Pre-measuring & Vehicle cover clarification

[Kungh]

Hey all,

 

Just had a couple of questions, basic stuff really, that came up in a game I was 2-3 hours ago.

So first up: premeasuring before deciding the route for a unit. e.g: Say you have a unit of marines. you're about to move them forward the full 6 inches allowed. You ofcourse measure the thing. Now, before moving, can you change the course and place the measure say to the left of the unit, to move them to the left instead? Bottom line, can you pre-measure the movement of a unit? The BRB says in p3 that:

 

"In general, players are not allower to measure any distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after declaring an assault or firing at an enemy...etc).

 

The second thing I need a bit of help with is Vehicles cover saves.

So this guy had a mob of lootas inside area terrain. my rhino was exposed to them. they shot me and he got a wrecked result.Ok cool. But according to area terrain rules p22

 

"Firing through units of area terrain: if a model fires through the gaps between some elements of area terrain or through the gaps betwee models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover"

Later on, in the vehicles cover saves, the rules are pretty much straightforward, Vehicles can only benefit from cover if they are 50%+ obscured, from the firer's point of view.

 

Any insight?

 

BR

 

Mike

[rat of vengence]

For the first, that's tricky. I would say definitely no if they were measuring pre-assault, or seeing if they were in rapid fire range, but moving the squad 6" I would not be so worried.

The second is clear. It is the second option, from the firers point of view. Vehicles have different cover rules to other units.

 

RoV

[The Wunup Kid]

Hey all,

 

Just had a couple of questions, basic stuff really, that came up in a game I was 2-3 hours ago.

So first up: premeasuring before deciding the route for a unit. e.g: Say you have a unit of marines. you're about to move them forward the full 6 inches allowed. You ofcourse measure the thing. Now, before moving, can you change the course and place the measure say to the left of the unit, to move them to the left instead? Bottom line, can you pre-measure the movement of a unit? The BRB says in p3 that:

 

"In general, players are not allower to measure any distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after declaring an assault or firing at an enemy...etc).

 

...

 

Any insight?

 

BR

 

Mike

I would say you can measure up to 6" from the start point of the unit, and move them anywhere within that 6" during that unit's movement step. I would even say it's okay to start moving models along one route, then change your mind and backtrack and move them in an entirely different direction, as long as 2 requisites are met:

 

1. The player has not moved on to another unit in the movement phase (and I can even be lenient on that one).

 

2. The player has not measured a significant distance beyond that unit's range of movement. "Significant distance beyond" qualifies as the 1-2" you see on the tape measure when checking distances.

 

A good example would be...

 

A player moves his assault unit their allowed movement with the intent to assault a nearby enemy unit this phase. Upon completing the movement, when eyeballing (not measuring exactly) the distance he still needs to close to get into assault, he feels he wouldn't make it, and wants to reconsider the unit's movement, perhaps in a drastically different direction.

 

I would be okay with this. Even if it resulted in a lost advantage on my part...if I feel my opponent is making a decision based on instinct rather than hard numbers and seeing the unit's position on the board changed their feelings (note, feelings =/= knowledge), I would let them move the unit back to the original position and reconsider their options.

 

After all, maybe they're wrong and my unit that could viably have been assaulted is now not being threatened because of a bad call on my opponents parts. However, I think that this is the kind of thing that falls under the "sportsmanship" part of the game. You can be a good sport or a bad sport, it's your choice on what you want to allow, and keep in mind the game is a social activity.

 

Of course, if I feel my opponent is taking advantage of my (what I feel is) good sportsmanship, my opinion might change...

[stinkenheim]

^ agree 100% with this.

 

Its all down to how 'relaxed' you are with your opponent. I know many times during games with my regular opponent i have forgotten to do soemthing and we always let each other do backsies within reason.

I know i usually measure the 6" move in a couple of directions before deciding, not always but sometimes. Especially if i am trying to ensure i stay out of sight or such like.

[Kungh]

Well, thanks for the replies guys, I will agree with you regarding the sportsmanship attitude. I just wanted to clear some things up. I mostly play with my buddies, so it's not really an issue of some obnoxious random rival, we can and we have been very lenient rules regarding in several circumstances.

 

Afterall, it's all about fun, at least for me. I'm not that competitive, but I do like to play by the rules. Else I would just be moving around toy soldiers and had fun imitating battle sounds like I used to do as a kid :D

 

But seriously, I wouldn't be comfortable, if the situation was a critical pre-assault phase, with a certain mischievous eye-balling going on.

 

Thanks again :lol:

 

Mike.

[Seahawk]

I'd say no, actually. I'll insert a quote by a member from our club as to why:

 

Once you move a model, there is no definitive way to prove where he just was. You cannot "measure back," because there is no way to know that the angle of movement is going to be the same. Once a model is moved, the model is moved. If it caused something bad to happen, that sucks, but it is all part of the game.

You can measure whichever way you might want to go, but when you start moving you have to commit. There is no moving back in my book.

[SeattleDV8]

Although it can cause problem's like Seahawk mentioned the answer is yes

BRB pg. 11

"It is perfectly fine to measure a unit's move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else...."

[ShinyRhino]

Although it can cause problem's like Seahawk mentioned the answer is yes

BRB pg. 11

"It is perfectly fine to measure a unit's move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else...."

 

This. It happens a lot when you roll for Difficult Terrain. You measure your move, roll the difficult, end up with snakeyes and decide "That'd be silly to move 1" there." You instead move in the opposite direction, or at another angle.

[dswanick]

Hey all,

 

Just had a couple of questions, basic stuff really, that came up in a game I was 2-3 hours ago.

So first up: premeasuring before deciding the route for a unit. e.g: Say you have a unit of marines. you're about to move them forward the full 6 inches allowed. You ofcourse measure the thing. Now, before moving, can you change the course and place the measure say to the left of the unit, to move them to the left instead? Bottom line, can you pre-measure the movement of a unit? The BRB says in p3 that:

 

"In general, players are not allower to measure any distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after declaring an assault or firing at an enemy...etc). - You may pre-measure your move per BRB pg. 11 : "It is perfectly fine to measure a unit's move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else....", but if there are dice rolls for difficult terrain you are then committed. to the results of the dice roll.

 

The second thing I need a bit of help with is Vehicles cover saves.

So this guy had a mob of lootas inside area terrain. my rhino was exposed to them. they shot me and he got a wrecked result.Ok cool. But according to area terrain rules p22

 

"Firing through units of area terrain: if a model fires through the gaps between some elements of area terrain or through the gaps betwee models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover"

Later on, in the vehicles cover saves, the rules are pretty much straightforward, Vehicles can only benefit from cover if they are 50%+ obscured, from the firer's point of view.

 

I have a thread discussing this here.

Any insight?

 

BR

 

Mike

[Seahawk]

Although it can cause problem's like Seahawk mentioned the answer is yes

BRB pg. 11

"It is perfectly fine to measure a unit's move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else...."

That's actually entirely different from the problem I mention. The book says you may measure a unit's move in one direction, not move them one direction and then change your mind.

[Commander Sasha]

Although it can cause problem's like Seahawk mentioned the answer is yes

BRB pg. 11

"It is perfectly fine to measure a unit's move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else...."

 

This. It happens a lot when you roll for Difficult Terrain. You measure your move, roll the difficult, end up with snakeyes and decide "That'd be silly to move 1" there." You instead move in the opposite direction, or at another angle.

Just to clarify, you do only move 1", right? p14 BRB says that once the dice are rolled for difficult terrain, even if you choose to stand still you count as having moved; I would not accept a 6" move in a different direction after a 1" difficult roll.

 

Is this right?

[Sparhawk]

We'll actually use place holder models/markers to put down at the location of intended movement as the visual clue. Granted this is not a RAW idea but a tool that some others on board may like to use.

[Seahawk]

Just to clarify, you do only move 1", right? p14 BRB says that once the dice are rolled for difficult terrain, even if you choose to stand still you count as having moved; I would not accept a 6" move in a different direction after a 1" difficult roll.

 

Is this right?

Right. If you roll for difficult terrain at all then the following two things happen: You count as having moved, and your maximum move for the turn is what you rolled. Doesn't matter if you go a different direction or not even into the terrain. As with moving then moving back, you've committed to one course of action, and the rules make you follow through.

 

Sparhawk, I very much like and support that idea! Consider it nabbed...it'll give me an excuse to paint a one-off piece, clearly labelled as "placeholder" heh.

[ShinyRhino]

Just to clarify, you do only move 1", right? p14 BRB says that once the dice are rolled for difficult terrain, even if you choose to stand still you count as having moved; I would not accept a 6" move in a different direction after a 1" difficult roll.

 

Is this right?

Right. If you roll for difficult terrain at all then the following two things happen: You count as having moved, and your maximum move for the turn is what you rolled. Doesn't matter if you go a different direction or not even into the terrain. As with moving then moving back, you've committed to one course of action, and the rules make you follow through.

 

 

Seahawk has it covered, though I should have been clearer. The 1" example is relatively moot, but if you roll, say 4" and needed 5" to get to assault range by moving off the top of a piece of terrain, it might be smarter to move 4" backward off the terrain to keep your guys out of LOS, or at least give them cover, or force the enemy to have to roll well on his DT checks to assault you.