Once you drop, the fun gets confused

[Seahawk]

Having a debate over on the AWC boards (follow the linky) involving the following idea: When you disembark troops, can you move the vehicle away, then the troops, or is it RAW for the troops to move first and the vehicle must wait?

 

My position is that you must move the troops first and finish them completely because of the following lines:

 

"...then the passengers may disembark and move normally. The vehicle can also then move normally."

 

"Once you have started moving a unit, you must finish its move before you start to move another unit. You may not go back and change the move already made by a previous unit."

 

In the first line, I read it as an order of operations. The guys get out and can move normally. Then, the vehicle can move normally. Is this right? How else can it be interpreted? The second line is just so simple, but applied here it can be muddled? Does disembarking count as moving? I say yes, as your weapons are affected as such. Thus, if you only "move" out of the vehicle, then move the vehicle, the guys cannot move again.

 

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Next, when a unit is in close combat and all of it's enemies are blown away by a stray (ie, scattered onto it, for those that would say you can't fire into combat ;)) ordnance shell, do they make a consolidate move? Say Honor Guard were fighting IG, and a battle cannon shell blew away the IG but left the 2+ armor dudes unharmed. Consolidate or stand still? I believe you stand still because 1) it wasn't the end of a close combat, 2) it wasn't a rally, and 3) I couldn't find precedents at the time...

[Arnil]

One would disembark and move the troops in a single movement. They have to be distinguished because you have to see if all the models can disembark and if they can't, without moveing away from the vehicle, the models are destroyed after that resolution the unit may continue on it's way and then the vehicle can move. But why would ot really matter that much? I can't think of a situation in which the order really matters. It is like multiplication. A times B equals B times A. In the end of the movement phase all the models are in the place desired regardless of order in which they moved.

[Grey Mage]

Disembark and then finish your move. Disembarkation isnt a second move, its just a particular type of free movement.

 

And I can think of a few situations where it would make a difference.... its more obvious if you play fantasy, but sometimes you just cant get everything where you want it without doing it quite precisely.

 

As for the consolidation move... Id say the fairest thing would be to give them the d6" consolidation move as part of the assault phase.

[Koremu]

There are two separate moves involved; The Transports movement, and the Transported Units movement.

 

Regardless of what order you do the two moves in, you must do them as discrete moves.

 

Either; The Transport moves, and then the unit disembarks (as part of its move) and moves (if allowed),

 

Or; The unit Disembarks and moves, and then the Transport moves away.

 

What you can't do is move a transport, get out, and then continue the transports movement.

 

Also, disembarkation does count as movement for the purposes of shooting.

[Arnil]

When all of the other side of an assault die the assault is over. If this happens in the shooting phase then the survivors aren't in combat when the assault phase comes around. This means they can launch another assault but no consolidations. This makes fluffy sense too. Your fighting and suddenly a bomb goes off and the enemy is dead. So you see a new one and charge forward.

[Isiah]

I would say no consolidation move on the grounds that the enemy unit wasn't killed at the right time to allow the attackers the move. Under consolidation it says:

 

"At the end of a combat [...]". [bRB p40]

 

with the example given in Seahawk's question, the target unit would actually be dead and gone before the combat phase for that particular turn arrived. Even if locked in combat from a previous turn – no combat has taken place this turn to force a resolution. So the assaulting unit just moves off to find a fresh target to thump.

 

Cheers

I

[Iron Father Rik]

Regardless of what order you do the two moves in, you must do them as discrete moves.

 

Either; The Transport moves, and then the unit disembarks (as part of its move) and moves (if allowed),

 

No. If the unit disembarks after the transport has moved, the unit is not allowed to move any further than the 2" disembarkation move, believe it or not.

[Koremu]

Regardless of what order you do the two moves in, you must do them as discrete moves.

 

Either; The Transport moves, and then the unit disembarks (as part of its move) and moves (if allowed),

 

No. If the unit disembarks after the transport has moved, the unit is not allowed to move any further than the 2" disembarkation move, believe it or not.

That's why it says "if allowed". Normal rules prevent this, but if memory serves there are units that you can disembark from and then move normally after they have moved.

 

My point was that the two units (Transporter and Transportee) have separate moves and one must be completed before the other takes place.

[Seahawk]

Thanks for the added ideas. This is the way our group decided to play it (the combat blatting at least) and it seemed the most fair.

[ShinyRhino]

At first thought, I couldn't see why you couldn't do the following:

 

1. Movement phase begins, with a Rhino containing a unit.

2. Unit disembarks up to 2" from the access points.

3. Rhino moves away, then pivots to provide cover.

4. Unit moves up to 6" to maximize cover from the Rhino.

 

But, then I read the rule about how each unit must complete its move before another can begin, and it convinced me that you can not do the above. Bummer.

[Seahawk]

It's still possible to do that, but you just need to reverse the order of units. Disembark, move into the same formation, then move the rhino to block.

[Grey Mage]

Or move the rhino, disembark behind it like normal?

[ShinyRhino]

I think one of the thinsg that may be the end goal of a desired disembark, move Rhino, move Unit scenario is wanting your squad to be placed in the former footprint of the Rhino. Say, to claim an objective in a bottleneck, but also block the incoming enemy from accessing the bottleneck by placing the Rhino in the way.

 

Take, for example, an objective parked at the end of a 24" alleyway between two impassable buildings. The squad is embarked in the Rhino, which is sitting right behind the objective. An enemy squad is moving down the alley toward you. Inorder to keep the enemy from contesting the objective, yu have to disembark the squad, move them forward, and then block the alley with the Rhino. If you disembark behind the Rhino, you're more than 3" from the ojective,a nd can't get by your own unit to claim. However, if it's legal to disembark, them drive the Rhino 12" forward to block the alley, and THEN move the squad its 6", you can claim the objective.

 

This all assumes a scenario where the side hatches of the Rhino are blocked by impassable terrain or other models or something. Very narrow usage, even if it were legal.

[Leonaides]

Or jsut drive the rhino forward til its past the objective (as in your example) then get out of the back. Or stay in the rhino. The enemy squad must destroy the tank to get past it, and then you emergency disembark into the space behind the rhino, putting you back within distance of the objective. As long as the rear of your rhino is within 5" of the objective, this is perfectly allowable.