Anyone deploy Scouts on the board?

[ChainsawDR]

I don't like the risk of Behind Enemy Lines but I'd like to include some scouts in my army, possibly Snipers, but possibly a standard tank hunter setup deployed on the board and able to perform a scout move before turn 1.

 

Does anyone use Scouts without using BEL? if so whats your setup/plan/success?

 

Cheers

 

ChainsawDR

[stinkenheim]

depends on who im facing and what set up i have given them.

 

if they have sniper rifles then no i dont obel them as it wastes their effectiveness for at least 2 turns.

also against armies with low numbers of tanks, or extremely mobile tanks then i am less likely to BEL.

 

Even with their scout move they are unlikely to get a first turn assault though. Just so you know. Its because if deployed in LOS they are required to be more than 18" from the enemy. Out of sight they can be 12" away, but itusually means they have to walk quite a way around the intervening scenery.

[Stormshrug]

I equip my Wolf Scouts for tankbusting and close-combat, so I usually use BEL (and, honestly, you get the table edge you want 2/3rds of the time, so the "risk" is usually pretty low, but to each his own). However, occasionally, I end up in situations where my best option is to deploy them at the start, either because I'm defending and I want numbers on my side at the start, or for a plethora of other miscellaneous and situationally specific reasons. If you don't use BEL, definitely DO use Infiltrate - into or behind cover - since it lets you deploy something after the opponent even if you're going first.

 

If you're using Sniper scouts, definitely deploy them at the start. I'm not a big fan of SW sniper scouts (mostly because BEL is outrageously good), but I *love* regular SM sniper scouts (since they're a troop choice, cheaper, and not competing for a valuable Elite slot in an army with tons of good options there), and I imagine WS snipers work very similarly (pros: +1 BS cons: no access to Camo Cloaks). Infiltrate them into cover immediately after deployment, preferably somewhere difficult to assault where they have a good view of the enemy. You'll be relying on that Cover Save, since they'll probably get shot at a bit.

 

I've heard about people using BEL with sniper scouts, but I really can't see why - snipers rely on having lots of turns to plink away at enemy forces, and their 36" range guns plus Infiltrate mean they can be shooting from the start. While a Close Combat or Tankbusting unit of Scouts can almost always buy its points back in a single turn (and BEL lets them get to their target very easily), a squad of snipers really can't do this - they need to put out a large volume of shots to be useful. You could mix in a melta, but then you've got a squad who is kitted for close- and long-range combat so it won't ever be able to make full use of either its Assault or Heavy weapons...

 

All said, however, I don't know if you're using three packs of Long Fangs, but if you have any Heavy Support slots left, they'd probably make for a better shooty addition to your army than a squad of sniper scouts (who, again, eat up a valuable Elites slot and bring nothing terribly unique if you aren't making use of BEL). Long Fangs with Missle Launchers are cheap, brutal, and will probably out-kill a Sniper pack pretty much any day of the week.

 

-Stormshrug

[Requiem of the Wolf]

I equip my Wolf Scouts for tankbusting and close-combat, so I usually use BEL (and, honestly, you get the table edge you want 2/3rds of the time, so the "risk" is usually pretty low, but to each his own). However, occasionally, I end up in situations where my best option is to deploy them at the start, either because I'm defending and I want numbers on my side at the start, or for a plethora of other miscellaneous and situationally specific reasons. If you don't use BEL, definitely DO use Infiltrate - into or behind cover - since it lets you deploy something after the opponent even if you're going first.

 

If you're using Sniper scouts, definitely deploy them at the start. I'm not a big fan of SW sniper scouts (mostly because BEL is outrageously good), but I *love* regular SM sniper scouts (since they're a troop choice, cheaper, and not competing for a valuable Elite slot in an army with tons of good options there), and I imagine WS snipers work very similarly (pros: +1 BS cons: no access to Camo Cloaks). Infiltrate them into cover immediately after deployment, preferably somewhere difficult to assault where they have a good view of the enemy. You'll be relying on that Cover Save, since they'll probably get shot at a bit.

 

I've heard about people using BEL with sniper scouts, but I really can't see why - snipers rely on having lots of turns to plink away at enemy forces, and their 36" range guns plus Infiltrate mean they can be shooting from the start. While a Close Combat or Tankbusting unit of Scouts can almost always buy its points back in a single turn (and BEL lets them get to their target very easily), a squad of snipers really can't do this - they need to put out a large volume of shots to be useful. You could mix in a melta, but then you've got a squad who is kitted for close- and long-range combat so it won't ever be able to make full use of either its Assault or Heavy weapons...

 

All said, however, I don't know if you're using three packs of Long Fangs, but if you have any Heavy Support slots left, they'd probably make for a better shooty addition to your army than a squad of sniper scouts (who, again, eat up a valuable Elites slot and bring nothing terribly unique if you aren't making use of BEL). Long Fangs with Missle Launchers are cheap, brutal, and will probably out-kill a Sniper pack pretty much any day of the week.

 

-Stormshrug

I set up my scouts on the field,6 scouts,five sniper rifles,and either a heavy bolter or a missile launcher. Almost allways they are set up back behind the enemy lines so I can get vehicles with vulnerable back armor in crossfire situations. Have blasted down a furioso dread from behind in two games that I played against Blood Angels. Great against blasting Preds and Vindi's that move forward to engage your troops. Decent against MC's,specially ones that tend to hang back (Tervigon,and so on) plus it makes them split their focus and thats allways good.

[whitewolfmxc]

Dont know if anybody knows some alternative tricks you can do with our scouts ,

 

1) take 10 men scout with 9 sniper rifles , 1 has missile launcher in exchange with bolt pistol

 

2) all scouts exchange CCW with bolters FOR FREE (since you got sniper rifles you already lose the extra attack so why not)

 

3) you infiltrate into a good firing spot or objective

 

4) you have a unit thats shooty flexible (sniper / Missile for tanks or MC , bolters for regular infantry)

[Fenxis]

All said, however, I don't know if you're using three packs of Long Fangs, but if you have any Heavy Support slots left, they'd probably make for a better shooty addition to your army than a squad of sniper scouts (who, again, eat up a valuable Elites slot and bring nothing terribly unique if you aren't making use of BEL). Long Fangs with Missle Launchers are cheap, brutal, and will probably out-kill a Sniper pack pretty much any day of the week.

 

-Stormshrug

 

THIS.

 

- snipping scouts are a waste compared to LFs

- BEL scouts are good... but very situational dependent. Not so bad as the game is GuardHammer 40k atm.

 

But: scouts do have some of the best conversion possibilities in the SW army.

[ChainsawDR]

cool thanks guys - I think you're right about the Long Fangs being better - I don't think I've been convinced enough yet about using scouts so I'll leave them out for now.

 

Thanks for all of the detailed replies.

 

Cheers

 

ChainsawDR

[Coverfire]

Actually I have never thought about using Bolter scouts before, but I like the idea of 10 scouts with Bolters

deploying 18" from a squad, moving up and rapid firing low toughness hordes.

 

Against Power Armour, the could deploy on an objective and take pot shots at anything within 24". And you can

move to reinforce the unit while they move to destroy it.

[Vlk]

Thanks for all of the detailed replies.

 

Cheers

 

ChainsawDR

 

 

I read: "Thanks for all of the detailed reptiles."

 

I need an ale.

[Demonslayer]

Thanks for all of the detailed replies.

 

Cheers

 

ChainsawDR

 

 

I read: "Thanks for all of the detailed reptiles."

 

I need an ale.

 

So do I, took me 3 reads of your post just to realize what the difference was

[NealSmith]

A spearhead type deployment is probably one of the best times to consider deploying the scouts on table. Especially if you have loads of terrain.

 

I've played 4-5 games with scouts and have deployed on table twice now. Once was during a spearhead type game.

 

It really does depend on the scenario and opponent. I definitely give it a "good think" before I decide on BEL deployment.

[old git]

Actually OBEL gives a 1 in 6 chance of not coming on where you want. You might want to come on on one of the flanks.

[Stormshrug]

Actually OBEL gives a 1 in 6 chance of not coming on where you want. You might want to come on on one of the flanks.

 

I was ballparking.

 

I think 1/6 might be too low, though. Bear with me, and then correct me if I'm wrong:

 

 

2/3rds (0.66) of the time, you come in where you want.

 

On top of that, one quarter of the time, you get the edge you wanted anyway (1/3rd*1/4th) (.33*.25).

 

.66+(.33*.25) = .7425

 

So, it looks like ~3/4ths (~.75) of the time, you get the edge you want, and ~1/4th (~.25), you don't.

 

Of course, in reality, it's slightly more complicated than that, since you're far more likely to want a flank than your own deployment edge (although you also lose your opponent's deployment edge when you roll a flank...).

 

 

But yeah, it looks like 25% of the time, you end up with a table edge other than the table edge you would have chosen, had you had the choice.

 

 

-Stormshrug

[WG Vrox]

Sniper scouts are ok, but keep in mind that they are a 18 point investment and no camo cloak to give them extra longevity. I find that the more I run the better my results 10 scouts 9 snipers 1 ML will net you about 2 out of 3 hits for a total 6.5 hits giving you your 1 in 6 chance to roll a rending result and 2 other hits that can be saved on a normal save, the missle is a bit of a side statistic but can be thrown in for a total average of 1.5 no save hits and 2 saved hits against the average troop. With this number you can count on forcing a go to ground leadership roll.

 

OK all that for 187 points.

 

Now for 170 you get 6 Long Fangs, 3 missles and 2 Las cannon shots with 3.5 hit average and 3 wound no save average against the average troop, you also have the option to take out AV13 armor with a good chance of a damage result.

 

I would also have to suggest the Long Fangs over the sniper scouts unless you are looking for a pure shooty army and all your heavy slots are filled or you know who you will be facing such as nids or high toughness targets.

 

Vrox

[Hfran Morkai]

Depends on the opponent, I kit the Scouts I use in small games for tank-hunting but against say Nids using BEL is going to have limited uses and tend to just use them to tie up a horde for a turn.

 

Ah, the problems with general lists.

 

In Apocalypse games I'll be fielding like 30 of the guys and some will be more shooting orientated with say Sniper Rifles

[Grey Mage]

Sometimes Ill deploy them up close with their meltas locked and ready to bust something up... but usually Ill Obel.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

the question that now comes to mind is why are people comparing whether its better to have long fangs or sniper scouts when the obvious answer is both.

[ChainsawDR]

I think I'll leave the scouts at home for now - thanks for all the reptiles :)

 

Cheers for the mathhammer too... it makes me love Long Fangs even more.