Stuck and lost

[Wolfeather]

I have not been playing that long, and when I started looking at the game, someone that I knew for a while talked me into playing Sisters of Battle. I like the way the models look, I enjoy painting them and my husband like putting them together. We altered an Exorcist, mainly so that the rockets didn't come out of the pipes...

 

Then, after I had a hand full, and two tanks painted we started learning how to play the game..

 

Now my problem started then, I didn't understand most of the army and for the life of me, I can't seem to do much right with them! (Which is when I learned that my friend talked me into sisters of battle, and he had never won a game with them either.)

 

I am not sure how it works with the DH, if you can, for the most part, take what you want? Is that something you should do? Would it help or hinder?

 

Or should I just play something else.

[fuzbuckle]

Welcome to the boards!!!

 

Don't get too discouraged. Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters are both old codices and tend to have a bigger learning curve when just starting out. If you can post a little more about the types of models you have, what your play style is, what armies you've faced and an idea of what in those armies gave you difficulties (i.e. vehicles, monsterous creatures, assault units, etc...) that would be helpful. There are a lot of great Sisters players on these boards and they can give you expert advice on how to win as long a you give a bit more detail.

 

As far as switching to DH's it too is a very challenging codex so I wouldn't jump ship just yet, especially if you really like the modeling aspect of sisters.

 

So give a bit more detail and I'm sure we can have you winning some games in no time, for the Emperor is with us.

[Wolfeather]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

 

Alrighty, I am going to break this down the best I can, (like they do on games workshop, it just helps me keep things going as far as what I have..)

 

HQ

Celestine

Witch Hunter Inquisitor Lord & Retinue (I made my own lord and have a large amount of things for her retinue..)

Canoness

Imperial Missionary Jacobus

 

Elites

Sisters Repentia (9) & Mistress

Callidus Assassin

Vindicare Assassin

 

Troops

Sisters of Battle Squad

Normal Bolter Girls (12)

Sister Superiors (2)

Heavy Bolter (1)

Heavy Flamer (1)

Multi Melta (1)

Storm Bolter (1)

Flamer (1)

Melta Gun (1)

Imagifer (1)

Priest (1)

 

Imperial Stormtroopers (They are currently on order so I don't really have them yet)

 

Fast Attack

Sisters of Battle Seraphim Squad

Battle Seraphim (3)

Seraphim Superior (1)

Hand Flamer Sister (1)

 

Heavy Support

Sisters of Battle Exorcist (1)

Sisters of Battle Immolator (1)

Witch Hunters Penitent Engine (1)

 

I know that its really basic, I didn't have a lot of money and wasn't sure really what to do.. (that and if I could have had them all in helmets I would have been a little happier)

[Warhorse47]

As a Space Wolf player, I can sympathize with a loooooong wait for a new codex, and playing with an out of date one for a long time. Stay with the Sisters, you like the fluff and the minis, and those are the things that make the game fun. You will get lots of help and good advice here, so just keep playing and build your army using the basics and good sense so when the new codex comes out, it is an easy transition.

[Wolfeather]

I do enjoy the models (the ones with helmets anyways, if I could find someone willing to trade, of man would I...)

 

Speaking of which, does anyone know where I could just buy more helmets.. Convert the models that I have to the helmets...

[GodwynDi]

You are, unfortunately, running into a problem most SoB players face. Most of our coolest models, like the penitent engine and the repentia, are only effective in certain ways, as opposed to many units that are just always effective. And a key facet of our army is the use of faith points, which takes some practice as well. I lost an unknown number of games in a row until I learned everything proper like. But I do not regret the time spent doing so. There are some good tactics articles here on the boards.

 

As for helmets, that should hopefully be easy if we actually do get plastic models sometime soon, as most sprues come with such options. Other than that, only real option is to cut them from the models, which is kinda pointless usually as you can just use the model its already attached to :P

 

HQ: Celestine and canoness are both quite effective. Canoness requires some careful equipment choosing, but most important is usually the 2+ armor save.

I am not as expert at Inquisitor retinue building as many, so I will leave that to others, but an inquisitor is also a firm choice on the battlefield.

 

Elites: Callidus and Vindicare are my two favorite assassins, but they take experience to use well, because the key for both of them is target priority, which is as much knowing your opponents army, and what it can do, and what you need to negate, as it is knowing your own.

 

The vindicare excels at single target selection, such as squad leaders with enhanced gear, and removing them from the fight. Even when they are already engaged in combat, which is help that sisters and storm troopers can often use.

 

The callidus is a bit more complex, but there are excellent tactics articles for assassins on these forums. . .somewhere but I forget :lol: Stickied at the top of this board, how could I forget - Edit

 

Troops: Both sisters and storm troopers are decent choices. I prefer fielding more sisters myself for the additional faith. A standard squad usually has 3 variations, mostly on preference. Heavy flamer and flamer, Heavy flamer and melta, or 2 meltas. Usually 2 meltas and a Chimera transport for the storm troopers and then tank hunting, Mmmm.

 

FA: Seraphim are a favorite unit of many. I personally do not field them that much. The preferred squad size is usually around 7-8 as that will usually allow them to use any act of faith since they get an extra die. They are mobile and potentially devastating, but again they require careful usage of AoF. Giving them either 2X2 hand flamers or 2X2 inferno pistols only alters their use slightly.

 

HS: Exorcist. Pretty much can not go wrong with this vehicle. As paraphrased from someone's signature here "Good targets for the Exorcist, Everything."

Penitent engines are fragile on their own, which is why they are usually fielded as a squadron. 1 is fragile, but potentially good if it gets close, 3 are usually destructive and almost certain to make it into combat.

 

My personal choice for the immolator is to use it as a transport for a retributor squad :lol:. But if you have the HS spot free, no reason not to take one. They are decent vehicles for their price, and the move 12" and flame often catches people by surprise.

 

Part of the problem is often that our army is lesser played, so there is rarely someone about to teach you. Fortunately you came across these boards which have excellent tactics articles, and pretty good support. But something you will just have to get a feel for as you play more games, such as when to use which AoF.

 

And welcome to the B&C.

[Wolfeather]

Thanks so much for explaining some of that.. I am one of three people that play Sisters where I am from, and that isn't saying much since I normally just play against Space Marines.

 

Now with the different squads, the Celestian, Dominion and Retributor, do you think having all three would really be worth doing? (Because, Holey COW is that a ton of models!)

 

Running three Engines, is that worth it? I was goofing around with one, and it seems that they might be good at taking down troops...

 

What do we really have to deal with tanks? Just the grenades?

 

I normally play against black templars (which is now turning into some space wolves), ultra marines, and chaos marines.. Maybe some orks if my husband and I ever get to hang out with that guy again.. Normally I like to play things that have a long life span, I have bad luck and not a ton of experience playing war games like this.

 

Almost forgot (sorry)

 

Thanks for the welcome!

[templargdt]

Welcome to the bolter and chainsword!

 

Sisters is an old codex, but still competitive IMHO. I saw a SOB player at this year and last year's 'Ard Boyz semifinals. The basic SOB squad is good for its points. Seraphim and Exorcists are both exellent units. I would not recommend Dominions or Retributors (the weapons are too expensive.) I would only use Celestians to be a retinue for my Cannoness or if I had already maxed out 6 SOB squads and still had more points.

 

I've never seen Pentitent engines used, but I think 3 in a squad backed up by a pair of Exorcists would be an excellent way to use your heavy support slots.

 

Sisters definitely have ways to kill tanks; Meltaguns, Eviscerators, Meltabombs on Seraphim, etc. The Exorcist will take care of tanks quite quickly.

[Vash113]

Sisters are definitely still competitive, the last Tournament I played it was the Sisters who did more damage to my Space Wolves than anyone else and that included Tau, Imperial Guard and double-lash Chaos Marines.

 

With an older Codex and not a ton of options I'd say your best bet is to stick with the tried and true, the bread and butter and those seem to be your bog standard Sisters Squad, they are cheap for what you get (bolter and power armor) and can come in large squads and boy can you put a lot of flamers in there, Exorcists are great for pummeling apart armor, Seraphim make great hit and run units and with Faith Points you have a good deal of versatility and tactical flexibility built in if you use it right.

 

It hurts having a Dominion Squad whose Sister Superior has a Brazier unleash 5 flamers on a unit with Divine Guidance. AP 1 Flamer wounds are not at all fun, I lost an entire 16 man Blood Claw unit in a single round of shooting to that...

 

Focus on your strengths, get the Faith Points down and the Sisters can pack a lot of punch and unlike other Power Armored armies can have the numbers to back up that offensive capability with durability.

 

Also don't forget that you shouldn't expect to win a lot when just starting out, the game does have a significant learning curve, especially for the older Codexies, just keep with it and learn from every game, get to know your army and your opponents and you will start to hold your own before long. We all have to start somewhere. :no:

[the jeske]

this is how a working sob list looks like

 

2x Canones both jump pack , both with eviscerators [for str 8 instant death with faith] , both with books

 

2-3x exorcists or 1-2xexorcists and then one 6-8 retributor squads with hvy bolters with an elite Inq staying near

3x rhino squads . which means books on superiors and melta/hvy flamer on squads.

as fast 2x5 dual melta pistol or dual melta flamer [flamer if 3x exorcist] .

 

things that are never used . repentia , non DH inq , inq lords, penitant engines , storm troopers [may as well play IG if someone wants those] , arcor flaglants , priests , dominions , celestians [because they force a non jump pack cannones build and she should always fly around to tar pit stuff] .

[Lone Scout]

I quite liked deep striking stormtroopers to grab objectives ? 0-o

And arco flaggies are brutal in cc ... when they don't get shot to bits.

 

I haven't played WH for awhile granted but I found the above units helpful.

[Nidhogg_Rider]

Been a while since i've actually been on here (I recently became sorta interested again due to playing too much DOW2...).

 

Back in the day, Cannoness+Seraphim combo and Exorcists were definitely the game winners for my army. Definitely need them, and in quantity too.

 

Everything else was kind of negotiable. Personally I thought Inquisition units just sucked (and looked crap) so I never took them.

[Obliterator]

At what points level are you playing mostly? I'm currently in a tournament, where we started at 500 points and each month we get to spend 250 points more to finally build up an army of 1750 points. What I noticed is that playing smaller point games (like lots of people play when starting out) is a real struggle for a Witchhunter. At round 1000 points you can start to get competitive builds.

 

I used to play footslogging Sisters, but I find that these days you really need a mechanised army. Footslogging is great and all, but you're shooting yourself in the foot as you're losing the mobility to grab the necessary objectives. Here's what works (and doesn't work) for me:

 

HQ

A souped up jumppack Canoness can really give you an edge, mine's building a rather decent reputation here down at the gaming club, and she's been known to get rid of most things big and small alike. Personally I prefer the blessed weapon as you strike on initiative and reroll a missed attack, but yeah, taking that path means no instant death.

Option nr.2 is keeping your Canoness close to your army by giving her a Celestian retinue and putting her in a Rhino. I'm trying out an Eviscarator Canoness, Eviscarator Priest and 8 Celestians (meltagun/heavy flamer) right now, and so far I've been liking the results. It's a relatively cheap HQ unit, which means you get to take more of the good stuff (for Sisters, this means more basic troops).

An Inquisitor Lord with a psychic hood can be used to counter enemy spellcasting, but I find that those points are better spent elsewhere in your army. Especially since you need to take at least 3 henchmen for him as well.

 

Elites

Ah yes. The Elites section. Lots of nice models and cool rules, but to me, none of them have a real place in a competitive Sisters list. For an Inquisitor, the Lord is way better. Arco-flaggelants are nice but get killed before they can get to do their thing. Repentia look good on paper, but at I1, 2 attacks on the charge and only a 4+ save they will get killed by anything other then an unarmed guardsman before they get the change to strike. Celestians are nice, but IMHO they're most fit as a retinue. The main trouble is that these can't claim objectives, and out of combat they're basically expensive regular Sisters.

Assassins are great, and lethal when used correctly, but you need to spend points on an Inquisitor to get them and they still die pretty fast.

 

Troops

While the Stormtroopers are cheap and can be used as objective-grabbers, I personally don't use them. As a Witchhunter player, you better get used to be 'just' human with toughness 3. This means we are rather squishy, and to counter that, a 3+ armour save is a must. Also, Sisters have bolters, which are also better then the hellguns the Stormtroopers have. And the most important of all: they bring Faith to the table.

I typically run with 10 Sisters in a Rhino. Veterean upgrade to get the Book of St.Lucius, and meltagun and heavy flamer to give them some flexibility. Some people use dedicated weapon layouts, like 2x meltagun or flamer/heavy flamer, but I find the mixed approach works best for me.

 

Fast Attack

All Seraphim, all the time. These make great tank hunters. Take at least 8 (I used to field 2 units with 6 each, but I find that those are too small) and give them 2 Inferno pistols and a veteran with an Eviscarator. Don't make the mistake of thinking that Seraphim are meant to assault the enemy. While you can use them to keep a unit busy in the enemy's turn, and then use hit-and-run to make 'em stand in the open during your turn, they will die fast against most other assault troops.

Dominions are generally not worth it. Their weapons cost way too much, and you need to buy a transport for them (usually not the problem when running a mechanised army :) )

 

Heavy Support

Take at least 2 Exorcists. This is your much needed ranged firepower, and you'll need it to keep the enemy at bay. 3 is better, but depending on your enemy you might want to keep the last HQ slot free for a unit of 8 Retributors with 4 heavy bolters to thin out horde armies.

[Wolfeather]

Thanks for all the replies everyone :)

 

I just haven't really been a contender in the fights it seemed like.. The people that I play with didn't know how to answer any of my questions either.. Make for an interesting learning curve..

 

As for the Inquis, I made my own Inquisitior, than made up many of the units within the squad.. They are starting to look really nice, I should post a picture up here, but the whole squad is not painted just yet.. They are, like many things, a work in progress..

 

I do have a faith point issue, just not understanding it mostly, I have yet to really use that aspect in the game, but I was starting to screw around with them some in Dawn of War.. It really seems like I need to screw around with a little of everything.. I guess the next best thing for me to do is take notes in the next battle and have you guys tell me where I screwed up beyond repair. :)

 

I always liked the idea of the Repentia squad, I actually got them into close combat (my Immolator played body guard parking in front of them, soaking up the damage and dishing out some nice flamer damage on the way), they took out almost all of my husbands terminator squad.

 

Alrighty another silly question, what about Arco-Flagellants? What are those things good for? To be honest I never really thought about them because I don't like the way they look..

 

Is it worth maxing out the squad cap or just having more squads? I liked the idea of having squads of 20 girls instead of just 10s but I wasn't sure if the points being spent into that army is worth it that way..

 

Now, when I bought my first exorcist I was upset by its size, my husband and I had talked about stealing a land raider body and putting the pipes on there to make it look bigger and actually scary on the board.. For almost $60 I had better hope for it being a bigger tank than just an Immolator with some metal bits..

[Wolfeather]

Well since someone replied before I could (heh thank you)..

 

We normally play 1000 to 1500..

 

Thanks for your view on the Arco-Flagellants. I still don't like the models, but if they are not worth it really, less money spent for me.. WooHoo!

[Obliterator]

Alrighty another silly question, what about Arco-Flagellants? What are those things good for? To be honest I never really thought about them because I don't like the way they look..

Arco-flagellants are excellent as a counterassault unit (looking at the other options in the WH codex of course, not looking at the other armies). With all the power weapons, and the D6 attacks, I'm going to give them a serious try once they're painted up. The unfortunate thing is that once they're activated, with some unlucky rolls you'll lose 35-point models without claiming anything in return. Also, since they're footslogging accross the board, and only have a 4+ save means half of them will be dead by the enemy's fire bafore they arrive where they're supposed to be. They would work better against the more assault oriented armies I think, as you can keep them in cover until the enemy reaches your lines. I'd also say: take a full unit, or take none.

 

Is it worth maxing out the squad cap or just having more squads? I liked the idea of having squads of 20 girls instead of just 10s but I wasn't sure if the points being spent into that army is worth it that way..

When you go mechanised, you're effectively capped at 10, so I assume you mean footslogging Sisters. 20 is generally too much to move around. For a footslogging unit, 12-14 is fine. This size makes for Faith tests you'll hardly ever fail. And more units also means more Faith to use. I used to take 3 12-Sister units, and haven't had any bad experiences with them.

 

Now, when I bought my first exorcist I was upset by its size, my husband and I had talked about stealing a land raider body and putting the pipes on there to make it look bigger and actually scary on the board.. For almost $60 I had better hope for it being a bigger tank than just an Immolator with some metal bits..

I know how you feel. IMHO the Exorcist model must be one of the fugliest models out there. I invested in the ForgeWorld variant, and haven't looked back since :). He's still small, but at least he looks like he's supposed to be on the battlefield.

[Wolfeather]

It seems like forge world has some really nice stuff on it for sisters, thanks for the idea!

 

So is that tank more like the whirl wind?

 

What is the Repressor kit? Is that just the dozer blade?

 

So making a mechanised army, is that more or less putting your troops in tanks and unleashing terror?

 

So, looking at my FAQ pdf that I have, it never really answers what you do about fire points, my husband's book says that the Rhino has 2 fire points but the WH book says they only have one. How does that work? Do I use his stats and assume that my girls for what ever reason put a plate over a point or do I just go with his and ignore what my book says?

 

Does anyone here use Inquisitor Lord Karamazov? I think that he looks fruity but then again, I just didn't like his chair or his price range..

[bystrom]

The FAQs never do seem to answer all the questions... You use the rules as written in the book, so your rhinos have one fire point while his have two, that's the way it is having an old codex. There are some things that are worse and some that are better. An option is to have such things house-ruled, as it is you and your friends' game.

[Obliterator]

Yup, a mechanized force means most part of your army is mounted in transports.

This is one of my ForgeWorld Exorcists:

If I remember correctly, you get the plate which holds the missile turret, the turret construction, and the little disk next to the top hatch. You can also order the entire set, including the Rhino, which is what I did. The extra armour and Sisters of Battle Rhino doors and front were not included, and needed to be ordered seperately.

This is the Repressor tank (which I just use as a fancy Rhino for my HQ):

You basically get a Rhino, the dozer blade, and the upper hull part which has the stormbolter and the flamer turret, and the additional firing points. Again, extra armour and Sisters detailing was not included.

As bystrom stated, unless there's some kind of house rule or FAQ your Rhino is as described in your codex: 1 firing point and no repair possibility :) .

[Wolfeather]

:) That's just all kinds of no fun to be honest with you...

 

The paint job on your tanks looks really nice! I really like your sisters of battle emblem on the ForgeWorld Exorcists (well on the Rhino too).. Can I ask how you managed to do that?

 

You have a flamer turret on the Rhino? I didn't see that as an option.. (Not trying to be strange or mean just not quite understanding where its coming from :P )

 

So I guess the next step is to look at my models again, as well as what I am wanting to buy and see if i can come up with an army list and see what you all think.. Thanks so much :)

[Obliterator]

The paint job on your tanks looks really nice! I really like your sisters of battle emblem on the ForgeWorld Exorcists (well on the Rhino too).. Can I ask how you managed to do that?

It's moulded on, some panels were replaced by Forgeworld panels: Rhino doors and front plate and Rhino rear door. The extra armour is also Forgeworld: Rhino extra armour (reinforced)

 

You have a flamer turret on the Rhino? I didn't see that as an option.. (Not trying to be strange or mean just not quite understanding where its coming from :P )

Oh, the flamer is not a legal option for a Rhino, but it is for a Repressor. Since most places I play don't want the Forgeworld rules to be used, I'm using the Repressor tank as a 'counts as' Rhino. The size is about right and it has everything the Rhino has, it just looks a bit different. And this way, there is no doubt about in which Rhino my HQ is

[Wolfeather]

Ahh I see that makes sense i suppose.. What is the Repressor then? Does Forgeworld just have their own thing going on over there? Just seems strange that there is that tank there, just never saw it before.. Thanks for clearing that up about the flamer though, I thought that just maybe there was something cool that I was missing.. Darn :D

[Obliterator]

Forgeworld is basically a part of GW that makes non-mainstream stuff. They offer both kits that allow your army to stand out, and make models that aren't necessarilly in a codex. Sometimes they are just based on fluff, sometimes they create rules for them. Most of those rules are published in the Imperial Armour books. The Repressor tank is featured in Imperial Armour II, which has both Space Marine as Inquisition vehicles. It's basically an Arbites anti-riot vehicle that was modded for more intense conflicts (ie. the water gun was replaced by a stormbolter etc.). Game-wise you get a pimped Rhino, with an additional weapon and more firing points. Kinda like a kind of Rhino-Chimera hybrid.

For friendly games, you can use the Forgeworld stuff, although in the more official circuit of tournaments etc. they mostly don't allow them.

[Wolfeather]

Oh! Thank you!

That sounds like it might be fun to look into, but I did like how the tank looked..

 

The more I read the more it seems like everyone has their own way to make the Sisters work.. Hrem, makes you wonder how I want so wrong lol

 

So I am thinking of trying the Immolator and Dominion squad combo, than for once with the Canoness with her squad, then maybe for once use Celestine..

[number6]

Ah, Oblit! It's so nice to see your models again. Such beautiful work!

 

@Wolfeather: Welcome to the Internet's best home for all things Inquisition! :) Lot's of great advice so far in this topic. Remember that 40K is actually a pretty challenging game, tactically. And part of that challenge starts with learning how to build a solid army list. Second part is learning how to play it. ;)

 

Starting with challenge #1: IMHO, "mech Sisters" is far and away the strongest build out there. I consider it one of the very strongest 40K army builds in the game, honestly. Basic Sisters Troops are very cost effective and Faith is a true "Ace in the hole" when used properly and at the right moment.

 

The downside to mech sisters is that it's an incredibly expensive army to collect. :( Probably the single most expensive force, in fact, since you need a decent number of models and just about everything is metal.

 

Anyway, the build. It resembles something like the following:

 

HQ: Canoness with Celestian Retinue, melta guns, in an Immolator

 

Elite: If you have points available, Celestians, melta guns, in an Immolator

 

Troops: 3-4 Sisters units, 2x meltas in each unit, a VSS for Faith, in Rhinos

 

Heavy: Either 2-3 Exorcists or Immolators (that may be used by your HQ and Elites or even Fast Attack choices)

 

As for challenge #2: The army works because it presents too many armoured targets for nearly any army to stop. You lose a couple vehicles, perhaps a few if you're really unlucky (don't forget the smoke launchers and extra armour!), and then you're right in that sweet short range where Sisters firepower -- boosted by Faith -- is incredibly deadly.