large numbers advantage?

[Warp space]

Ok Chaos S/M's have the ability to take large numbers in each squad (5-20). Does any one ever use this??? and why do you take more than 10 marines in any one squad??? I have been playing Chaos for a while and never buy more than a 10 man squad. Yet I find myself wondering does anyone ever take advantage of this. What are your thougths of useing this advantage??? I would like the idea better if each squad said somthing like take anouther special weapon for every 5 S/M's, but it don't.

[Rain]

Some people do indeed do this, but for no reason better than because they can. You generally want to cap your squads at 10 so that they can fit in Rhinos, and because it allows you to take more special weapons per points spent on bodies.

[Hellios]

The only advantage I can really see is if you are playing KP and so combine two squads of 10 into 1 big squad to basically reduce the number of KP's you would give away... although technically your list should be up before you know what mission you aree playing and objectives occur more often...

[Zeller]

In friendly games I typically take 2 15-man squads with IoCG, 2 specials, and a champ with plasma pistol. I like them for a few reasons. One, they are a big squad so at first it's a bit intimidating to see all that 3+ save. Two, nobody in my gaming group plays IG so ap3 templates are never present. In fact, I tend to use the most templates out of my group. Three, it's a lot of shooting and chopping available from one squad.

 

Unfortunately it sucks getting all 15 men tied down in stupid assaults that I had no desire to fight in since it takes all those guns and makes them uselss. It is also a pain because I can't exactly hide the entire squad and when moving through cities there is inevitably one marine that decides his only path is through difficult terrain. Also, since the huge squad is exposed it makes SW psychic powers target happy, pathfinder railguns very useful, and other such things. I would go full mechanized but I'd need more rhinos and I currently don't have enough space to store them anyway.

 

So, in the style of the WB from the three novels they're in I will continue to use infantry hordes in friendly games. It was the intention when I built the army.

[GeoWolf]

I like 1k sons in apoc and planet strike.

 

20 1k sons is just a ridiculous amount of PA to remove, given the invul save. If you manage to combine them with the chaos alter strategic asset, then they don't go anywhere. I played a big game at a GW where the manager ruled that multiple alters stacked effects, giving them a 2++ save.

 

By the gods was that great, they took fire all game, sitting on the Vital Obj, and lost 3 models over 6 turns! This included fire from two thunderfire cannons, a leman russ squadron, an uncounted amount of gaurdsmen, several termies that DS next to them, and to top it all off, the manager gave them a valkarie on the last turn to attempt to move them off! To no avail!

 

Granted, the only reason I fielded them that way was because I forgot the Aspiring Sorc for the second unit, so I borrowed another Son from the store and mashed them together. But I've done it several times since, and they are great. CC is still a challenge but with that many bodies either they stay put waiting for help or win by attrition. No other unit really shines like them in large groups though, at least not for me...

[lord gunthar]

Two, nobody in my gaming group plays IG so ap3 templates are never present. In fact, I tend to use the most templates out of my group.

Really ??

Out of the ~10 players who play 40k regularly at my club, 4 use guard, 1 of them has a fully mech army ( 8 chimeras ) + 3 basilisks and 3 leman russ' .

Thankfully I run a fully mech list with my chaos too.

[Skyzerker]

I can see the merit of camping a 20 man squad of CSMs on an objective just for the simple fact that it will take forever to get rid of them all. Add in the IoN or IoT and they'll be there even longer.

[Rain]

I can see the merit of camping a 20 man squad of CSMs on an objective just for the simple fact that it will take forever to get rid of them all. Add in the IoN or IoT and they'll be there even longer.

 

Not really. Ever since every wound you lose combat by imposes a -1 to your LD check, combats have become much more decisive and if they have an icon other than IoCG they get no reroll. Any hard hitting CC unit stands a good chance of wiping that out in 1 assault, just like it would a 10 man squad.

[Ashe Darke]

In friendly games I typically take 2 15-man squads with IoCG, 2 specials, and a champ with plasma pistol. I like them for a few reasons. One, they are a big squad so at first it's a bit intimidating to see all that 3+ save. Two, nobody in my gaming group plays IG so ap3 templates are never present. In fact, I tend to use the most templates out of my group. Three, it's a lot of shooting and chopping available from one squad..

I'd be more concerned about Guard armies with Psyker Battle Squads. A big unit like that is a juicy target for Weaken Resolve. Admittedly the amount of casualties needed to cause a morale test is more, 4, but it's not impossible to kill 4 guys from one round of shooting, and once that happens they're as good as running. They could even try something ballsy like charging them to wipe them out. At least 225pts gone in one go, nasty.

[Skyzerker]

I can see the merit of camping a 20 man squad of CSMs on an objective just for the simple fact that it will take forever to get rid of them all. Add in the IoN or IoT and they'll be there even longer.

 

Not really. Ever since every wound you lose combat by imposes a -1 to your LD check, combats have become much more decisive and if they have an icon other than IoCG they get no reroll. Any hard hitting CC unit stands a good chance of wiping that out in 1 assault, just like it would a 10 man squad.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of surviving tons of shooting, but I see your point about getting whooped in an assault. Then again, two 10-man squads would do the exact same thing, but with more special and heavy weaponry, along with their respective rhinos.

[Madcap]

For our 40k in 40 Min games (500 pts.), I used a ten-man squad and a thirteen-man squad of CSM with IOCG and usual specials/fist. My Space Wolves opponent had a couple blood claw squads, a runepriest, and some long fangs, along with two razorbacks. That 13-man squad was very difficult to get rid of, and it kept on making its Ld tests. Meanwhile I drove the Longfangs off the board, killed most of the other infantry, and blew up a razorback. I think a large squad of marines can make for good objective-takers or just being a general nuisance. Fifteen of CSM with IOCG would be tough enough. Fifteen of any cult marine would be scary. Thousand Sons come to mind, as they don't have specials, are fearless, and have a 4+ invulnerable save. It would be expensive, but the fear factor alone might be worth it.

[David the Despoiler]

Thousand Sons, in my opinions, are the ones who lose the least from taking large numbers and have the most to gain. Expensive sorcerer, only one per a higher number of bodies. They have no special weapons they're missing out on.

[Ace of Gods]

my friend takes 2 squads of plague marines. they each have a melta gun in them and either a flamer or a plasma gun. i think the plasma mostly. and they are i nsquads of 15-17. they usually go up to some kind of objective , hide in cover, and hold it really well. and if its a kill point game, its such a large squad, they are hard to kill. especially being the fact they are plague marines. works for him alot.

[Muskie]

I've run 20 man Plaguemarine squads, it is a bit much. It takes a long time for the squad to get through difficult terrain as it is so big so they get strung out some... It can work for objective sitting, but too often you have to go someplace and do something. I've got four plasma guns painted up to do Havoc squads bigger than 10, but honestly I'd rather have another scoring unit in most cases or something Elite.

 

Cheers,

[Whit]

I have my Word Bearers squads at 12 man strength, mostly for fluff's sake. I read somewhere that they organize in squads of 12, so in my army, they do. It doesn't really make much differance on a strategic level, but I like to think that a few extra marines always come in handy.

[the jeske]

how is not being able to ride in rhinos not a "differance on a strategic level" ?

[Whit]

Well, to be fair, I've only played one or two fairly small games on a small table, so I lack any real say on the matter.