Lessons learned from playing BA?

[Slim Pickens]

Most effective unit ever:

 

Stormraven w/beacon

10 DC with PF/TH

Lemartes

Furioso/DC dread with Talons (depending on if you have elite slots for furioso)

 

I find theres very little that 30-40 wounding hits(many PW, I5+) cant handle...

[SamaNagol]

They can't handle 5 Long Fangs with Missile Launchers. *POP*

[Andrew_Beck]

Most effective unit ever:

 

Stormraven w/beacon

10 DC with PF/TH

Lemartes

Furioso/DC dread with Talons (depending on if you have elite slots for furioso)

 

I find theres very little that 30-40 wounding hits(many PW, I5+) cant handle...

 

I just have to unleash my black rage on this. TOTAL NONSENSE and BRAIN LACK!!!!! over 700pts loaded in something with av12. even any lame autocannon will kill it or as mentioned sw longfangs for lousy 130pts (if not having WG with cyclone) will make you loose.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Uhh yeah it is a super expensive unit - and none of it is scoring.

 

But if you are playing a newb who ignores it - seeya later.

[Slim Pickens]

Most effective unit ever:

 

Stormraven w/beacon

10 DC with PF/TH

Lemartes

Furioso/DC dread with Talons (depending on if you have elite slots for furioso)

 

I find theres very little that 30-40 wounding hits(many PW, I5+) cant handle...

 

I just have to unleash my black rage on this. TOTAL NONSENSE and BRAIN LACK!!!!! over 700pts loaded in something with av12. even any lame autocannon will kill it or as mentioned sw longfangs for lousy 130pts (if not having WG with cyclone) will make you loose.

 

 

... nothing can hit it before it drops its cargo- either you go first and deploy it before zooming flat out, or you reserve it and flat out onto the table and drop with the locator beacon. It would take a seize initiative to be able to shoot it before it de planes its cargo.

 

Try it the right way before you dismiss it. Ive rarely even had it shot at once it drops off, because so much else is higher threat, the SR is the least of the opponents worries. The key is to have a true threat profile with your army so the SR is not alone in target priority. I run it with at least 2 AV13+ threats plus the dread/ squad it carries- thats plenty of other stuff the opponent must worry about besides the raven.

 

Sure its expensive and a bit of a basket for lots of eggs, but it works.

[SamaNagol]

Either way, it dies turn 2. The cargo may or may not die turn 2 also, considering that they cannot assault. The dreadnought DEFINITELY is anyway. The DC are probably too survivable to get taken down in one turn. They'll lose a fair bit though.

 

Give you an example vs IG. Turn 1 and half your pods come in, you move and drop your cargo. Run move to space out/redeploy/ IG Turn 1, 3 melta vets get out of a chimera and slag the Dreadnought from the rear. 3 Vendettas blow the AV12 Stormraven out of the sky. Rest of the army pours all of the shots it has left into the DC seeing as it can afford to ignore the rest of the force which is across the table. That's a minimum of 500pts gone without doing anything that couldn't be achieved with Drop Pods.

[Isryion]

I love theoryhammer in a box. There's nothing on the board besides the stormraven and no enemy threats have been neutralized. Plus, we're assuming the stormraven player is an idiot.

 

If he's got it working for him, he's got it working. If you haven't tried it or seen it, it's tough to argue against it legitimately.

[SamaNagol]

I've put plenty of time into trying them out. AV12 is INCREDIBLY vulnerable to a lot of stuff you will see lots of on the board. They are hugely expensive for what they do. Their only up side is the fact you can Assault from them, but the poster is not advocating that. Just moving models across the table top quickly then assaulting the next turn after dropping in. Land Raiders offer the same benefit for the same price, and they can also Deep Strike!

 

The reason you can get away with a Land Raider is from across the other side of the board that AV14 is very survivable, it's not til you get up close that it becomes in serious threat. The Storm Raven is in fact at more of a risk across the board. A Land Raider is 100% survivable against Autocannons, Multi Lasers and pretty much indestructible against Missile Launchers. Storm Ravens can get crippled by all of those things.

 

And you bring up target priority, well I am sorry but if someone drops.... 700 odd points of stuff on my doorstep, I don't care how many Baal Predators you have, I am going to take out that first.

 

I really don't see how they will make them an attractive choice, unless they change them drastically for the Grey Knights codex giving them some sort of Shrouding rule.

[Sanguinarian]

Either way, it dies turn 2. The cargo may or may not die turn 2 also, considering that they cannot assault. The dreadnought DEFINITELY is anyway. The DC are probably too survivable to get taken down in one turn. They'll lose a fair bit though.

 

Give you an example vs IG. Turn 1 and half your pods come in, you move and drop your cargo. Run move to space out/redeploy/ IG Turn 1, 3 melta vets get out of a chimera and slag the Dreadnought from the rear. 3 Vendettas blow the AV12 Stormraven out of the sky. Rest of the army pours all of the shots it has left into the DC seeing as it can afford to ignore the rest of the force which is across the table. That's a minimum of 500pts gone without doing anything that couldn't be achieved with Drop Pods.

 

They can only assault if the SR deploys 12" on Turn 1, but if it Deep Strikes in on Turn 2+, it and it's cargo are sitting ducks. I'd deploy it 12", move 12"; disembark everything 2", and now it's a supporting Gunship firing at 2 targets. The DC Dread has Fleet, so can run 1-6" and assault another 6" meaning it can assault anything deployed 10" or more from the opposite table edge; while the DC & Chaplain can at least shoot anything deployed 10" or more on the board. Pretty scary if you also have a pair of Baals 36" across the table supported by 1 or 2 Vindicators sitting at 24" unleashing hell at everything they see!!!

[Johnny Dangerous]

The Fast Vindicator has been very impressive and has worked well, as to be expected with some typhoons as a real pain in my opponents side.

 

I played a game with only one priest to see what it it was like. It was not awesome. So now I try to make sure I have at least two. It worked well last game for me to take the Las/Plasma razorback, with RAS(fist/melta) and SP inside, followed by a 10 man RAS fist(dual melta). After getting to a good assault point, both squads got out and assaulted two squads of bikers.(But stayed well within 6"). My other two vehicle squad had a priest(pf) in the Rhino, and a captain with TH in the las plasma Razorback. They quickly arrived at their destination the same turn. It was at this point, after looking at the stats my opponent conceded. It was pretty spelled out.

 

I deepstriked a redeemer, it seemed kind of pointless. I bet I would have made it to the same place on the table if I would have just started from the edge.

 

I thought twin-linked heavy flamer sounded awsome on a razorback, especially a fast one!!! But since they are so fragile they end up destroyed or worse immobilized(ever game at least one), leaving me a cool flame turret that no enemies will go close to. It may work to speed over to an objective someone wants to take.... and especially against orks on foot... until all of them dont die and the nob can openers your vehicle.

 

Every time I have played JP's Ive been lashed and vindicatored, or If thats out of range oblits light me up with plasma cannons. How are you guys working around that scenario? I do not have good enough luck with Pyschic Hood.

[Isryion]

I've put plenty of time into trying them out. AV12 is INCREDIBLY vulnerable to a lot of stuff you will see lots of on the board. They are hugely expensive for what they do. Their only up side is the fact you can Assault from them, but the poster is not advocating that. Just moving models across the table top quickly then assaulting the next turn after dropping in. Land Raiders offer the same benefit for the same price, and they can also Deep Strike!

 

Not to call you out, but something stuck with me in a thread a couple of days ago, but haven't you played only like 5 games with the new book? I have about 10 games under my belt and I've never tried one, but ironically it's partly for the reasons you say. Mostly, though, it's the idea of having such a vehicle in the game that just doesn't sit right with me. However, having not played them, it's just a guess and I certainly don't think we've heard of them at their full potential just yet for many reasons. Seeing people do well with them is pretty encouraging.

 

One thing I meant to add in my original post is that while I've had great success with my DC dread with talons, there are a couple of games where I was extremely lucky it got into combat at all. As I use it more, I could easily see it becoming such a high priority that it will be 160 points (with drop pod). I think to make them effective you need two drop pods, at least, in the list.

[xanosaucy]

I agree that is one expensive load for the an AV12 vehicle to have but if you can make it work then why not? I mean I've played the Stormraven in 3 games and the 3rd time was a charm. The first attempt I used it as a transport with no upgrades full with 5 DC Jump Packs and Dreadnought in reserves I dropped off the cargo but they were too exposed and dies shortly after. 2nd time kept it as a gunship with no cargo, with TL Lascannon, TL Multi-Melta, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor but it failed to make its points worth. 3rd time same as first but combined with the 2nd outing completely kitted out but with TH/SS Terminators and Dreadnought worked much better since the Terminators just shrugged off everything thrown at them thus allowing the Dreadnought to close in on exposed infantry and shredding them to bits. The Extra Armor kept it moving after it delivered its payload and it survived the whole game. PotMS really kicks your opponent in the teeth when combined with a Fast vehicle that can fire its Hurricane Bolters even if it moves 12". The whole game I didn't even use its Hellstrike Missiles. Whatever works for you I suppose.

[thundrchickn]

I haven't had any luck with my stormravens. I ran 2 in the hope of having 1 survive. It never made its points back. Neither of em. Like mentioned earlier. Just about anything can kill this vehicle. I tried skirting the outside of the table edges trying to stay outta most of their armies range and it still didn't work. As a gun toting vehicle, both of the preds are better for less pts. And as a tranport, a LR is easily better now that they can DS although I can't figure out y you'd want to do that.

[Roland Durendal]

I must say (and this is true for pretty much all new Codex armies, but seems very prevalent in BA ones) that a lot of people are playing uber-Deathstar-all-eggs-in-one basket style units nowadays.

 

Whether it is the 700pt SR loaded with DC, Lem, and a Dread or a 800pt LR loaded with 14 DC with goodies, people are dropping waay to many points in lucky one hit wonders. I think that is what I've learned from the BA 'dex so far: people are easily enthralled with the new toys and options to the point of putting all their tabletop hopes in one uberunit to win the game for them. It doesn't matter how great a player you are, if you hinge your game on such a unit, you're really handicapping yourself, for what happens or what do you do if that SR/LR gets destroyed before it can deliver it's cargo?

 

And before anyone says "I can have it in your face by turn 2", let's remember this is a game of chance and dice. THere's no guarantee it'll be in your opponents face by turn 2, as depending on how you deploy it (i.e. either on the board or in reserves) there's no guarantee it'll even be on the board period.

 

Just some food for thought on a trend I've noticed and something I've learned about the new BA codex

[thundrchickn]

I must say (and this is true for pretty much all new Codex armies, but seems very prevalent in BA ones) that a lot of people are playing uber-Deathstar-all-eggs-in-one basket style units nowadays.

 

Whether it is the 700pt SR loaded with DC, Lem, and a Dread or a 800pt LR loaded with 14 DC with goodies, people are dropping waay to many points in lucky one hit wonders. I think that is what I've learned from the BA 'dex so far: people are easily enthralled with the new toys and options to the point of putting all their tabletop hopes in one uberunit to win the game for them. It doesn't matter how great a player you are, if you hinge your game on such a unit, you're really handicapping yourself, for what happens or what do you do if that SR/LR gets destroyed before it can deliver it's cargo?

 

And before anyone says "I can have it in your face by turn 2", let's remember this is a game of chance and dice. THere's no guarantee it'll be in your opponents face by turn 2, as depending on how you deploy it (i.e. either on the board or in reserves) there's no guarantee it'll even be on the board period.

 

Just some food for thought on a trend I've noticed and something I've learned about the new BA codex

 

i agree. theres too many pt hungry pitfalls in this codex and people need to start looking out. DC is the major offender cuz come on they're so cool but with a land raider they're well over 500 pts a squad. Veteran squads are nothing compared to a RAS w/ SP. Stormravens are stupid for their pt cost. They should come down a few pts. sang guard seem a bit much.

[dendrofil]

Also want to say what an awesome thread this is, I'm loving reading how everyone finds their own awesomeness in the Blood Angels!

 

Thanks. :huh:

Was hoping for a well balanced discussion about what people found out while playing, instead of just reading through what's the flavour of the week on the interwebz (no offense B&C :D ).

So far, no flame wars, and its quite satisfying to have started a topic that people feel good about. :D

 

I must say (and this is true for pretty much all new Codex armies, but seems very prevalent in BA ones) that a lot of people are playing uber-Deathstar-all-eggs-in-one basket style units nowadays.

 

I have to agree on this, although I'm semi-guilty myself.

Was putting together a 2000p list the other day and was first trying to include either a wellequipped Honour Guard, and then the CC Death Star Termies with priest and Chaplain in a LR of some sort.

But just considering the % of the total points spent in one place (basically) made me frown and rewrite the list completely.

I ended up with 6 troop choices (no multiples of the same loadout) and a good spread on Fast attack and Heavy Support without any expensive units, and managed to table my friends IG army (first one ever to do that).

 

The lesson to me that time was that we don't really need that Uber Death Star of Doom. Since our Assault Squads are fast, either from Rhino-driving or from jump packing, we can get our good units to wherever we want them.

With good backup from other assault squads if needed.

A decently equipped 10man RAS rocks and costs less than other hard-hitting units with the same, or better, ways of movement and redeployment.

[SamaNagol]

Not to call you out, but something stuck with me in a thread a couple of days ago, but haven't you played only like 5 games with the new book? I have about 10 games under my belt and I've never tried one, but ironically it's partly for the reasons you say. Mostly, though, it's the idea of having such a vehicle in the game that just doesn't sit right with me. However, having not played them, it's just a guess and I certainly don't think we've heard of them at their full potential just yet for many reasons. Seeing people do well with them is pretty encouraging.

 

5 games with my FT list. Played about 25-30 before I ever sat down and tried to write a serious list.

[Ultramarcos]

From my end.

 

SP are an awesome asset to our armies they pump the RAS in such a way that they are really nasty

Razorbacks with TL flamers are not working reasons mentioned above.

Razorbacks with AssCannon Works...despite the fact of being a bit pricy...synergies are important here, and don't load them with Power fists...they are to few to manage any real damange. Very good support to the 10 men Rhino right next to the squad with Priest.

Vindies are outstanding but not unstopable. EA is really important as you want to keep it moving all the time, being fast helps to ease the charges (hits on 6 only)

10 men RAS (being Rhino or JP) really good with a priest with it and we should Spam them in the army.

Baals are a good distraction and psy factor for our enemies, to have them Scouting 18 + move 12 and fire is hard on oponents strategy and confidence level...but after that...they are not really super...they are but a distraction for our enemies.

and the cherry of this all...Mephiston, this guy is a beast, there is whole thread about him so I will not go into details, but he is worth every point. Send him alone in one side of the table and the rest of the army in the other and you will still have him grinding things. I don't leave home without him anymore. It's almost unfair...in a tournament of 5 games he killed, all by himself 2 Demons and 1 demon prince, not counting all the rest.

[SamaNagol]

Yeh, Fast vehicles really is awesome. It makes our vehicles 3 times more survivable against assaults, which is FANTASTIC.

[JamesI]

I love the fact that everyone here has different ideas as what works and what doesn't. We don't have to all have cookie-cutter lists, there are options so people can use what they like/what works for them.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I love the fact that everyone here has different ideas as what works and what doesn't. We don't have to all have cookie-cutter lists, there are options so people can use what they like/what works for them.

 

This perhaps deserves a separate topic... but did any of you see the Darkwynn Blood Angels list that was recently on BOLS?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/06/dar...able-blood.html

 

You might remember he is the "leaf blower" creator. Do you believe his "cookie cutter" list there is ultimately bad for us, or the reputation of our codex? There is soo much vitrol heated discussion in the comments that it hurts to read.

[Rybnick]

So far the things I've liked most about playing the BA are:

1) troop choices with JP. I've yet to play a game where I didn't have at least a 10 man ASM/priest unit with JP. Love their mobility and the SP really pushes them over the top.

2) SP with PW's. I don't feel right leaving SP's in transports and I justify the 15 points as protection for my 50pt IC. The PW on the SP ALWAYS surprises my opponents and he generally does pretty well in killing department.

3) Assault Cannons, love em. 4 very accurate shots that have a good shot at destroying or at least disrupting just about any vehicle on the table, plus with all fast rhino chasis they have a very respectable range. I can think of better anti-tank and anti-troop options but not much that can do both as well as the asscan.

4)Psychic powers, specifically Shield of Sanguinius and Blood Lance. I take great pleasure in Drop Podding in a Librarian (furioso or otherwise) in on turn one and destroying a line of vehicles. Worked last week on a pair of dreadnoughts like a charm, destroying one and immobilizing the other. Shield is a great resource as well, it's saved more than a handful of my Angels.

5) Mephiston. Not only is he a lot of fun to play with, it's pretty entertaining to hear opponents reactions when you explain how he works or list his stat line (especially if they have little or no psychic defense).

6) DC, I know a lot of people don't care to run DC in their lists but I've had great results so far. Super killy unit and with a chaplain (preferably a reclusiarch for me) they mulch nearly everything in their way. Not to mention they give you access to the DC dread which is so much fun to play. Once again watching people reactions when they think they have stunned/immobilized him or when they realize that he has fleet are priceless. Too bad rage has to spoil all the DC's fun, used carefully though they can be devastating.

 

Just a few conceptions from a new WH40k player, I'm sure their are more I'm missing. I really wish their was a storm raven model I think they would be veery fun to play with.

[SamaNagol]

That list isn't very good. It's just optimized to attempt to run the same as units of IG Vets with Meltas in Chimeras. But they cost a lot more points for the privilege.

 

Furioso Librarian Dreads are a redundant choice, Baals are very expensive if you run with them Assault Cannon compared to the 55 pt Razorback version which can also carry scoring Troops inside with Melta. No Sanguinary Priests at all means you are ignoring some of the basic facets of the advantages BA have over other marines. If you wanted to spam units at 2.5k then 4 Land Raiders with lots of Attack Bike outriders to protect them from roving Mechanized Meltaguns would be the spammers choice.

 

I doubt you'd actually beat a Salamander codex list with that.

 

Personally I'd never run a competitive 2500pt list without Corbulo and Mephiston. They are incredibly good value.

[Roachboy]

I'm afraid I have fallen into the uber-unit trap (14 DC with Reclusiarch in LR Crusader) but it kills literally ANYTHING (and often everything)

 

To make up for this silly expensive unit I normally run them with minimum sized melta/fist RAS in razorbacks as these seem to be really cheap for the damage they can cause.

 

Another build I like is Astorath led jump pack armies, as this lessens the need for priests to make your charges furious...

 

Other things I like about the new codex:

 

1: Priests are the best thing since bread, sliced or otherwise.

 

2: Fast Rhino chassis: Makes mech BA truly terrifying, and my trusty vindicators rock even more now

[Ranwulf]

Death Company. EVERYONE.

 

Death Company Dread with Blood Talons are the deal. In one game my Dread killed one Sternguard Squad (in one single assault,oh, how much I love Blood Talons) and three Tactical Squads.

 

Lemartes, have been since 4th edition my hero. I love the chap, he helped me winning my games when I was starting. Now, altough I can't take him without a JP DC, or a Stormraven, he every single time, get Berzerk and kill almost an entire squad of marines. (Last time I used him he was responsible for killing and entire Nob Bikerz Squad).

 

Astorath, altough I don't like him that much, he proved useful against HQs and TH/SS Termies.

 

(I don't like Astorath cause he stole Lemartes postion as the High Chaplain!)

 

Ran