Ultra v Chaos

[Sparhawk]

Alright so I'll be playing my very first game against CSM this coming saturday. We don't have our points yet but it will most likely shake out between 1500 and 2000. I've seen him play one game before and IIRC this was what his list looked like.

 

HQ

Daemon Prince with Blight (or something like that)

Daemon Prince with Warptime and Wings

 

Chosen with Marked champion

1 2xOblits

1 1xOblit

1x Termicide

 

Several units of deepstriking lesser daemons that can assault after dsing

 

He had virtually no vehicles and I still have to look up his rules to see what everything can do so I don't go in blind.

 

My standard deployment would be

 

Libby

2x 10 man Tacs with Melta and ML w/Rhinos (Maybe PF)

 

Combi-pred

2xLS typhoons

2xVindicators

 

9 Sternguard w/Rhino

...

 

This is a list that I took about 2 minutes to think up so what do you think and is there anything I should watch out for. This is a friendly game and the guy likes to run a kind of nurgle list so plague marines are a possibility (but not a certainty) and there is vitrually no chance of Lash.

[minigun762]

HQ

Daemon Prince with Blight (or something like that)

Daemon Prince with Warptime and Wings

 

Chosen with Marked champion

1 2xOblits

1 1xOblit

1x Termicide

 

Several units of deepstriking lesser daemons that can assault after dsing

Where is his troops? Lesser Daemons count as Troops BUT they don't count towards the 2+ minimum, so he needs to be using 2 squads of Chaos Marines or Cult Marines.

 

As for his list, its pretty standard for Chaos. Oblits will try to knock out your armor and dump Plasma blasts on exposed infantry. Termicide will fry the biggest tank on the board. Chosen will Infiltrate or Outflank and bring some special weapons and maybe a Power Fist/Claws. Daemon Princes will rush forward and take out heavy armor (if he's good) or assault infantry.

 

My standard deployment would be

 

Libby

2x 10 man Tacs with Melta and ML w/Rhinos (Maybe PF)

 

Combi-pred

2xLS typhoons

2xVindicators

 

9 Sternguard w/Rhino

 

Libarian will be good to counter DP's powers.

Tac squads with Melta and Power Fists actually make a good counter to Oblits if you can get them into close range. Could always CS them, sit the ML in cover blasting at Daemon Princes and drive the Rhino forward towards his Oblits.

Combi-Predator and Typhoons should target his DPs first and foremost to stop them from getting into combat. After that, aim the Lascannons at Oblits (hope for insta-kill) and Kraks at troops.

Vindicators can target his infantry, especially if he brings Plague Marines since it punches through all their bonuses. They can also support killing the DPs if you need help but thats not optimal.

Sternguard should be used to support your Tacs in Rhinos. Make sure to include a Power Fist in there incase you get assaulted by something. Hellfire rounds will be a great counter to the Daemon Princes, Oblits and Lesser Daemons. If you see Plague Marines, the AP3 rounds will do slightly better.

 

With almost all Chaos lists, he's going to have to come to you, so set up some good fire lanes and keep shooting as long as possible. Fall back if you have to to give yourself an extra turn of shooting but don't forget the objectives. Be aware that the Chosen and Termicide will most likely kill of a tank each when they arrive. Keeping grouped together in the center might help with the Chosen and not giving the Termicide a good place to land will increase the risk of a mishap or deploying outside of Melta range.

[Sparhawk]

Yeah I'm sure he had the 2 standard chaos marine units. I saw the army about 2 weeks ago.

 

I was thinking of bringing my Inquisitor Lord with his Mystics and hood and parking them in a rhino near my valuable vehicles to potentially discourage DSing.

[minigun762]

Yeah I'm sure he had the 2 standard chaos marine units. I saw the army about 2 weeks ago.

 

I was thinking of bringing my Inquisitor Lord with his Mystics and hood and parking them in a rhino near my valuable vehicles to potentially discourage DSing.

 

Possibly but it feels like you're building an army to beat his, which I don't think is what you want to do.

 

A single squad of Termicide isn't that bad, mostly because you aren't using any Land Raiders which is the main reason it exists.

 

Say he takes out a Vindicator, well that tank almost costs the same as his squad and you shouldn't have alot of trouble dumping some Frag missiles or rapid firing Bolters to take out the Terminators next turn.

[Sparhawk]

Actually this game is part of a year long Campaign where we pick on opponent a month to battle so that we can claim territories and upgrades. One of the later upgrades makes your opponent submit his army list to you 24 hours before the battle. So none of us are making all-comers lists for these games because it isn't a tourney environment, we're all building lists with our current opponent in mind because we can change the list after every battle. As it stands I get to take 50 extra points to each battle.

[minigun762]

Actually this game is part of a year long Campaign where we pick on opponent a month to battle so that we can claim territories and upgrades. One of the later upgrades makes your opponent submit his army list to you 24 hours before the battle. So none of us are making all-comers lists for these games because it isn't a tourney environment, we're all building lists with our current opponent in mind because we can change the list after every battle. As it stands I get to take 50 extra points to each battle.

 

Ahh ok, I see. Well then go for it I say.

[Sparhawk]

New thought kicking around since this morning we settled on a 2000pt game. This gives me 2050pts to play with:

 

HQ:

Librarian (Gate, Avenger)

Calgar? (For pure fun. not competitive edge obviously)

 

Troops:

2x10 Tac squads Melta and ML(or PC) sarge w/PF and RBs (Not sure of armament)

 

Elites:

1x9 Sternguard w/PF and 2x Combi-meltas in Rhino with Libby

1x 5 TH/SS Termies in LRR w/MM

 

Heavy:

2x Vindicators

1x Tri-las Pred

 

Fast:

2x LS typhoons w/HB

 

Still thinking about the Inquisitor Lord and Mystics in Rhino to Babysit pred and/or Tellion with Scouts and/or Vindicare to try and snipe Icons before they can become a problem by bringing in his Lesser Daemons.

[minigun762]

I think its too top heavy with the HQs and not enough Troops. 2 Scoring units @ 2k is not enough unless you guys are playing a modified game with little need for objectives.

 

I'd never take a 3x Las Predator when you can take a Combi-Predator for so much cheaper.

 

Drop Gate and take Null Zone instead, more useful against Terminators, Oblits, DPs and Lesser Daemons.

[Sparhawk]

Yeah the Calgar was probly not actually gonna happen. I forgot about all the invulns for the Daemons. Thanks for the advice and I'll post my new ideas once I flesh them out a bit.

[minigun762]

Yeah the Calgar was probly not actually gonna happen. I forgot about all the invulns for the Daemons. Thanks for the advice and I'll post my new ideas once I flesh them out a bit.

 

Don't forget that the biggest advantage that Codex Marines have over Chaos is access to cheap long range firepower. Typhoons, RifleDreads, Combi-Predators, Razorbacks and free heavy weapons all mean you can punish him as he moves across the table towards you.

[Sparhawk]

So here's my list idea. Thoughts?

 

2050 Pts - Space Marines Roster

 

HQ: Space Marine Librarian (1#, 100 pts)

. . 1 Space Marine Librarian @ 100 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; ...in Power Armour; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics; Independent Character; Psyker; Null Zone; The Avenger)

. . . . 1 ...in Power Armour (Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Psychic Hood; Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon)

 

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 245 pts)

. . 9 Tactical Squad @ 245 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Plasma Cannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Razorback)

. . . . 1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)

. . . . 1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

 

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 245 pts)

. . 9 Tactical Squad @ 245 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Plasma Cannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Razorback)

. . . . 1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)

. . . . 1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

 

Troops: Tactical Squad (10#, 180 pts)

. . 9 Tactical Squad @ 180 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun; Missile Launcher; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)

. . . . 1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)

 

Heavy Support: Vindicator (1#, 115 pts)

. . 1 Vindicator @ 115 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter)

 

Heavy Support: Vindicator (1#, 115 pts)

. . 1 Vindicator @ 115 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter)

 

Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 120 pts)

. . 1 Predator @ 120 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Autocannon; Lascannon (each side))

 

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (2#, 180 pts)

. . 2 Land Speeder Squadron @ 180 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Heavy Bolter x2; Typhoon Missile Launcher x2; Deep Strike)

 

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (10#, 300 pts)

. . 8 Sternguard Veteran Squad @ 300 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Special Issue Ammunition; Bolt Pistol x8; Bolter x6; Combi-Meltagun x2; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Rhino)

. . . . 1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Special Issue Ammunition; Melta Bombs; Bolter; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)

. . . . 1 Rhino (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 10 models; Access Points: 3; Fire Points: 1; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Repair)

 

Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (6#, 450 pts)

. . 4 Terminator Assault Squad @ 450 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x4; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Land Raider Redeemer)

. . . . 1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)

. . . . 1 Land Raider Redeemer (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Access Points: 3; Frag Assault Launchers; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Multi-Melta; 2x Flamestorm Cannons; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Assault Vehicle; Power of the Machine Spirit)

 

 

Total Roster Cost: 2050

[minigun762]

I like it, upgrading to PC is a smart move in my opinion and the TL Heavy Bolter will help against any non-PM infantry.

 

I think I'd rather do 2x Combi-Predators because the PC give you some AP2 blast weapons already and coupled with the Flamestorm cannons and option to lay down Frag blasts, you seem to have template weapons covered but you lost some anti-tank when you dropped the ML for PC because they have better range, better S, cheaper and no overheat.

 

For the points, just drop the Meltabombs off the Sternguard.

[Sparhawk]

I only own 1 pred right now so the 2 vindys will have to stay. The one thing I was thinking about was whether you thought I would get more bang from the 3rd Tac squad or would I be better off throwing a unit of Scouts with Tellion to try and snipe icons to prevent the Daemons from hitting the board?

[minigun762]

I only own 1 pred right now so the 2 vindys will have to stay. The one thing I was thinking about was whether you thought I would get more bang from the 3rd Tac squad or would I be better off throwing a unit of Scouts with Tellion to try and snipe icons to prevent the Daemons from hitting the board?

 

If you picked up Scouts, they'd be better off targeting the DPs and hoping to stack wounds on them. Lesser Daemons are an annoyance, a tarpit unit or a cheap objective grabber. Point for point, I think they're about the same as a Tactical squad in HtH since they have 2 attacks but a 5++ save only. My point is, I wouldn't worry too much about them to be honest. Staying in your transports is always an option, the best they can do is glance the rear armor. Plus a tank shock + Flamer/rapid fire will typically make them disappear.

[nurglez]

Let us know how this game goes :D

 

And for further knowledge, I'm a chaos player, current playing at the 1500 point level with my friends and experienced at beating chaos.

 

And chaos are just like your regular non spiky marines, though they can have a few MC's, fearless troops that are damn decent at their specialisation (plague marines are damn survivable, berserkers are very nice in combat etc).

 

Also have access to lesser daemons, which seemed to be scaring you, lesser daemons are basically a marine level close combat squad with a worse save, I don't fear these at all, they cant effect vehicles and a squad of 10 will barely scratch one of my squads (though I do run a death guard list so only have plague marines as troops).

 

Termicide (3 termies with combi meltas who deepstrike next to something and hit it with 3 meltagun shots) can be nasty, as if he is lucky you can kiss goodbye to one of your vehicles on the 2nd turn, oblitorators are nasty but fall to weight of fire, as do daemon princes (I've lost count of the amount of times lascannons/battlecannon shots bounce off my prince, then takes 3 wounds to a bunch of autocannon shots).

[Sparhawk]

Well I managed to pull off a fairly good win.

[minigun762]

Did you post up a.battle report ?

[Sparhawk]

Not yet. Our campaign has a blog that we use to post the batreps and the vanquished has to put up the batrep by the end of the month.

 

But if anyone would be interested in reading the batrep I'd be happy to type one up.

[nurglez]

battle reports are always interesting, nice to see how other people fight :P

[Velkairiwyth]

I am also playing chaos for the first time in a long time soon...

 

Personally Im going for a null deployment khan biker army with some decent templating armour as backup (vindicator, plascan dread, typhoons.)

 

My biggest dilemma at the moment is wether to give the command squad 3 plasma guns or 4 melta guns :/ no idea what will be brought to the table... plan to coordinate with two other bike squads wirth 2 melta guns each (and 1 mm atk bike in one) - but landraider cracking ability on HQ could be useful so they can Nom up the insides if the biker support lands on the wrong side of the table (or not at all!)

 

Choices! hehe