Am I Right?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

@ OP: Dude, tell your friends to let you try and one-shot Anngrath. The Grandmaster will probably die anyway, but it would be suitably epic (and thus very keeping with the spirit of Apocalypse, which is making lots of things die en-masse as well as kill big things) if he successfully banished him. Just tell them it's bad luck they pull out the Lord of Bloodthirsters when you bring Daemonhunters.

 

Some people make the argument that ours technically doesn't cause 'Instant Death' because the verbage isn't the same 2 editions later... I think this argument is a load of hooey, and removing all wounds causing the model to die instantly is the same as 'Instant Death', and play it as such.

 

You claim the argument is bogus, yet offer no facts or even a coherent counter-argument. Nice one :D

 

I'm going to present two arguments and a short whine;

 

Rules-lawyer: The nemesis force weapon chart (in the Armoury) tells us that the Grandmasters nemesis force weapon grants +2 Strength, is a power weapon and is a force weapon. If we look back a bit in the armoury, we see the entry for 'force weapon' which details how it works. At no point anywhere in Codex: Daemonhunters are we referred to the main rulebook (unlike every other codex, where the entry says 'rules for force weapons are detailed in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook on pg. XX' and so on). Therefore, our rules for force weapons are self-contained. Following the established progression of FAQ > codex > main rulebook, there has been no clarification in any of the FAQ's to change. So again, we follow our codex rules (just as we do for our mediocre storm shields, assault cannons etc).

 

Background-nerd: Grandmasters are indisputably some of the most powerful and highly-trained psykers in the entire Imperium. They frequently go toe-to-toe with monsters that would shatter the sanity of mortals, and eat even other Astartes without much effort. It would seem fitting that the only force weapons that would work on Daemons (injecting a reference to recent rules here) are those wielded by Daemonhunters (ie Inquisitors and Grandmasters). The same 'banish your essence' ability would also work on other targets just as well (if not more so, because Daemons have a very strong connection to the warp, and thus can draw on energies to counteract the will of the Grandmaster).

 

Appeal to meta-game: On balance, given the sacrifices we make everywhere else in the army (zero real anti-tank, no transports aside from Landraiders, small expensive forces), letting Daemonhunter players use the rules of their codex (which incidentially is supported by GW in their FAQ > codex > main rulebook progression) seems to me to be a pretty minor concession from other players. It also bears remembering that there is only one model in the army who can take advantage of this, he's an expensive HQ, and he possesses no 'Eternal Warrior' himself.

[Inquisitor Fox]

There's actually four models (potentially) in the Codex that can do this... that being the GK GM, BC Stern, any Inquisitor Lord, and any elites slot Inquisitor. While background and meta-game I completely agree with you, I just find arguing things like that on sheer verbage to be a bit questionable for my own personal taste and preferences.

 

In my mind, removing all remaining wounds from a model renders it instantly dead, which is instantly killing it, which is 'Instant Death.' I find it silly to try and expect a codex from seven+ years ago to predict the future and use the same verbage that the main rulebook two editions later is going to use. By the same token, I played and allowed people to play the Imperial Guard sniper rifles causing pinning, as the main rulebook said all sniper weapons caused pinning even though the IG Codex at the time didn't notate pinning after a sniper rifle. *shrugs* It's just the way I do things, and is my own personal gaming style. It seems completely against the spirit of the rules and the game to try and take advantage of a very very minor technicality especially since the community in my area seems to really not agree with that sort of RAW lawyering to being with. Techniaclly speaking, RAW I see a point to it, I just don't happen to agree with it on a personal level is all :P

[Hinti]

I support Reclusiarch Darius to 100%!!!!!!

 

The entry in our Codex does NOT refer to the "Instant Death" Rule as per RB!!!

[number6]

I'm surprised this GM NFW debate is happening yet again. :)

 

I vote to shelve it because it seems like all parties have stated their interpretations quite clearly and yet neither party is budging an inch.

 

Time to move on to greener pastures, I say!

[Hinti]

I'm surprised this GM NFW debate is happening yet again. :)

 

I vote to shelve it because it seems like all parties have stated their interpretations quite clearly and yet neither party is budging an inch.

 

Time to move on to greener pastures, I say!

 

This debate will NEVER end.....until a new Codex ist out, or GW launch a FAQ!!!

 

 

BUT

You're right.

My initial Question was aswered.

So maybe a nice Mod can close this here!!

 

Thanks to all for your Input!!!!........allways a good thing.

 

Hinti

[daboarder]

Yeah the NFW doesnt inflict instant death, but as stated previously its still not going to work on a gargantuan creature so lets just move on shall we.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Quick shot across the bow and then I'm out...promise No.6

 

- Stern is only for Daemonhunter armies, and he's actually weaker than a Grandmaster. Plus his re-roll ability and 'free Lord of Change for the enemy' rules kinda hurt you more than he gives benefit.

- Grandmaster is able to be allied, but he'll be the only model in that army that uses the Daemonhunter force weapon rules.

- Unless you're playing Apocalypse, it would be rare to see Stern+Grandmaster in the same army (because they both require retinues, transportation etc...not to mention the points overhead).

- Inquisitor Lords with a force weapon are a bad joke....Elite Inquisitors with a force weapon is just shooting yourself in the leg. There is no way you'll be able to kit out Inquisitors with force weapons, wargear and retinues, and still have points for a Grandmaster and/or Stern. Not unless you like losing. Pro-tip: DH Inquisitors suck in close-combat.