Is the Defiler worth it?

[BryanG412]

Hi all,

 

I've been using a Defiler the past couple of games as a means of long range heavy support. However, I found this approach to be very infective, as the defiler is easily popped with a lascannon. My question is, has anyone used the Defiler successfully? Should I focus on using using the Defiler as an assault unit instead of long range support? Any suggestions are welcome!

[Hemal]

Do you use teh defiler for indirect fire? Because that is where it excels - it is an battlecanon which can sit behind a wood or building and guard itself from the typical flanking units like assault squads, speeders, Wolf Scouts etc

[Hellios]

Hi all,

 

I've been using a Defiler the past couple of games as a means of long range heavy support. However, I found this approach to be very infective, as the defiler is easily popped with a lascannon. My question is, has anyone used the Defiler successfully? Should I focus on using using the Defiler as an assault unit instead of long range support? Any suggestions are welcome!

 

The answer is both... I think... upgrade it so it has extra CC weapons (remember it maintains its battle cannon) and advance and fire, if your main gun is or you just get close enough anyway, fleet forward and engage in CC... especially with units who can't hurt you or with non-walker vehicles (stationary even better... and small walkers like sentinels and War-walkers are ok... basically things without a DCCW).

 

The other thing to consider is how many vehicles do you have and how many vehicles with an AV of 12+ do you have? Because if the defiler is your only vehicle my Anti-tank will be on it... If you have say a lot of rhinos I may put some anti-tank on the Rhinos although they also have fairly light armour so I may use different guns... When it gets to AV12-14 vehicles I now have to choose a target or split my fire. Also even if your defiler gets blown up after only getting one shot in if it helps a transport or two get an extra movement or two then it could be worth its points.

 

Do you use teh defiler for indirect fire? Because that is where it excels - it is an battlecanon which can sit behind a wood or building and guard itself from the typical flanking units like assault squads, speeders, Wolf Scouts etc

 

I don't have the chaos codex with me but I don't think the Defiler can use indirect fire anymore.

[Avarris]

If you set a Defiler up with full CCW arms (leaving only the cannon) you have an absolutely horrible combat machine, 5 Str 10 attacks in a normal round of combat, six on the charge, plus as you have Fleet you can get it into combat much faster. Also the fact you have the battle cannon and you happen to take a weapon destroyed while getting to combat or while in combat its not going to effect your close combat. Also a Defiler is only BS 3 so using the battle cannon wont always hit the target your aiming at.

[BryanG412]

Hey guys thanks a lot for the advice! I think I'm going to go with the extra CCW and move forward firing the battlecannon until I get close enough to use fleet to assault. I also just remembered that ordinance weapons get 2D6 armor penetration, which I wasn't using before. In addition to the Defiler, I have 3 oblits, 3 rhinos, a squad of havocs with 4 meltas, a squad of noise marines with 5 sonic blasters, a sorceror, and a squad of berzerkers. I think moving the Defiler forward instead of letting it sit back will take some fire off my troops and allow them to set up.

[Hellios]

ordinance weapons get 2D6 armor penetration

 

Remember that is 2d6 and pick the highest unlike meltas which is 2d6 combined... however unlike the melta rule it still helps against monoliths!

[Brother Nihm]

Taking this topic home where it belongs.

 

Welcome to Chaos Ascendant. ;)

[minigun762]

Hey guys thanks a lot for the advice! I think I'm going to go with the extra CCW and move forward firing the battlecannon until I get close enough to use fleet to assault.

 

Most of the time, that is the best answer. Chaos armies are almost always aggressive, short range armies so moving forward to get close to the opponent is in their nature. The Defiler gives you some extra long range firepower on the first few turns and some extra assault power once you're close plus it will hopefully absorb incoming fire long enough to keep your Rhinos alive.

 

However, remember that you can use your Defiler as a pure assault unit, fleeting each turn to get into combat early or use it as a dedicated gun platform, moving around the board and blasting the Battlecannon. Its a situational decision whether or not to change how you play your Defiler and experience is the best teacher there.

 

One other thing, even though your BC is S8, don't try to take out AV13/14 with it unless you have nothing else to shoot. Its better against the weaker armor of transports and light tanks.

[Lady_Canoness]

Your army seems to have fire-power well covered, so running and gunning is the way to go. Forget firing at vehicle though (since your seem to have that taken care of with oblits), and let infantry units feel it. Landing a template on a unit hurts even the hordiest of armies! - specially when you can be a real jerk and blow away someone's HQ in one go!!!

[Snugsmike]

A few things to keep in mind:

 

Defilers have smoke launchers. If you suspect drop pods/deep strike madness/a brutal turn of heavy fire, just walk, fleet and pop smoke!

 

Defilers have a search light. If you are trying to get something in lash range on that first turn of night fighting or some such thing. Throw out the old SEARCH LIGHT (and a battle cannon!)!

 

Defilers suck at shooting their other guns. Don't get them, you will always shoot your battle cannon or charge.

 

Defilers will literally wreck just about anything in close combat EXCEPT super-bad-ass I5 S8+ independent characters that can kill your Defiler before you can attack back and Ironclad/Venerable/Regular dreadnaughts. We are hurt by the lower I3 and slightly worse weapon skill. I usually don't fear Powerfists that much as they tend to bounce harmlessly (or near harmlessly) off of my defiler's hull while I kill 3-4 MEQ a turn. Any squad of infantry without a powerfist, or a vehicle that moved 6 or less is literally dead meat (metal).

 

Defilers are fire magnets. Unless your opponent has not had the pleasure of getting totally crushed by 2 Defilers he's ignored, he might ignore your Defilers and get totally crushed. This will only work once! Every game after that, he will target that AV12 with everything under the sun! That means your Rhinos and Deamon Princes will get to where they need to be safer. I have won a lot more games because my Defilers have eaten the first couple of turns of fire than I have when they don't take any fire and my Rhinos go down.

 

Defilers are POSSESSED! What an amazing upgrade! If your Defilers are getting dinged and danged and dipped on the first turn, every so often they will only recieve shaken or stunned results. If they were Vindicators or Predators without Possession, they would be tied up for a turn and the enemy could focus on shooting your Rhinos. Alas, they are not tied up and must be shot some more. Mwhahaha.

 

I always try to fit in three Defilers into my lists. I know it's tough to not use Obliterators, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Good luck!

[chaplain belisarius]

defilers are ace-give them 2DCCW and charge!! (sorry, im a world eaters player...)

[Ace of Gods]

Yeah, i agree on the Defilers being awesome. i use one in my lists alot. and dont underestimate their other guns. Their twin linked Heavy flamer is a great shot into a squad before assaulting them. Weed out the weak before striking in Close combat so you can finish them off faster and get into more fights or shoot more battle cannons. but yea, the fact they have fleet surprises alot of people. The smoke is great i agree, and them being possessed pisses off a lot of ppl. After all is said and done, they pound and swing. miss half the time, dont pen the other, and when they finally do, 1/3 of the time it has no effect. And when they do get weapon destroyed results, they are unsure to try and take out your two CC dread weapons, or to get your battle cannon.

[minigun762]

The biggest drawback to running Defilers over Oblits (in my eyes) is that it hurts your long range anti-tank firepower, which is already a weakness of Chaos in general.

 

Sure the Battle Cannons is flexible enough weapon but its not nearly as reliable at punching through armor and opening transports as a Lascannon.