification. Achieve superiority of firepower, or of manouvre, to allow myself to dictate the course of the game, deciding who fights where and when to allow those fights. Dont pick a fight if the odds are not in my favour, always plan for CC to go less than average results (against me), and have a back-up plan. That being said, when a Wolf-Lord passes 9 4+ invulnerable saves against a load of S8+ weaponry its really annoying (still killed him eventually though).

[TrentL]

Thats really too broad, why don't you list your army and what your friend has available.

 

One thing my wife and I do is, we sometimes switch armies, so I build my Bloodangels she builds her orks but then we switch.

 

Then we get a better feel for the opposing army, and we also make comments on things, about maybe 1 mini just doesn't work with the army build etc.

[SamaNagol]

You won't grind them out if you go one against one, so you need to use your faster speed and punch on the charge to overload a weak point in his defences. If you can ignore Thunderwolves unless you have Vindicators, that will be a good idea. Use cheap vehicles to block their progress, seeing as they all use 60mm Dreadnought bases.

 

If I am playing a mech Wolf list, I will send my Razorbacks and Attack bikes off hunting in pairs to pop Rhinos full of Grey Hunters and try and get a unit in combat with Long Fangs asap.

[wolf363839]

Space Wolf List:

 

Thunderwolf Lord w/ all the trimmings

2 x Thunderwolf cavalry w/ stormshields and a thunderhammer

 

10 fully equipped Grey Hunters in Redeemer

Wolf Guard w/ power fist and combi-melta

 

Rune Priest & 8 fully equipped Grey Hunters in Rhino

Wolf Guard w/ power fist and combi-melta

 

9 fully equipped Grey Hunters in Rhino

Wolf Guard w/ power fist and combi-melta

 

5 Grey Hunters in Razorback w/ TwinL Las

Wolf Guard w/ power fist and combi-melta

 

2 x Vindicators

 

 

He has played orks for a long time, so he knows my army pretty well. His BA army is kind of in flux, but here's what he fielded today:

 

Epistolary Librarian w/ TDA and SS

5 x Assault Termis

Redeemer

 

2 full Assault Squads w/ JPs, meltaguns, infernus pistols, power fists

Sanguinary Priest w/ JP and power weapon

 

Vindicator

 

Baal Pred w/ flaming everything

 

5 x Devastators w/ 2 ML, 2 PC

 

Dreadnought

[Priest33]

Need more details, are you using a plasma spam list? General units at his/her disposal, is he/she a new player, do you play with special characters, has he/she realised this is ba's toughest foe and is more then likely to lose more games then win?

 

 

-edit- sweet lists! hazzar! Alrighty, let him know that against SW you want to take out as many foes on the charge as you can in order to survive the counter attack. PW's will serve him better then PF's in this reguard as you want to take less damage back. Equipt stuff with meltabombs if your that worried about transports or take dual melta's. Inferno pistols are sort of a waste of time as you have to be within 3 inches to get the double pen hits on vehicals, save the points for something else... Wheres the blender dred?! (furioso's) Considering they can rage and have furious charge if near a priest, base ws of 6 and str 6 ignoring ac hits that can keep going for ever they are his best chance at cutting your units down. Id also advise taking a chaplin of some sort as you want your boys to be hitting hard on that charge.

 

Oh and I dislike BBQbaals ass can and hbolter are far better.

[wolf363839]

I heartily agree. SW are probably the best/only force that can compete in CC w/ BA on a one for one basis (GHs vs Assault Squads) because they are more durable than Eldar, and hit harder than regular CSM for the same points. To me it is a chess match: whomever gets the charge will win the battle. Yes, SW have counterattack, but if I let a BA squad w/ a sanguinary priest / red thirst get the charge, then I'm toast. I also agree that infernus pistols are a waste of points since you could just as easily have 2 meltaguns in the squad.

 

I've been playing SW forever, so I've got my all comers list down pat. But I always build my armies around my troops because they form the core of a SW army's power. And now that you need scoring units in 2/3 of games, they become even more important. I think a BA army should be built the same way, around its assault squads.

 

I love the idea of Furiosos with Blood Talons, but they will become just as big a fire-magnet as a vindicator. Maybe a librarian one w/ wings? I would consider that one of the biggest threats and target it with everything I had until it was neutralized (immobilized or killed). I'm not sure that a squad of terminators in a Redeemer couldn't do more damage, and would be a little more durable, even though more expensive.

 

How many "toys" do you BA gurus take? and what type?

[Priest33]

"toys" im guessing you mean specialised units, i take 2 furioso's and 2 baal preds in most games and either a honor guard or a vanguard squad. I very rarely take special characters as I dont really see the point of most of them in our codex (omg i know mephy is awesome, hes also a trap.) as they are over priced bullet magnets.

 

I play a fast battle with lots of assault squads and drop pods (3 so i can get 2 in the first turn) and tend to avoid things that are "uber" or costly. (sang guard and assault termies in general are to costly for me to really take.. even if my vanguard set up can be as costly haha)

[Whitefireinferno]

What toys does this Tearer of Flesh take?.....I take the Rage of our chapter embodied into the Astares Led By Seth For we will walk into hell and such ...Oh and I tend to Spam Asscans Oh and my great Black armoured Brothers their wrath has become Legendary in the past few games.

[SamaNagol]

Try not to post in character young Bluffkin, this isn't L.A.I.R.E.

[Corby]

InB4.....

 

 

 

"Hur hur hur Just use Mephiston"

[Droofus]

-edit- sweet lists! hazzar! Alrighty, let him know that against SW you want to take out as many foes on the charge as you can in order to survive the counter attack. PW's will serve him better then PF's in this reguard as you want to take less damage back.

 

Against the troops, you're quite right. But keep in mind that Space Wolves also put more multi-wound ICs on the table than anyone else. Power fists are an extra-special way of killing those ICs.

[angel of justice]

While the Land raider redeemer, plus librarian plus terminator assault squad is awesome and in the right situation can be devastating it is also a very big point sink for a small amount of wounds and can be mitigated by combat squading and feeding it units,while having a premium cost of about 635 points a better suggestion would be to invest the points in.

 

2 tactical squad both with, plasma gun and plasma cannon and sergeant with power weapon equals 400 points

2 Sanguinary priests with power weapons cost 130 points

Librarian un upgraded costs 100 points.

 

24 wounds, 3+ save / 4 plus feel no pain. Pretty good anti armor capability (cant take av 14) everyone has furious charge plus 4 power weapons and a force weapon and powers.

Gives you 5 points extra

 

it puts out in ranged combat

16 bolter shots (32 rapid-fire range) 2 plasma cannon blast templates, 2 plasma gun shots (4 rapid fire range) 4 bolt pistol shots, ranged psychic power (blood lance, smite, blood boil etc)

 

in assault

Not on the charge (imitative 4) 18 strength 4 attacks, 12 strength 4 power weapon attacks 3 force weapon attacks strength 4

On the charge (initiative 5) 32 strength 5 attacks 16 strength 5 power weapon attacks 4 force weapon attacks strength 5

(can sweeping advance)

 

In direct comparison

 

Lightning claw terminator land raider librarian combo.

20 lightning claw attacks and 4 force weapon attacks on the charge

15 lightning claw attacks 3 force weapon attacks

(cant sweeping advance)

 

2 flame-storm templates 4 assault cannon shots and librarian power

 

Granted the tactical squad is not as sexy as the assault terminator land raider combo but it makes a very good anvil and presents a threat that is capable of capturing objectives and being very hard to shift and resistant to one or 2 lucky melta shots that would otherwise cripple the landraider. If tactical squads are not to your liking Assault squads, Death Company and scout squads all do very well.

 

Also some tips

 

Drop the flamers and move to assault cannon, heavy bolter sponsoons with the Baal predator this is because you have to get within melta range to use it effectively while the heavy bolters and assault cannons can pop rhino's and razorbacks at range in safety.

 

Drop the devastator squad and pick up 2 land speeders with multi melta's for about the same price or a predator or vindicator this is because unless the devestators are a 10 man band you take casualties and you start loosing heavy weapons that you paid a premium for. (vindicator or Auto cannon / lascannon predators are the better option for taking down armor and MEQ)

 

Give the dreadnought blood talons, you wont regret it.

 

-wow big post

[lorider2]

You won't grind them out if you go one against one, so you need to use your faster speed and punch on the charge to overload a weak point in his defences. If you can ignore Thunderwolves unless you have Vindicators, that will be a good idea. Use cheap vehicles to block their progress, seeing as they all use 60mm Dreadnought bases.

 

If I am playing a mech Wolf list, I will send my Razorbacks and Attack bikes off hunting in pairs to pop Rhinos full of Grey Hunters and try and get a unit in combat with Long Fangs asap.

 

Great advice. However this list (posted later, below) has no long fangs and is clearly lacking something -

 

 

Space Wolf List:

 

Thunderwolf Lord w/ all the trimmings

2 x Thunderwolf cavalry w/ stormshields and a thunderhammer

 

10 fully equipped Grey Hunters in Redeemer

Wolf Guard w/ power fist and combi-melta

 

Rune Priest & 8 fully equipped Grey Hunters in Rhino

Wolf Guard w/ power fist and combi-melta

 

9 fully equipped Grey Hunters in Rhino

Wolf Guard w/ power fist and combi-melta

 

5 Grey Hunters in Razorback w/ TwinL Las

Wolf Guard w/ power fist and combi-melta

 

2 x Vindicators

 

and that is long range firepower. There is one 48 inch weapon in this list. Thus I would highly recommend a decent concentration of your favorite long range firepower. Naturally it would be wise to mech up (besides for perhaps one suicide unit) and as mentioned, once a weakness opens up, attack it, or just proceed down the line.

[Lynnean]

InB4.....

 

 

 

"Hur hur hur Just use Mephiston"

just use Mephiston xD

 

on a more serious note, get the charge and you can ruin them pretty much.

Dread with Blood Talons also seem to do good, with the ability to kill a Troops choice per turn :devil:

further, Toasters. AP3 flame templates? yes please B)