Grey Knight successor chapter?

[Golindar]

Hi battle brothers,

 

I'm thinking about finally branching away from the codex space marines. I have built a large collection of space marines painted imperial fist yellow, and I'm ready for a change. For my second army, I think I'm going to give the Inquisition a go. I like that they are able to mix guardsmen, power armor, terminator armor, and both Marine and Guard vehicles. Plus inquisitors are the badest dudes around.

 

I'm not really caught up with any of the background material regarding the formation of the Inquisition and the Grey Knights. Would an inquisitor ever go to war with a chapter other than the Grey Knights? A successor chapter perhaps?

 

What I am really trying here to ask from the more experienced and informed B&C members is this:

 

Would it be plausible that a group of "renegade, radical" inquisitors would lead a group of inquisition storm troopers and a small successor chapter of Grey Knights or a renegade chapter of space marines?

 

Thanks.

[Whitefireinferno]

Its a no to the GK successor. BUT its a yes that some Radical Inquisitors would play with some "traitors" But it would still need to be from a loyalist codex.

[Brovius]

Grey Knights are a second founding chapter, so do not have successor chapters.

Unfortunately, if you want to use things like Daemonhosts, you can not have Grey Knights. They will never work alongside a radical Inquisitor

[Chengar Qordath]

Grey Knights are a second founding chapter, so do not have successor chapters.

Unfortunately, if you want to use things like Daemonhosts, you can not have Grey Knights. They will never work alongside a radical Inquisitor

Grey Knight will work with most types of Radical Inquisitors. The reason you cannot take Grey Knights and Daemonhosts in the same army is because Grey Knights would never fight alongside a Daemonhost, not because they would never fight alongside a Radical. Keep in mind, making a Daemonhost is enough to get any Inquisitor labeled Excommunicate Traitoris, in which case they're cut off from all Inquisition resources. A Radical who had a Daemonhost would not want Grey Knights anywhere near said Daemonhost in the first place.

 

A lot of people seem to make the mistake of assuming that all Radicals are Excommunicate Traitoris and cut off from any official Inquisition resources. Most Radical Inquisitors are still very much a part of the Inquisition, and aside from the fact that they privately or openly (within the Inquisition) practice non-traditional methods or advocate such beliefs does not impede their ability to function. Grey Knights would not have a major objection to working alongside a Recongregator or any other Radical that does not have dealings with Chaos. A Xanthite would be more problematic, but I expect the Grey Knights would still work alongside the Inquisitor while subjecting said Xanthite to intense scrutiny.

 

Grey Knights work for the Inquisition, and the vast bulk of Radicals are still part of the Inquisition.

[Brovius]

The thing is, radical Inquisitors believe in using the enemy's weapons against them. Radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, therefore, believe in using Daemons to fight Daemons. A belief the Grey Knights do not share.

Many people make the mistake of assuming that the Ordo Malleus is in charge of the Grey Knights chapter, which is untrue. It's like saying the High Lords of Terra command the rest of the Adeptus Astartes. They are separate entities who fight because of the same goal. The destruction of the daemonic is a common goal for the ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights, which leads to them working together, but the Grey Knights are led by their own chamber of Grand Masters. At least one of these Grand Masters is a member of the inner enclave of the Inquisition.

The Grey Knights may work with a radical if they do not know their intentions, but as soon as the radical utilizes Daemons, the Grey Knights are likely to either kill the Inquisitor, or drag him before the rest of the Ordo Malleus to be declared traitoris excommunicatus. The former is more likely.

[Oiad]

The closest thing you'll get to a successor chapter is the Exorcists. They would not use Grey Knight rules though as they are somewhat unique to the chapter. A good idea on another thread around here was to use the BA ruleset with them instead.

 

Plus inquisitors are the badest dudes around.

Unfortunatley, only in fluff.

[Chengar Qordath]

The thing is, radical Inquisitors believe in using the enemy's weapons against them. Radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, therefore, believe in using Daemons to fight Daemons. A belief the Grey Knights do not share.

Some Radicals believe in using the weapons of the enemy against them, but to use that as the sole definition of a Radical is far too narrow and contrary to GW fluff. For starters, that definition disqualifies two of the three main Radical factions: the Recongregators and Istvaanians, from being Radicals. I doubt the Grey Knights care much about an Inquisitors political or philosophical inclinations as long as said Inquisitor continues to fight against and destroy the forces of Chaos.

 

Even working within your incorrect definition of Radicalism, there is room for acceptable variation; I doubt the Grey Knights would be nearly so concerned by an Ordo Malleus inquisitor who has acquired a couple Tau pulse rifles, or who seems to co-operate just a bit too much with the Eldar in stopping a major Chaos incursion.

 

Many people make the mistake of assuming that the Ordo Malleus is in charge of the Grey Knights chapter, which is untrue. It's like saying the High Lords of Terra command the rest of the Adeptus Astartes. They are separate entities who fight because of the same goal. The destruction of the daemonic is a common goal for the ordo Malleus and the Grey Knights, which leads to them working together, but the Grey Knights are led by their own chamber of Grand Masters. At least one of these Grand Masters is a member of the inner enclave of the Inquisition.

The Ordo Malleus and Grey Knights are most certainly not separate entities who just happen to co-operate because they share similar goals; the Grey Knights are permanently attached to the Ordo Malleus. Of course, the relationship is far from a subordinate one; as you pointed out, the Grey Knights have substantial influence within the Inquisition itself. The Grey Knights are symbiotically connected to the Ordo Malleus in terms of functions; the Inquisition finds the threat of Chaos, and then Grey Knights destroy it.

 

The Grey Knights may work with a radical if they do not know their intentions, but as soon as the radical utilizes Daemons, the Grey Knights are likely to either kill the Inquisitor, or drag him before the rest of the Ordo Malleus to be declared traitoris excommunicatus. The former is more likely.

The Grey Knights would kill anyone who traffics with Daemons, Inquisitor or not. However, 99.9% of Radical Inquisitors do not have Daemonhosts.

 

On a related note, I am rather curious about how the Grey Knights would react to a moderate Xanthite who does not cross the line, but clearly dabbles in warp-lore.

 

Plus inquisitors are the badest dudes around.

Unfortunately, only in fluff.

Sad, but true. Gameplay-wise, the Inquisitor can be a semi-decent support HQ, but he is greatly eclipsed in badass potential by hanging out with a bunch of Space Marines who are all psykers and are far more powerful than normal Space Marines.

[Brovius]

Sad, but true. Gameplay-wise, the Inquisitor can be a semi-decent support HQ, but he is greatly eclipsed in badass potential by hanging out with a bunch of Space Marines who are all psykers and are far more powerful than normal Space Marines.

Unfortunately, Grey Knights are only that badass in the fluff. They are the only army in the game, where the troops have the same WS as the HQ. Pity that GW can't take the time to give awesome rules for awesome models.

 

@Oiad, the Exorcists are not Grey Knights at all, rather just people who happened to be Daemonically possessed and managed to purge the Daemon from themselves with their own force of will. An impressive feat, but Grey Knights do not undergo Daemonic possession as part of the Rites Of Detestation from what i know. Although the soul-binding with the Emperor is what really destroys a lot of recruits.

 

The Exorcists are basically power-armoued Illuminati.

[Brovius]

Sad, but true. Gameplay-wise, the Inquisitor can be a semi-decent support HQ, but he is greatly eclipsed in badass potential by hanging out with a bunch of Space Marines who are all psykers and are far more powerful than normal Space Marines.

Unfortunately, Grey Knights are only that badass in the fluff. They are the only army in the game, where the troops have the same WS as the HQ. Pity that GW can't take the time to give awesome rules for awesome models.

 

@Oiad, the Exorcists are not Grey Knights at all, rather just people who happened to be Daemonically possessed and managed to purge the Daemon from themselves with their own force of will. An impressive feat, but Grey Knights do not undergo Daemonic possession as part of the Rites Of Detestation from what i know. Although the soul-binding with the Emperor is what really destroys a lot of recruits.

 

The Exorcists are basically power-armoued Illuminati.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The reason people are bringing up the Exorcists is that according to some information in the short story Headhunted by Steve Parker, they are created from Grey Knight geneseed. They function as a Codex Chapter with 2 extra companies of scouts to account for attrition in their recruitment/implantation/possession process.

 

Inquisitors will work with whatever forces are available at the time that they need them. This does mean sometimes they will use a 'regular' Chapter of Space Marines instead of Grey Knights, or if no Grey Knights are available. It is not something only done by radical Inquisitors ;)

[Chengar Qordath]

Inquisitors will work with whatever forces are available at the time that they need them. This does mean sometimes they will use a 'regular' Chapter of Space Marines instead of Grey Knights, or if no Grey Knights are available. It is not something only done by radical Inquisitors ;)

Very true; there are only a couple thousand Grey Knights, so they can't exactly cover the million or so Imperial worlds. I would assume that Grey Knights only deploy when there is a serious threat to deal with like a major Daemonic incursion or an extremely powerful Warp artifact. Minor tasks like dealing with ordinary Chaos cults probably are not enough to merit GK involvement.

[Golindar]

Unfortunatley, only in fluff.

 

 

This is one of the main thrusts behind starting such an army, and since it is based on fluff, I'm trying to keep the army composition plausible but also unique. How would a squad of Deathwatch marines fit into this equation? Do they fight alongside the Grey Knights in the same army? I think I read somewhere that they were made up of marines from multiple legions. Do you find it plausible for the Deathwatch marines to be made up of a DIY chapter and fight alongside some Grey Knights and guardsmen?

[Chengar Qordath]

Unfortunatley, only in fluff.

This is one of the main thrusts behind starting such an army, and since it is based on fluff, I'm trying to keep the army composition plausible but also unique. How would a squad of Deathwatch marines fit into this equation? Do they fight alongside the Grey Knights in the same army? I think I read somewhere that they were made up of marines from multiple legions. Do you find it plausible for the Deathwatch marines to be made up of a DIY chapter and fight alongside some Grey Knights and guardsmen?

Deathwatch and Grey Knights fighting together would be highly unusual, but it is within the realm of possibility; Xenos get corrupted by Chaos too. That could even be part of the background of your army; they specialize in dealing With xenos corrupted by Chaos, which would explain why they have OX and OM elements in their army.

 

Not sure where your question on DIY chapters comes in; you could certainly have some of the DW marines be from DIY chapters, but since individual Kill-Teams rarely have more than one Marine from any single chapter that hardly seems like something that would be worth mentioning. I imagine most people who build and paint a Deathwatch army end up including some DIY chapter marines just for variety's sake; IIRC there are only a couple dozen official SM color schemes (and some, like Relictors and Exorcists, would not send marines to the Deathwatch) which means you have to get creative if you want to avoid repetition.

[Inquisitor Fox]

(and some, like Relictors and Exorcists, would not send marines to the Deathwatch)

Where are you getting your source on this, as in the short story Headhunted in which we learn that the Exorcists are from Grey Knight geneseed, one of the characters is an Exorcist marine serving in the Deathwatch...

[Chengar Qordath]

(and some, like Relictors and Exorcists, would not send marines to the Deathwatch)

Where are you getting your source on this, as in the short story Headhunted in which we learn that the Exorcists are from Grey Knight geneseed, one of the characters is an Exorcist marine serving in the Deathwatch...

I never read that short story, which explains why I got that one wrong. I just assumed that, since the Exorcists are so very closely tied to the Ordo Malleus, they would not send people to the Deathwatch. I suppose that proves, once again, that making assumptions is a good way to get into trouble.

 

Relictors and Soul Drinkers are a bit clearer on not sending Marines to the Deathwatch, on account of being Excommunicate Traitoris.

[Oiad]

@Oiad, the Exorcists are not Grey Knights at all, rather just people who happened to be Demoniacally possessed and managed to purge the Daemon from themselves with their own force of will. An impressive feat, but Grey Knights do not undergo Daemonic possession as part of the Rites Of Detestation from what I know. Although the soul-binding with the Emperor is what really destroys a lot of recruits.

 

The Exorcists are basically power-armoued Illuminati.

Holy :) people! Learn to correctly analysis and understand what someone has written before you accuse them misunderstanding something themselves. It verges on hypocrisy - something I have no respect for. Never said the Exorcists were Grey Knights, or even a successor chapter! Only that they were the closest thing you were gonna get to it:

 

The closest thing you'll get to a successor chapter is the Exorcists. They would not use Grey Knight rules though as they are somewhat unique to the chapter...

Take into account that the 'illuminated' tend to be more resistant to daemonic persuasion and have a high understanding of the daemon psyche you'd think that would make them good at taking on daemons. And according to fluff it does. After the Grey Knights, they are the 'go to' chapter if you need some Daemons-busting. In fact I'd go on to say they just approach it from a very radical practice, opposed to the puritan-like practices of the GKs. In some ways it fits in with what Golindar is looking for.

 

EDIT - Grammar

[Brovius]

Sorry Oiad, just misinterpreted what you said there.

 

@Chengar, Relictors are heretics which come from a mix of Dark Angels and Ultramarines geneseeds. This explains their radical fascination with Chaos artifacts quite well. There was a DA short story from Galaxy In Flames (I think that was the book) in which the DA claim what is believed to be the sword of their Primarch by slaying the Eldar defending the shrine it is kept in. They later find out it is the sword of Luther, which made it's corrupting nature known.

That, and a great chunk of the DA turned to Chaos.

On a similar note, the Gauntlets of Ultramar are Chaos artifacts, too.

So it isn't the Relictor's fault, radical methods is genetic :blush:

[Chengar Qordath]

@Chengar, Relictors are heretics which come from a mix of Dark Angels and Ultramarines geneseeds. This explains their radical fascination with Chaos artifacts quite well. There was a DA short story from Galaxy In Flames (I think that was the book) in which the DA claim what is believed to be the sword of their Primarch by slaying the Eldar defending the shrine it is kept in. They later find out it is the sword of Luther, which made it's corrupting nature known.

That, and a great chunk of the DA turned to Chaos.

On a similar note, the Gauntlets of Ultramar are Chaos artifacts, too.

So it isn't the Relictor's fault, radical methods is genetic :D

While your post is quite interesting, I don't see how it has any real relevance to anything I posted, beyond being a massive and completely unnecessary infodump on a chapter I mentioned very briefly in passing.

 

On the topic of the Exorcists, considering the fact that all it really takes to qualify as successor chapter is using the same gene-seed, they are GK successors. Of course, since their methods and equipment are completely different from those of the Grey Knights, a lot of people would argue that they are not "true" successors.

[Oiad]

Normally the geneseed alone would count you as a successor in my book, anything else is just a a preference in practice. Take the Imperial Fists and Black Templars as an example. Both share the same geneseed yet both vastly differ in their practical coherence to the Codex Astrates.

 

However, the information on the Exorcist geneseed coming from the Grey Knights is a claim that comes from fanfiction... err sorry, a BL book. While that makes it cannon to most I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

 

Sorry Oiad, just misinterpreted what you said there.

That's alright. I get riled up too easily anyway...

[Brovius]

While your post is quite interesting, I don't see how it has any real relevance to anything I posted, beyond being a massive and completely unnecessary infodump on a chapter I mentioned very briefly in passing.

 

It helps to know about some of the lesser-mentioned chapters out there :D

 

On the topic of the Exorcists, considering the fact that all it really takes to qualify as successor chapter is using the same gene-seed, they are GK successors. Of course, since their methods and equipment are completely different from those of the Grey Knights, a lot of people would argue that they are not "true" successors.

 

It's only rumored that their geneseed comes from the Grey Knights. All that we know for sure is that they were a science project for a few Ordo Malleus Inquisitors. I personally say they are not true successors, because they undergo a completely different initiation method, one that is not chaos-proof like that of the Grey Knights (Only 1% of Exorcists relapsed during their christening battle on a Daemon world, as opposed to the 0% of Grey Knights over 10,000 years)

[Inquisitor Fox]

The text of the short story Headhunted specifically states Grey Knight origin, so it's not rumor. Granted there are those that discount anything published from the Black Library, but it's specifically stated. It's substantial as opposed to say, the Blood Ravens origins.

[Brovius]

The text of the short story Headhunted specifically states Grey Knight origin, so it's not rumor. Granted there are those that discount anything published from the Black Library, but it's specifically stated. It's substantial as opposed to say, the Blood Ravens origins.

 

Hopefully all shall be revealed in the new codex :)

So long as Mat Ward doesn't touch it before it's printed, or else Grey Knights will become the super secret Ultramarines Omega-company or something equally as stupid.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The text of the short story Headhunted specifically states Grey Knight origin, so it's not rumor. Granted there are those that discount anything published from the Black Library, but it's specifically stated. It's substantial as opposed to say, the Blood Ravens origins.

 

QFT, despite how much it breaks the suspension of disbelief. :( I don't know what BL was thinking when they wrote that.

[Oiad]

No surprises. BL books have always embellished on such mythos to satisfy the writers' fantasies. Take a step back and sometimes it only seems a shade better than the dreamed-up, preachy properganda of Matt Ward.