Redo Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I was daydreaming today, looking at tanks and comparing the Vindi to the Baal Pred. The Vindi model is so much thicker, squat and with that seige shield menacing. Does anyone think that the Vindi deserves better armour or it is just me. In my mind it makes sense. Afterall if a tank is designed for Close Supoort and/or siege operations it usually has better armour, just look at the Imperial Leman Russ. Some models (those designed for more aggressive operations) have AV11 rear and in the last codex the Demonisher had better side armour. Of course they now have the same but I still think that the Vindi should have a AV12 on the side, AV11 on the rear and AV14 up front. Anyway just musing, what do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel of justice Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I agree, i think the siege shield should add 1 armor to where its mounted but i think its keeping in with all predators are the same armour value across the imperium idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2437500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarcos Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Although I admint that I would love to have such characteristics in my 2 Vindicators, I believe that it really would unbalance thinks and remove some tactical challenges and not make a big deal of difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2437513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 But what if you run you vindi without siege shield? Does it seem fair to be able to upgrade your front armour to 14 for a mere 10pts? If it can be done for vindi, why not all rhino variants? As for it looking more sturdy and squat- its a rhino hull. Its exactly the same size n shape as a rhino, and a pred, but with less 'clutter' around it like turret and sponsons... I would happily take side armour 12 ahead of front av14 though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2437520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 But what if you run you vindi without siege shield? Does it seem fair to be able to upgrade your front armour to 14 for a mere 10pts? If it can be done for vindi, why not all rhino variants? As for it looking more sturdy and squat- its a rhino hull. Its exactly the same size n shape as a rhino, and a pred, but with less 'clutter' around it like turret and sponsons... I would happily take side armour 12 ahead of front av14 though. To be fair I was not thinking about points costs...just looks. If it ever happened, year the vindi would have to be re-pointed. It should be noted that a siege shield is not an open for other rhino variants. I think the shield could make it difficult to for gunners to target other tanks. Anyway don't you think that with that additional chunky side armour that the vindi looks like it should have more? Indeed the other variants look virtually all the same and have AV11, yet look again and you will see that the vindi has additionally side, top and even front armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2437527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarcos Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 What coud be...in order to be a bit more WYSIWYG is that Vindies have a default Extra Armour for intance...then it would reflect mini with rules...just my thoughts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2437547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Giving a Vindicator armor 14-12-11 would be too good. The cost would have to go up to 180ish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2437634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorider2 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Giving a Vindicator armor 14-12-11 would be too good. The cost would have to go up to 180ish. Yes, which would be silly for one weapon. I feel ours is already to expensive and would really rather have the SM variant. Guard stuff that expensive and well armorer has several weapons. However, as mentioned, it is true the Vindi HAS extra armor so it does make sense to have something. 150 points with venerable, regular speed, and extra armor doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2437816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I had the same thoughts when building my 1st Vindicator a few months ago. What is defined as a siege shield is technically a dozer blade and has nothing to do with a siege!?! It allows us to reroll Difficult Terrain tests, same as dozer blades, which are really nothing more than bush guards. That's a BIG chunk of plasteel that doesn't add a single point of AV. BOOOOO! My vote: Siege Shield adds +1 FAV and is a 15-point ($11 for GW :)) option for all Rhino variants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2439433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Yeh, cos FAST vehicles with AV13 which fire Large Blast S10 AP2 Ordnance rounds aren't quite good enough yet.... HA! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2439455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 ^ not quite. Considering the description of the vehicle always seems to mention protection from infantry firing down from windows I'd expect side armor 12 or something that at least gives that otherwise worthless bit of tech fluff a purpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2439581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droofus Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 ^ not quite. Considering the description of the vehicle always seems to mention protection from infantry firing down from windows I'd expect side armor 12 or something that at least gives that otherwise worthless bit of tech fluff a purpose. It IS odd that the siege tank has the exact same side and rear armors as the MBT. My preference would be to increase the points by 10 (or thereabouts) and increase the REAR armor to 11, stealing a page from the IG demolisher and variants. After all the demolisher is the closest equivleant to the vindie. Obviously this should apply to all vindies, not just ours. Or maybe it should apply to all vindies EXCEPT ours but we get a points drop. Perhaps the BA had to sacrifice some of the close range protection on the tank to make it fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2439801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 If your going to advocate Vindicators getting extra armour from the siege shield I guess I'll advocate siege shields removing the fast part on the BA vindicators since all the extra mass slows it down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2439812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 If your going to advocate Vindicators getting extra armour from the siege shield I guess I'll advocate siege shields removing the fast part on the BA vindicators since all the extra mass slows it down. I had that in my original reply but deleted it for fear of heretical branding!!! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2439846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I'm all for Vindicators losing fast, I'm an EPIC player at heart and Vindicators have almost always been significantly* slower than the other Rhino variants in EPIC. * speed of 20cm for Vindicator vs 30cm for Predator/Whirlwind Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2440079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteanSun Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Sorry, but no. I think the Vindicator is right were it should be. It is based off of the RH1N0 STC, only will better front armor (which is adequately represented in the kit, but not on the SM Predator kit). A siege shield gives the Vindicator an effective means of crashing through fortification. I think a siege shield does exactly what it should. I don't want to come across as cynical, but as a die hard marine player I hear a lot of Marine players complain about how marines should be better. I just cannot understand how some one can think that. Marines have a hard time being balanced, and the reason that so many young people play marines is that they are very forgiving. Just my 2 thoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2440202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I never understood why people thought the siege shield, which is simply a beefed up dozer blade that is tall enough to push the huge walls of rubble away from the tank, accounted for the vehicle having AV13 in the front. It's silly. The predator has AV13 and has no shield leading me to believe that since both the pred and vindy are both heavier tanks than the rhino the armor is on the hull and not some shield. That irrelavent point aside as far as representing the vindy chugging along maybe it could have a rule similar to the LRBT lumbering behemoth rule. Of course, ours would be slightly faster than those vanilla boys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204411-thoughts-on-the-vindicator/#findComment-2440216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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