Ultrasonic cleaner

[Tanhausen]

Hello Brothers,

 

I've bought a couple tanks which are sorely needed of paint stripping and re-priming.

 

I did this with my terminators since I didn't like how I had painted them... 40 of them in a alcohol tub for 1 week, it came of nicely! But with a lot of scrubbing since I wanted to prime white and not black anymore.

 

Anyhow, I've also bought some devastators which need some work... and I really don't look forward to so much brushing...

 

1.- Are ultrasonic clearners any good? Is it really like "magic" and 3 minutes in water means no paint and no brushing?

 

2.- What do I really need?

 

Something like this? (which looks more like a vibrator thing than an ultrasonic)

 

http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/m/m2oU9qRep15MpL-iOR9rwGA/80.jpg

 

Or is it better like this?

 

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/m/mRU5lLIG8dsGCqEwAYDZ4lg/80.jpg

 

I mean, one is like 30 and the other like 80 Euros (with shipping) but... I'm only going to buy 1 of this!

 

Please, anybody has used one of these? Can you help me out with your experience? What is that special feature (frequency?) that I have to keep in mind?

 

Thanks!

[asmodai650]

1) Haha!! I wish it was like magic! I have access to one at work, and when I use it I leave the figures in there for about 15 - 20 minutes. Any longer and the heat generated by the machine combined with simple green will start to turn the metal figures dark. A co worker accidentally left the machine on all weekend only to come back in Monday morning to find all the fluid evaporated from the machine and his model airplane engine ruined!

 

2) If you have the money, and plan on using it a lot, get the better of the two. preferably something with adjustable sonic settings. I still mainly use a cheap plastic container with a seal-able lid, some Simple Green, and a toothbrush. even with the ultrasonic, you still have to brush and even scrub the remaining paint off.

 

 

The one we have at work is big enough for a rhino and maybe a Tau Devilfish, but definitely not big enough for a landraider. Honestly, I would get a large food storage container with a good lid, simple green or other paint remover, a toothbrush and patience. Take the money you would have spent on the ultrasonic and invest in something else.

[Terminatorinhell]

Honestly I think a good old soak in Simple Green will do the job just as well, it may just take a wee bit longer.

[Tanhausen]

Thanks for the input Brothers!

 

I haven't used Simple Green (I don't even think we get that in Spain) or any other solution than alcohol... and that did take away the paint with no impact con the plastic models whatsoever.

 

It's good to know that even ultrasonic cleaning requires brushing after the process...that makes the idea MUCH less appealing.

 

I do plan on using it quite a bit (I'm into going for another 40k army and second hand is right now my only option)... but I'm against brushing!

 

Any further comments and experiences with ultrasonic cleaners would be appreciated!

[Tanhausen]

Come on, 68 views and only two "loyal" Brothers? ** loyal as in helpful, Emperor forbid :D **

 

I've continued reading on-line and have found that probably its not like "throw the model in water, 3 minutes and you are ready to go"...and more like "keep your stuff in whatever you use to stripping paint and instead of scrubbing, the sonic cleaner will brush it off".

 

Confirmation? Denial? None of the above?

[Commander Sasha]

I can offer no input regarding miniatures, but as for the ultrasonic cleaner itself, they are fantastic. I service concert lighting and sound equipment, and use it for circuit boards covered in grease and stage crud; jewellery, cutlery, etc.; all come up fantastic in just tap water in 3 minutes.

 

Shop around on the net, I got mine for £25 new online from www.cpcfarnell.com in UK; this model out of stock now, but they're all the same at this price level.

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00351/dig...aner/dp/SA01945

 

It's also very entertaining to watch! Hit the button and watch tarnish and dirt drift off in clouds!

 

Well worth the money; for miniatures, using water, it will either work as a paint stripper, or if it doesn't will at least be great for cleaning them!

[JamesI]

I use an ultrasonic cleaner at work (mine is large enough for probably 3 Land Raiders side by side), but I had never considered cleaning miniatures in it. I'll try that next time I want to strip something.

[Tanhausen]

Thanks for the input Brothers.

 

I'll check the link when I get home tonight... I'm starting to think that I might just not need the expensive one, since its "only" for scrubbing...

 

I'll give it some thought and if anybody else has some experiencie, please do share! (besides asmodai, who gave extremely helpful comment! :) )

[Tanhausen]

@sasha

 

That is a beautiful model... a shame I can't buy it now or find a similar one at ebay hahaha

 

What I am finding is either a cheap 30 Euros one (like the first picture posted) or 80 Euros (like second one posted), one 500 ml the other 1,4 litre...

 

Dunno what to do!

 

If someone can help me look for one and drop here a link or in a PM...I'd appreciate A LOT the help!

[Doghouse]

You're better off with fairy power spray, works absolute wonders and is a heck of a lot cheaper.

 

These guys ship internationally.

 

http://britishonlinesupermarket.com/acatal...up_liquids.html

[Tanhausen]

@doghouse

 

Thanks for the tip... we also get Fairy at out local stores in Spain <_<

 

However, I'm looking into the ultrasonic cleaner to save myself from brushing... and hopefully loosening the glue bonds ;)

[Octavulg]

I found that it didn't work. I can't remember the details of what I did or what the results were, however, so take this with a grain of salt.

[Tanhausen]

@octavulg

 

Thanks for the experience.

 

But I've seen more than once that some do use ultrasonic cleaners for modelling... or is it ONLY for clear coat washing (oil in resin) and the similar?

[SquigBait]

Ok, an ultrasonic cleaner is a good investment only if you are going to be doing a LOT of stripping such as if you are buying ebay lots of poorly painted armies to re-paint and re-sell. While you CAN use just water, using a chemical agent will greatly speed the stripping process. Some readily available chemicals that work well for this would be the aformentioned Simple Green, Pinesol, Purple Power, and others. Pretty much use your preferred product. I would STRONGLY advise against using anything flammable such as alchohol, turpentine, or other harsh chemicals since the ultrasonic will get very warm and it could very likely cause a fire hazard. It may be common sense, but it is still worth mentioning.

 

As mentioned above, it is important to monitor the fluid level in the ultrasonic. If it gets below a certain point you can damage the unit and the pieces you are trying to clean and if it goes dry you can burn out the unit and possible start a fire. It is best to use one of the mentioned cleaning chemicals as you can simply add more water back to it. If you can get hold of it, it is best to use distilled water. The distilled water on its own can act as an effective cleaner since pure water that is free from the chemicals found it tap water is a very agressive substance as the pure water wants to chemically bond with other substances, especially metals. Anyways, the fewer the additional chemicals in the water / cleaner mix, the more effective it will be for cleaning the old paint off.

 

Working in tandem with the ultrasonic, I have always used a steam cleaner. Think of it as a boiler with a foot operated valve and a fine point nozzel on the end of a pipe pointing down. Using the steam cleaner you will get all of the loosened gunk from even the tiniest crevices. I have always done this with pewter figures and it leaves the pewter clean as a fresh casting. I would be careful about doing this to plastic as you may end up melting or at least warping what you are trying to clean. An alternative would be a water pick used for cleaning teeth. You can get home units relatively cheaply and it may be something to consider.

 

So the bottom line here is that if you plan on doing a lot of stripping of models, it may be a worthwhile investment. Otherwise you would be better off just leaving it to soak a few days, scrub a bit, and resoak and scrub again.

[Red Fury]

I have a cheap ultrasonic cleaner sitting in my bathroom that I bought for my girl to clean all the jewelry I buy her. I've never though of using it for stripping a mini though. I used to work for a medical implant company and would clean tools in a ultrasonic cleaner (after an autoclave cleaning) but never really noticed it to effectively loosed dried junk all that well. I'm sure I have a model that could use a fresh paint job, so if you guys are really interested I'll throw one in and record what happens....

 

-Fury

[Tanhausen]

@SquigBait

 

Now that was a thorough reply!

 

- Understood that flammable products are not a good idea in the cleaner *** check in the list ***

 

- Simple green and similar... I tought they were oven foams, not liquids... are you saying that I coat the minis with the foam and then put them in the cleaner (without water)? *** sorry if its an obvious question, but maybe we can end up with a tutorial here! ***

 

- What I had thought was: keeping the minis 24h in a tub with break fluid or whatever (any of the products you mention?) and without rinsing, putting it in the ultrasonic cleaner (with water, windowcleaner or similar). Because I don't think you can simply throw the models in and run it for X minutes and you are ready to go... or is it?

 

Actually, the idea of this is 50/50 personal needs and ebay. I want to expand quite a bit my army, getting a couple LR and predators for my Deathwing and bikes and LS for a Ravenwing...I have found very nice deals (even with shipping from UK to Spain) but feel daunted by the task of scrubbing.

 

The only experience I have stripping is for 40 terminators that I didn't like how they turned out (had 10 of them painted) so I wanted to prime white... and had to strip even the black primer. As said, I was advised alcohol in order to preserve the plastic... and it worked BEAUTIFULLY... just that I had to scrub for HOURS to take away the primer.

 

Since ebay is usually = many many layers of think paint... I'm having nightmares!

 

@RedFury

 

In order for you to do that, do we need to do what your wife does? hahahaha

 

Serious now, I'd appreciate A LOT, and if you post a pic of the ultrasonic cleaner... that would be SO sweet of you :lol:

 

Thanks for the help to all the Brothers that are participating...for things like this is why I love B&C :rolleyes:

[Solid Zaku]

Here's my suggestion. Why don't you go both ways? Sonic toothbrushes are around 50 USD (Or about 20 Euros) and, if you get the actual ones, not just the stupid electric brushes that make a buzzing sound, you'll get what you want. The paint obliterating of the sonic oscillation, with the crevice cleaning and forearm-sparing of an electric brush gives you what you need.

[Tanhausen]

@Solid Zaku

 

Thanks for the idea...I didn't even know ultrasonic toothbrushes existed!

 

Also 50USD=40 EUR... unless today Wall Street went mad... I mean, more than usual! :P

[Mjelnir]

I would recomend Dettol disinfectant. most apothocarys have it and it works like a charm. Just get the brown stuff and not the green one. Only hitch is that its smells like the warp

[SquigBait]

Simple green (at least around here) can be purchased by the gallon in liquid form. The product I use is Purple Power. When using a high concentration of the liquid cleaner (i.e. straight from the jug) a presoak is not necessary as it IS the soak. By using the liquid cleaner like that, as it evaporates down, simply add more water back to it and you are good to go. As you get more paint broken down in the solution you will occasionally have to change the bath and thoroughly clean out the tub of the ultrasonic to maintain a good cleaning ability.

 

Basically you are looking for a good cleaning liquid that is safe for your plastic.

[Tanhausen]

@Mjelnir

 

Detol as in iodine? Like Betadine and similar?

[Mjelnir]

I googled those for ya but it seems they are not similar. But most apothecaries should carry the stuff.

 

Here's a pic of the stuff: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41a-ZFhUlWL.jpg

[Tox_boy]

I have used sonicators at work to strip metal and plastic figures before. Water will probably not cut it. I soak metal figs in Acetone or Methanol and then sonicated, it worked very well. It’s probably not worth it unless you will be using it a lot. Most times I just soak figs in as strong a solvent as the material will take. Then just brush and pick the stubborn stuff off.

 

Important notes:

1st, it helps if the sonicator bath is full of water and your fig is in a beaker full of your preferred solvent. This keeps the bath clean and eliminated the heat issue.

 

2nd, if you want to use acetone have a well ventilated area.

 

3rd, a really cheap plastic sonicator will not like being filled with a strong solvent (acetone).

 

good luck

[momosgarage]

I've continued reading on-line and have found that probably its not like "throw the model in water, 3 minutes and you are ready to go"...and more like "keep your stuff in whatever you use to stripping paint and instead of scrubbing, the sonic cleaner will brush it off".

 

- Simple green and similar... I tought they were oven foams, not liquids... are you saying that I coat the minis with the foam and then put them in the cleaner (without water)? *** sorry if its an obvious question, but maybe we can end up with a tutorial here! ***

 

Here's my suggestion. Why don't you go both ways? Sonic toothbrushes are around 50 USD (Or about 20 Euros) and, if you get the actual ones, not just the stupid electric brushes that make a buzzing sound, you'll get what you want. The paint obliterating of the sonic oscillation, with the crevice cleaning and forearm-sparing of an electric brush gives you what you need.

 

I have used sonicators at work to strip metal and plastic figures before.

 

I would recomend Dettol disinfectant. most apothocarys have it and it works like a charm. Just get the brown stuff and not the green one. Only hitch is that its smells like the warp

 

Looks like we have a lack of trial and error. If I were to take a stab at the best course of action I would suggest the following:

 

1) Soak the models in a strong degreaser like Superclean or Purple Power for a week at full strength (forget about Simple Green, its not strong enough). I have done this alone in Castrol Superclean and its more than enough to remove and losen any kind of paint.

 

2) After the week long soak in superclean, put the models in a heated ultrasonic cleaner filled with pure superclean or Purple Power for 15 minutes.

 

3) If the above is not enough, use an ultrasonic toothbrush like a Sonicare to get in between the crevices.

 

I think these steps will settle the whole "how to strip paint issue" that seems to come up daily on the B&C. I also wouldn't put Dettol in a heated ultrasonic cleaner.

[Tanhausen]

¿?

 

I'd say the previous replies helped out quite a bit, adding significant advice.