Eldar/Tau Skimmer Question

[rodgambit]

I have a few questions with skimmers and how they work in this edition.

 

1) If the enemy unit is behind their skimmer (rear hatch disembark) do they receive or grant a cover save in the shooting phase or would you be shooting under the skimmer and not grant a save?

 

2) If you try to assault the unit must you go around the skimmer or can you just assault under it? When trying to move your unit to assault them, do you have to stay an inch away from the model or the base of the model?

 

Thanks

[Corby]

1) No it doesnt grant a cover save.

 

2) No you can't assault under it and yes you have to stay an inch away from the skimmer if you want to assault the squad behind it.

[Schertenleib]

You can't shoot under the skimmer and neither can they.

[Corby]

You can shoot under a skimmer? True line of sight and all that Jazz? And besides its up in the air? Would make alot of sense that you can shoot from under it.

[Schertenleib]

As I understand the rules skimmers land after moving. Nothing in 40K truely flies.

[wiplash]

from what i understand contrary to the above:

 

you can shoot under a skimmer

if you are shot at from under a skimmer then you get a cover save

 

this is part of an eldar tactic unless i have been lied too

[Sutr]

you can shoot under a skimmer and you grant/are granted a cover save.

you need to go arround the skimmer to charge and you need to stay 1" away from it at all times.

 

as far as Tau goes this tactic is named fish of fury but there aren't that many players doing it couse it's too risky to put those firewarriors out of the transport.

[Grey Mage]

1) If you can see it, you can shoot it. The skimmer doesnt change this- if part of the skimmer blocks part of atleast half the models in the unit your shooting at they receive a 4+ cover save as per normal.

 

2) No, you cannot assault under the skimmer. Nor can you walk under the skimmer. Neither can your opponent, despite it being his skimmer. Yall need to go around.

[Silverwolf]

^ What he said ^_^.

 

Both Tau and Eldar use a similar tactic, where they dump out the back of their transport within 12" of your troops, to then rapid fire you while avoiding being assaulted afterwards. Only cavalry units or jump units have the movement range to be able to get around the vehicle to assault these units in the next turn.

 

What is generally done, is the enemy player lands with the nose of his skimmer basically touching your troops, then dumps his troops out the back and rapid fires yours. Assuming the transport survives your next turn (And both Tau Devilfish and Eldar Waveserpents have ridiculous survivability), he then loads said troops back into the transport and withdraws to safety.

 

Mech Eldar is one of the nastiest enemies for us to face. They're one of the few forces that can stay out of close combat with us almost indefinately. Mech Tau is not quite as bad as their units are not true fast-skimmers, and they don't get star engines :) (Transports that can move 36" in a turn is just plain nasty - Upgraded Eldar Waveserpents).

 

My take on this tactic is that all Grey Hunter squads should always have at least one melta and/or Power Fist in the squad. When your opponent tries something like this, ignore the troops until the transport is dead / immobilised. Once this happens, his troops can no longer run away from you, and you will chew them apart. That being said, be careful of Eldar Dire Avengers. They do have some nifty little upgrades that mean they can cause you a bit of damage in close combat.

[sonofwaranddeath]

from what i understand contrary to the above:

 

you can shoot under a skimmer

if you are shot at from under a skimmer then you get a cover save

 

this is part of an eldar tactic unless i have been lied too

 

 

Same here. This has been used numerous times I have seen.

[Silverwolf]

As per 5th Ed. Codex, cover save is only granted when 50% of the model is obscured by terrain. And LOS is true LOS from the models head.

 

Those things considered, the only way for a unit to gain a cover save behind a Skimmer is if it's sitting low enough to the ground to obscure the top half of the model. If this is done, then the model in question will not have LOS to anything in front of the skimmer. Building up the base of the model as a nice "scenic" base to give the units behind cover by obscuring the bottom 50% of the model will not work. The bases provided for the model are a clear, low base which provides no cover. You cannot carry around your own special terrain with you. By all means make a scenic base for your flyer/skimmer. Just don't try to use it to give the troops dropping out of said vehicle cover.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

As per 5th Ed. Codex, cover save is only granted when 50% of the model is obscured by terrain. And LOS is true LOS from the models head.

 

Those things considered, the only way for a unit to gain a cover save behind a Skimmer is if it's sitting low enough to the ground to obscure the top half of the model. If this is done, then the model in question will not have LOS to anything in front of the skimmer. Building up the base of the model as a nice "scenic" base to give the units behind cover by obscuring the bottom 50% of the model will not work. The bases provided for the model are a clear, low base which provides no cover. You cannot carry around your own special terrain with you. By all means make a scenic base for your flyer/skimmer. Just don't try to use it to give the troops dropping out of said vehicle cover.

 

Unless I am misreading your post, that is NQR bro. 50% cover refers to vehicles requiring that to get cover.

 

Infantry gets cover if 1% of them is obscured. They can be targeted if 1% of them is visible.

 

I don't think fancy bases were mentioned, but you are right, though I don't think that was being argued for....

 

+++

 

GM is correct.

[TiguriusX]

As per 5th Ed. Codex, cover save is only granted when 50% of the model is obscured by terrain. And LOS is true LOS from the models head.

 

Those things considered, the only way for a unit to gain a cover save behind a Skimmer is if it's sitting low enough to the ground to obscure the top half of the model. If this is done, then the model in question will not have LOS to anything in front of the skimmer. Building up the base of the model as a nice "scenic" base to give the units behind cover by obscuring the bottom 50% of the model will not work. The bases provided for the model are a clear, low base which provides no cover. You cannot carry around your own special terrain with you. By all means make a scenic base for your flyer/skimmer. Just don't try to use it to give the troops dropping out of said vehicle cover.

 

 

The problem for SW is a 4+ cover save doesn't do much if they can't penetrate the normal 3+ in the first place.

The rapid fire is hoping for death by a thousand paper cuts while providing their squishy troops a cover save that is most likely better than the normal armor

[Silverwolf]

As per 5th Ed. Codex, cover save is only granted when 50% of the model is obscured by terrain. And LOS is true LOS from the models head.

 

Those things considered, the only way for a unit to gain a cover save behind a Skimmer is if it's sitting low enough to the ground to obscure the top half of the model. If this is done, then the model in question will not have LOS to anything in front of the skimmer. Building up the base of the model as a nice "scenic" base to give the units behind cover by obscuring the bottom 50% of the model will not work. The bases provided for the model are a clear, low base which provides no cover. You cannot carry around your own special terrain with you. By all means make a scenic base for your flyer/skimmer. Just don't try to use it to give the troops dropping out of said vehicle cover.

 

Unless I am misreading your post, that is NQR bro. 50% cover refers to vehicles requiring that to get cover.

 

Infantry gets cover if 1% of them is obscured. They can be targeted if 1% of them is visible.

 

I don't think fancy bases were mentioned, but you are right, though I don't think that was being argued for....

 

+++

 

GM is correct.

 

Haha, your quite right Wilhelm, I'm getting myself confused, been away from the fight for to long :P.

 

I know fancy bases were not being argued for, but I've seen it done in the past, so just clearing it up before anyone asks :).

 

And yes Tigur, obviously our armour save is going to be better then any cover save we're getting, the point is my comments about saves were in reference to the Eldar and Tau units, and for them it is of course better.