Companies 6-9

[Avenger Of The Lion]

Ok before I start my DA army I just have one final question. I read that companies 6 to 9 are specifically certain types of troops. 6 and 7 being tactical troops, 8 being assault and 9 devastators.

 

My question is if I was going by fluff if I were to do say the 7th company but wanted to include a devastator unit and and assault unit, would it be ok to give them the company banner of the 7th or would their armour insignia be under the 8th. I ask as I like to stay as close to fluff as possible.

 

Thanks

AOTL

[brennus]

My knowledge is a bit on the old and rusty side, but here's my take. The reserve companies are used to bolster other formations - squads from reserve companies would still retain their company markings (and back banners, if you use them).

 

The unifying factor to an army like this would be the campaign badge, usually painted onto the greave protecting the lower right leg. The campaign badge would be the same for the entire force.

[Grand Master Belial]

I would concur with the above. The Reserves would maintain their Company markings otherwise the Deathwing and Ravenwing would be painting their armor green in order to fight alongside another company. One way to illustrate that they are reserves is to number the squad outside the Battle Company standard. 10th Tactical, 2nd Devastator squad, etc...

 

Mysteriously, campaign badges seem to have fallen by the wayside at GW. I don't see them mentioned much anymore.

[exsulis81]

Per the codex organization our 6th Reserve Company is a trained on bikes, and the 7th is trained to use land speeders.

[Avenger Of The Lion]

So fluff wise if I wanted a company that has a mix of all the different soldier type then the best bet is to go 3-5. Fair doos I ask because I don't see many people playing as these (6-9) companies and I wanted to try have something different. So it might mean I create my own DA Successor a bit down the line as it gives me room to get my own characters down and get creative.

[brennus]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't make a force put together from different companies. As previously noted, the first and second company are frequently called upon to reinforce other formations. As a matter of fact, marines drawn from various companies and commanded by an Interrogator-Chaplain or Librarian is more than reasonable, fluff-wise. Different company Masters might get bruised egos about who would be in command, though.

 

Just my thoughts.

[EPK]

I agree with all that is being said. The galaxy is a big place, you have to consider that the not all of one Company can even always fight together. If 3rd Company has portions of it's marines out on the other side of the galaxy, why not call in reinforcements if needed from a more nearby reserve company or even another battle company or DW/RW. In addition, I don't see why one of the reserve companies may in fact be the closest to any given operation and respond first.

 

In the massive undertaking of the Siege of Vraks it is noted as involving elements of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd as well as the entire 5th Company. In addition, they were further supported by elements of three separate reserve companies and the armory.

 

The Master of the 3rd and 5th were both present as well as Grand Master Azrael, an Int. Chaplain, and 5 Librarians.

 

That's quite a large and eclectic group of DA. The only way it could have been more diverse was the addition of support from successor chapters.

 

With all that in mind, I think you have quite a bit of leeway on your own army. The only definite thing you would have to do, per fluff, is that if you have a 6th Company army you would have to draw Devastators from another and Assualt Marines from yet another (or a battle company) .

[konrad1]

Per the codex organization our 6th Reserve Company is a trained on bikes, and the 7th is trained to use land speeders.

where?

[Avenger Of The Lion]

@exsulis81 the reason I put the 6th and 7th were tactical squads is because it says on the Lexicanum page though I am not sure how bang on it is.

 

@ the others, ok thanks for the information If I weren't a noobie I would just do a successor chapter but to start off with that might be a bit too deep. I might do the 6th or 7th with 8th and 9th assistant under the banner of a IC or something I'm not sure yet. Could just go with 3-5. Anyway thanks all for the help

[exsulis81]

Per the SM codexes going all the way back. It states that the 6th Reserve Company is trained, and fielded on bikes. IE where they normally come from in a Non-DA/WS list. Same thing for the 7th company.

 

Per the DA codex we're the same except for our command structure, and the 1st, and 2nd companies. IE our reserve companies are unchanged by our hunt for the fallen, and the 3-5th battle Companies.

 

 

From a gaming perspective

In in the 3.5 DA codex, we could field Greenwing bikers, and speeders, and the 3.0 made mention of them as well. I believe it was Phil Kelly who was the one that explained the change as GW not wanting to take away from the uniqueness of the Ravenwing.

[EPK]

Per the SM codexes going all the way back. It states that the 6th Reserve Company is trained, and fielded on bikes. IE where they normally come from in a Non-DA/WS list. Same thing for the 7th company.

 

Per the DA codex we're the same except for our command structure, and the 1st, and 2nd companies. IE our reserve companies are unchanged by our hunt for the fallen, and the 3-5th battle Companies.

 

 

From a gaming perspective

In in the 3.5 DA codex, we could field Greenwing bikers, and speeders, and the 3.0 made mention of them as well. I believe it was Phil Kelly who was the one that explained the change as GW not wanting to take away from the uniqueness of the Ravenwing.

 

I don't recall it saying that in the DA codex at all. And the Codex Astartes doesn't quite say that either -

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/image...rganisation.jpg

 

It clearly shows that the 6th and 7th Companies are both 10 Tacticals with Bike and Land Speeder support respectively.

 

EDIT: In C:SM under the Bike Squad entry, it does say: "...To this end, the Codex Astartes dictates that all of a Chapter's Assualt Marines, Scouts and the entire 6th Company should master the art of mounted warfare as part of their training regiment."

 

 

So in that regard, I see what you are getting at, but I think it is implying that they should learn and train on them, not necessarily always be fielded on them.

[Isiah]

Per the codex organization our 6th Reserve Company is a trained on bikes, and the 7th is trained to use land speeders.

 

This feature has now been dropped from the 4th Ed DA Codex. As DA lists can no longer contain non-RW bikes or speeders as they once could in the 3rd Ed Codex, and all mention of bikes and speeders has gone from the descriptions of the 6th and 7th Cos, we can assume they don't have access to them.

 

Although it begs the question: where does the RW now look for those with an affinity with fast attack vehicles??

[EPK]

Ah yes, good point Isiah.

 

I suppose we can assume they do a bit of recruiting from perhaps Assault marines in both battle and reserve companies to at least have the experience with fast attack tactics as well as directly from the 10th company for their scouting nature. Perhaps fluff could be fleshed out that newly risen scouts accompany a more Veteran battle brother on an attack bike or speeder until they have earned the the right to ride alone.

 

Of course, I'd rather just see them add scout bikers in the next dex either as part of the 10th Co. or as a training unit of the Ravenwing.

[exsulis81]

I shall quote the mighty tome "Companies 6, and 7 are Tactical Companies, each consisting of ten tactical squads. These are intended to act as a reserve which may be used to bolster the main line, launch diversionary attacks or stem enemy flanking moves. Company 6 is trained to use Space Marine bike and the entire company may be deployed as bike squadrons. Similarily, Company 7 squads are trained to fight with land speeders and the company acts as a light vehicle reserve formation."

 

"light vehicle reserve formation" IE something that harkons back to Epic DA with the Ironwing formation.

 

Yes, they are techincally tactical marines but so are the members of the Ravenwind due to the fact that the only difference is the gear(bikes, and LS) from normal marines. The fact remains they(the 6th, and 7th Companies) are trained, and fielded as bikes, and Land speeder formations. It may be omitted from the current rules because JJ wanted something rediculously simple but that doesn't mean they don't do it.

 

Yes, the 4th Ed DA is pretty pitiful on the chapters Organization. The 3rd edition mini dexes had more information on our chapter's layout. The lack of info on the 6th, and 7th Companies started with the 4e SM codex.

[Mystic Lemur]

I love the idea of playing the Reserve companies. I'm doing something similar, actually. My army is the 3rd company, but if I want to run a different configuration I just use spare models that will be painted up as Reserves. For example, if my 3rd Tac squad usually runs a Lascannon, the Lascannon guy will be painted up 3rd Squad, 3rd Co. but if I want to run a Multi Melta the guy might be painted up 4th Squad, 8th Co.

 

No one said the reserve squads are always fielded whole, after all.

[Avenger Of The Lion]

I love the idea of playing the Reserve companies. I'm doing something similar, actually. My army is the 3rd company, but if I want to run a different configuration I just use spare models that will be painted up as Reserves. For example, if my 3rd Tac squad usually runs a Lascannon, the Lascannon guy will be painted up 3rd Squad, 3rd Co. but if I want to run a Multi Melta the guy might be painted up 4th Squad, 8th Co.

 

No one said the reserve squads are always fielded whole, after all.

 

Yea me to as imo it adds the ability to get your own hero down and because there are not a lot of people doing the reserve companies so it is all different. Also It will look like a propper war as they will be all men from all companies like it would be lol. I have done a test model Landspeeder which I rushed so its gone horribly wrong with glue on the outside and its a mess lol. I will how ever do my Master of the 6th in the next few days as I have done the odd previous small model so I know what I am doing with them :D.

 

Again thanks for all the help guys AOTL

[Vodunius]

It may be omitted from the current rules because JJ wanted something rediculously simple but that doesn't mean they don't do it.

 

Or possibly he remembered that back when they first came up with the modern Chapter structure back in Armies of the Imperium (1991) the Dark Angels explicitly couldn't deploy as Land Speeders or Bikes like the Blood Angels or Ultramarines.

 

The - editorial messed up riddled - 2nd edition codex did state that the tactical reserve companies deployed as bikes and speeders, but the neither the organisational chart opposite nor the rules backed it up.

 

Non-Ravenwing bikes and speeders were aledgedly added to 3rd edition in a subsequent issue of White Dwarf, they were not however present in the original codex (at least not the printing have)

 

Yes, the 4th Ed DA is pretty pitiful on the chapters Organization. The 3rd edition mini dexes had more information on our chapter's layout.

 

Care to point us to a page in the 3e dex with this info you speak of? all I can find is a single paragraph on page 12 about what squads the reserve companies have..

[EPK]

I shall quote the mighty tome "Companies 6, and 7 are Tactical Companies, each consisting of ten tactical squads. These are intended to act as a reserve which may be used to bolster the main line, launch diversionary attacks or stem enemy flanking moves. Company 6 is trained to use Space Marine bike and the entire company may be deployed as bike squadrons. Similarily, Company 7 squads are trained to fight with land speeders and the company acts as a light vehicle reserve formation."

 

And there in lies the downfall of your theory. "May be deployed as..." which implies they have the option.

[Avenger Of The Lion]

A bit unrealted but there is no point in making a new thread. I want my Master to have a Thunder Hammer but be in normal power armour. Where and how would be the best place to get that weapon and would it be two handed or one.

[exsulis81]

It may be omitted from the current rules because JJ wanted something rediculously simple but that doesn't mean they don't do it.

 

Or possibly he remembered that back when they first came up with the modern Chapter structure back in Armies of the Imperium (1991) the Dark Angels explicitly couldn't deploy as Land Speeders or Bikes like the Blood Angels or Ultramarines.

 

The - editorial messed up riddled - 2nd edition codex did state that the tactical reserve companies deployed as bikes and speeders, but the neither the organisational chart opposite nor the rules backed it up.

 

Non-Ravenwing bikes and speeders were allegedly added to 3rd edition in a subsequent issue of White Dwarf, they were not however present in the original codex (at least not the printing have)

 

I don't remember that publication(Armies of the Imperium(1991)), and I don't even see an ISBN associated with it. Based on the age its a Rogue trader Era book but it's not one I, or my friends have.

 

I have both the 3.0 dex written by JJ, and the 3.5 IE the second edition printing of the 3.0 codex updated by Gav. So it's not just a white dwarf update. Its ridiculously funny how so many people have the 3.0 dex that was in print for a Year, and the other one(3.5) was in Print for the ball park of 7 years, and the number of people I talk to that don't have the updated one.

 

The Organizational chart still doesn't show a specific place for bikers, and Landspeeders to exist. It just shows tactical marines, and the references as I've pointed out have become less, and less since the 4th ed marine dex.

 

Yes, the 4th Ed DA is pretty pitiful on the chapters Organization. The 3rd edition mini dexes had more information on our chapter's layout.

 

Care to point us to a page in the 3e dex with this info you speak of? all I can find is a single paragraph on page 12 about what squads the reserve companies have..

 

Same page its in the 3.5 codex. The second printing wasn't just a White dwarf as it became a full on reprint. Next to the Ravenwing info.

 

 

 

I shall quote the mighty tome "Companies 6, and 7 are Tactical Companies, each consisting of ten tactical squads. These are intended to act as a reserve which may be used to bolster the main line, launch diversionary attacks or stem enemy flanking moves. Company 6 is trained to use Space Marine bike and the entire company may be deployed as bike squadrons. Similarily, Company 7 squads are trained to fight with land speeders and the company acts as a light vehicle reserve formation."

 

And there in lies the downfall of your theory. "May be deployed as..." which implies they have the option.

 

not so much a theory as a use of the passage. You don't spend a decent amount of your time training to kill using something, and then ignore that training. Your sitting on it, and being trained to use it doesn't mean it changes what you are. Are scout bikers considered non-scouts? NO , they are still considered scouts even though they train, and eventually get promoted to being a marine the bikers are likely sent to the divisions where they can use that training. Its simple your making a killing machine, and the ones that have the aptitude for riding bikes get them, and train on them, and when they're done they get promoted to where they'll get the most use out of that training.

[exsulis81]

A bit unrealted but there is no point in making a new thread. I want my Master to have a Thunder Hammer but be in normal power armour. Where and how would be the best place to get that weapon and would it be two handed or one.

 

I miss the old bitz from GW. Model wise: there is INQ Cortez, Assault Terminators(this does require some shaving), The old Masters of the Chapter had one guy with a Thunder hammer.

 

http://www.nitrodude.com.au/catalog/images/99110101331.gif

 

Pretty much all the ones I can think of are one handed.

 

Ooo, and the spacewolf box box has one too. or at least those are the kits that have them.

[Avenger Of The Lion]

A bit unrealted but there is no point in making a new thread. I want my Master to have a Thunder Hammer but be in normal power armour. Where and how would be the best place to get that weapon and would it be two handed or one.

 

I miss the old bitz from GW. Model wise: there is INQ Cortez, Assault Terminators(this does require some shaving), The old Masters of the Chapter had one guy with a Thunder hammer.

 

http://www.nitrodude.com.au/catalog/images/99110101331.gif

 

Pretty much all the ones I can think of are one handed.

 

Ooo, and the spacewolf box box has one too. or at least those are the kits that have them.

 

Yea unfortunately they have wolf insignia on them so I am a bit stumped as I want to go with my own pose for my guys

[EPK]

I believe this GW conversion pack has thunder hammers held by Power armor arms (not terminator arm)...

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...dId=prod1400033

[Avenger Of The Lion]

Ah nice thanks for that, I can't see though are they 1 handed or 2 as to me they look like it could be 2 handed

[Brother-Redemptor]

If you can get your hands on it, I know for a fact that one 08/09 (maybe earlier, but you can get it on ebay) Gamesday mini was a Spacemarine Capt that is in a running position, in power armour and has a two handed thunderhammer. Its an awesome model. Will try and post a pic later of it. Only pic i could find was a green stuff view, but it will give you the idea.

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/10/news-gamesday-2008-limited-release-mini.html