How to counter Arjac?

[vahouth]

This guy is just sick B)

I was wondering what other BAs use to counter Arjac.

I'm starting to think that maybe Lemartes Inc could do the trick.

He cannot be targeted (just like Arjac) and even if he remains alone, Arjac gets no rerolls since Lemmy is no IC.

But then again, rage gets in the way... :devil:

Any thoughts?

[Hellios]

This guy is just sick :yuck:

I was wondering what other BAs use to counter Arjac.

I'm starting to think that maybe Lemartes Inc could do the trick.

He cannot be targeted (just like Arjac) and even if he remains alone, Arjac gets no rerolls since Lemmy is no IC.

But then again, rage gets in the way... ^_^

Any thoughts?

 

Errrm What is Arjac hiding in? also Vindicator... it kills what he is hiding in and... it might kill him... either way he is easier to deal with once his buddies are dead.

[vahouth]

This guy is just sick :yuck:

I was wondering what other BAs use to counter Arjac.

I'm starting to think that maybe Lemartes Inc could do the trick.

He cannot be targeted (just like Arjac) and even if he remains alone, Arjac gets no rerolls since Lemmy is no IC.

But then again, rage gets in the way... ^_^

Any thoughts?

 

Errrm What is Arjac hiding in? also Vindicator... it kills what he is hiding in and... it might kill him... either way he is easier to deal with once his buddies are dead.

 

Most of the time he is hiding in a squad of wolfguards and into a LRC.

[angel of justice]

Thats a very expensive unit arjac is something like 170 points, just throw an equal amount of assault marines at him he only has 2 wounds.

[Hellios]

Thats a very expensive unit arjac is something like 170 points, just throw an equal amount of assault marines at him he only has 2 wounds.

 

Arjac comes to crush the lord of DEATH RAWRRRR!!!

 

So yer if you can pop the crusader early... they are no slow and you have a bit of breathing space to do whatever... hit them with fire on the way so there are less (or non) of them when they get to you and then just mob them. Consider that you have around 600pts to deal with this unit... if the GHs are 10 man strong.

[Morticon]

There are a few ways - none of them overly easy.

 

The first is by shooting. However, most smart wolf players will have him in a Raider of some variant.

Another way, though not as reliable is the "fear" power our libbies have access to.

 

 

In combat, you have some options available to you.

 

Firstly, Furiosos with talons. They will eat through his squad, and if you're lucky, him too. Even if the furioso dies, hes likely to be on his own at the end of it.

 

Secondly, DC with chaplain. Point for point, you're looking at a decent DC with a Chaplain and some specials- meaning you have a good chance of wiping him out before the damage return.

 

Thirdly, if you hit him with a regular tac, or assault squad (which you should really be doing) you can greatly minimise damage by feeding arjac a priest.

(Depending on how early it is in the game, and how much fighting will happen after, as well as how many priests your have in your army). By throwing a 1wound, 50/65 pnt priest at arjac it means that even when he gets his 5 attacks that hit on 3s and wound on 2s, hes got to put them all into the IC if he can. This saves your entire squad getting toasted. Same theory goes for the DC with Chaplain.

[Brother_Dan'l]

First time I ran into Arjac I was horrified. He seemed ridiculous. But I learned.

 

The easiest was hitting him with Mephiston at the same time as an RAS with Priest attacked. After Mephiston evaporated the Wolf Guard, Arjac found out why 2 wounds isn't nearly enough when you strike at I1. Even a 2+ save can't protect you from 20 some odd S5/I5 attacks. It was actually the only time I've used Mephiston. Damned glad I brought him.

[Leonaides]

but could be risky... I'd go with a couple of mm speeders to stop his ride early, keeping him away from me till i choose. Then a vindi to pie-plate the squad when it gets out. Should leave about 350pts for assault squad and priest with melta guns, and pw on serg and priest. Should be more than sufficient to drop him. With points to spare!

[Requiem of the Wolf]

And now we see the second use of Arjac...he makes for a wonderful distraction...a "Look at me,focus on the big scary thing and ignore the rest of the army thats the real danger"

 

Rather like Mephiston actually.

[SamaNagol]

Beat his unit in combat and then make him run away.

[SnorriSnorrison]

And now we see the second use of Arjac...he makes for a wonderful distraction...a "Look at me,focus on the big scary thing and ignore the rest of the army thats the real danger"

 

Rather like Mephiston actually.

 

Yes, that is a role both of them fit into perfectly. But Mephiston is faster due to Wings and Fleet and therefore does not need an expensive ride. On the other hand, he is expensive enough...

 

 

Snorri

[Morticon]

And now we see the second use of Arjac...he makes for a wonderful distraction...a "Look at me,focus on the big scary thing and ignore the rest of the army thats the real danger"

 

Rather like Mephiston actually.

 

Depends what list level you play at.

 

I play 1650 at the moment- so that 600 point squad he encompasses IS the real danger. Mephiston is 250 points, Arjac needs a squad and a delivery system which changes it up a bit.

[Korraz]

There are two standard tactics, to counter basically EVERYTHING, up to a tactical nuke.

 

*)Hurr Durr, use Mephiston.

*)Hurr Durr, use Furioso with [insert fitting choice here]

 

So...

*)Hurr Durr, use Mephiston

or

*)Hurr Durr, use Furioso with Blood Talons.

 

In both cases, they throw so many wounds at the squad, that he will have to apply some at Arjac. In the entirely impossible case, that Fiston or the Fistuoso fails, Arjac will most likely be alone. Alone, without a ride. Just bolter him to death, so Mephiston can proceed to fist his face.

[MylesTheTroll]

The one problem with using Mephiston to counter Arjac is the fact that Wolves don't need Arjac leading the force to takedown Mephiston. Wolves could just as easily bait you to come for his Arjac unit while hitting Mephiston with plasma in the meantime, which Wolves will more than likely have a lot of in their Grey Hunters. Though, I find a Lone Wolf can be just as effective, and cheaper, vs Mephiston than an Arjac unit. Would pretty much use the same tactics as Angels player would use to keep Mephiston from being targeted prematurely, and the Lone Wolf would have to take two Fenrisian Wolves with him for meat shields.

 

Yes, both are traps, but what characters aren't, really? The difference is that Mephiston can be singled out with much ease while he is trying to engage an enemy while the Wolves can just move around him. "But Troll!, he has Wings to get him across the board faster!" Which would mean he is Jump Infantry, right? Tempest Wrath if that is the case, which going against Angels, you'll know Wolves will have, or Murderous Hurricane to make him go slower than normal infantry. Wolves definitely have the tools to make a game go easier for them against the Angels, but don't interpret that as the Wolves will easily win vs Angels, because that is very untrue.

 

Regardless, what looks good in theory/on paper may not apply so well in the heat of battle when all the variables are on the table, and you can't realisitcally have a counter for everything all the time. That goes for both sides.

[Deus_Sanguinius]

Which would mean he is Jump Infantry, right?

Well, if I remember right with using Wings Mephiston moves like Jump Infantry but for any other purposes he remains a normal Infantry Model. So Mephiston should be no Jump Infantry.

[MylesTheTroll]

Which would mean he is Jump Infantry, right?

Well, if I remember right with using Wings Mephiston moves like Jump Infantry but for any other purposes he remains a normal Infantry Model. So Mephiston should be no Jump Infantry.

 

I see. There is still Murderous Hurricane which is useful vs Termies. And I know that I plan on making ample use of this power from inside a Rhino in my matches with SODhero.

[coteaz40001]

I knocked out an LRC with Dante and a squad of Sang. Guard

Then had Dante's squad and another squad of guard charge a 6 man wolfguard w/ Arjack and Grimnar

Dante killed The Great Wolf in one go. (7 attacks is AWESOME!!!!!)

Then The Squads proceeded to tear the guard apart.

None Of the Wolves Even Got to swing.

[Godhead]

First time I ran into Arjac I was horrified. He seemed ridiculous. But I learned.

 

The easiest was hitting him with Mephiston at the same time as an RAS with Priest attacked. After Mephiston evaporated the Wolf Guard, Arjac found out why 2 wounds isn't nearly enough when you strike at I1. Even a 2+ save can't protect you from 20 some odd S5/I5 attacks. It was actually the only time I've used Mephiston. Damned glad I brought him.

 

 

Unless Arjac is with GH's that popped their wolf standard ;)

[Grey Mage]

First time I ran into Arjac I was horrified. He seemed ridiculous. But I learned.

 

The easiest was hitting him with Mephiston at the same time as an RAS with Priest attacked. After Mephiston evaporated the Wolf Guard, Arjac found out why 2 wounds isn't nearly enough when you strike at I1. Even a 2+ save can't protect you from 20 some odd S5/I5 attacks. It was actually the only time I've used Mephiston. Damned glad I brought him.

 

 

Unless Arjac is with GH's that popped their wolf standard :P

Yep, and that is in fact where he truely shines in my opinion- drop podding in with 8 pissed off grey hunters. Throw out his TH attack, three shots with plasma and a dozen bolter rounds, and force your opponent to either assault or be assaulted right from the start.

 

I do however second the idea that a Vindicator will evaporate most of the squads hes in, and even if he crushes the vindicator the next turn hes now quite vulnerable to enemy massed fire shooting- so just hit him with a squads bolters after all his friends are dead and move on.

 

Enjoy your 190pt kill.

[MylesTheTroll]

First time I ran into Arjac I was horrified. He seemed ridiculous. But I learned.

 

The easiest was hitting him with Mephiston at the same time as an RAS with Priest attacked. After Mephiston evaporated the Wolf Guard, Arjac found out why 2 wounds isn't nearly enough when you strike at I1. Even a 2+ save can't protect you from 20 some odd S5/I5 attacks. It was actually the only time I've used Mephiston. Damned glad I brought him.

 

 

Unless Arjac is with GH's that popped their wolf standard :P

Yep, and that is in fact where he truely shines in my opinion- drop podding in with 8 pissed off grey hunters. Throw out his TH attack, three shots with plasma and a dozen bolter rounds, and force your opponent to either assault or be assaulted right from the start.

 

I do however second the idea that a Vindicator will evaporate most of the squads hes in, and even if he crushes the vindicator the next turn hes now quite vulnerable to enemy massed fire shooting- so just hit him with a squads bolters after all his friends are dead and move on.

 

Enjoy your 190pt kill.

 

Using the Thunder Hammer as a shooting attack doesn't specifically say that it gives the special effect that it uses in close combat. Be prepared for a lot of arguments against it. That's what I've seen in forums. Many debates against it mainly saying that close combat effects don't confer to shooting unless specifically stated. Though, if it says that the weapon is a thunder hammer, then it should follow all its rules whether good or bad. Though I'd be for it even if I wasn't a Space Wolves player.

[Grey Mage]

*blinks* It uses the ranged profile given, itd would have been cool to get the TH benefit from it, but it doesnt.... did I somehow imply it did? If so I apologize.

[MylesTheTroll]

*blinks* It uses the ranged profile given, itd would have been cool to get the TH benefit from it, but it doesnt.... did I somehow imply it did? If so I apologize.

 

Yep, and that is in fact where he truely shines in my opinion- drop podding in with 8 pissed off grey hunters. Throw out his TH attack, three shots with plasma and a dozen bolter rounds, and force your opponent to either assault or be assaulted right from the start.

 

 

This. At least it's what it seemed to imply by waiting for your opponent to assault you instead of assaulting them. Thogh, upon a closer look, I am wrong. I am new to SMs, and forget that they use rapid fire weapons which would be the reason as to why you'd wait for them to charge.

 

Apologies for the confusion.

[Grey Mage]

Well, theres also the part where we get counter-attack, wich is useful when being assaulted...

 

In fact, the only real reason to assault is to deny the enemy an assault bonus, such as furious charge. Since you cant do it out of a DP anyways, might as well hit them as hard as you can I say.

[Godhead]

Plus arjac in a DP Tossing out a hammer against a transport/armored unit/heavy infantry could be devastating, and the fact that he hits on a 2 when he throws that things... pure win.

 

On a side note. During the 3rd scenario of the 'Ard Boyz finals, I threw Arjac's squad of GHs at 20 (yes I said 20..2 full squads) of terminators. His squad evaporated, but not before thinning them down a bit, leaving Arjac alone who became stubborn and survived to take out 3 more before he died. It was epic. He lasted long enough to move my other LR away from the angry chain fists and get my TWC in combat with them to wipe them out.

[Nuntius]

Purely Curiosity, but why are there so many space wolves players on here arguing over how to best use Arjac when the question directed at Blood Angels players was how to beat him? Don't you guys have your own forum somewhere? How about some input as to how your Arjac squad got smashed at 'Ard Boys. That would really help solve the OP's problem.