Tempest Wrath: Clarification

[Grimtooth]

Tempest Wrath lists the units that it affects and how they treat all terrain as both difficult and dangerous terrain.

 

An example I would like clarification would be with jump infantry:

 

Say a unit of BA jump infantry deep strike within my Tempest Wrath bubble. They will of course have to take a Dangerous Terrain test rolling a d6 for every model with rolls of a one causing a wound.

 

Now in their next turn, they forgo use of their jump packs to move as infantry. Since the rule for Tempest Wrath specify that the unit type (Jump Infantry) treats all terrain as both difficult AND dangerous terrain, would the BA jump infantry unit have to roll 2d6 and pick the highest for moving through difficult terrain and then also roll a d6 for every model for moving through dangerous terrain with rolls of one causing a wound? What about a subsequent assault? Would they have to roll 2d6 for difficult terrain to see if they can assault and also roll a d6 for dangerous terrain?

[Grey Mage]

RAW- it still effects them. Because its not how theyre moving, but their unit type.

 

On the flip side, units that are not of those types, but move like them, wouldnt be affected.

 

My group has decided to play its all how you move- though assault moves always count as jumping.

[Grimtooth]

RAW- it still effects them. Because its not how theyre moving, but their unit type.

 

On the flip side, units that are not of those types, but move like them, wouldnt be affected.

 

My group has decided to play its all how you move- though assault moves always count as jumping.

 

Wait did you answer my question? Hahahaha! I know it is based on unit type, but is the playing process, "ok, roll for difficult terrain for the unit and then roll a dangerous terrain test for all of them."

[Grey Mage]

1) Its only 1d6 for assault.

2) The rolls are, timewise, simultaneous- once you roll the difficult terrain test youve "moved". So you can roll them in either order, but roll one and you roll the other.

3) Yes, you roll dangerous terrain again on the assault- and if they run.

[dswanick]

Tempest Wrath lists the units that it affects and how they treat all terrain as both difficult and dangerous terrain.

 

An example I would like clarification would be with jump infantry:

 

Say a unit of BA jump infantry deep strike within my Tempest Wrath bubble. They will of course have to take a Dangerous Terrain test rolling a d6 for every model with rolls of a one causing a wound.

 

Now in their next turn, they forgo use of their jump packs to move as infantry. Since the rule for Tempest Wrath specify that the unit type (Jump Infantry) treats all terrain as both difficult AND dangerous terrain, would the BA jump infantry unit have to roll 2d6 and pick the highest for moving through difficult terrain and then also roll a d6 for every model for moving through dangerous terrain with rolls of one causing a wound? What about a subsequent assault? Would they have to roll 2d6 for difficult terrain to see if they can assault and also roll a d6 for dangerous terrain?

 

Codex:Space Wolves, pg37, Tempest's Wrath - "Until the beginning of the Rune Priest's next turn, all enemy Skimmers, Jetbikes, Jump Infantry, and units deploying from Deep Strike that finish their move within 24" of the Rune Priest treat all terrain, even clear terrain, as both difficult and dangerous."

 

BRB, pg52, Jump Infantry/Movement - "Jump Infantry can use their jump packs (or equivalent) and move up to 12" in the movement phase. This is optional and they can choose to move as normal infantry if they wish. When using jump pack, they can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must make a dangerous terrain test."

 

You can only argue that Tempest's Wrath works this way if you also argue that even when electing to "move as normal infantry" any Jump Infantry unit type model still takes dangerous terrain tests in normal difficult terrain. You can't pick and choose when you strictly enforce this rule and when you interpret it in a given game. And even then this interpretation would require some mental gymnastics to make the claim that although the work "However," is used it doesn't link the dangerous terrain test sentence to the "When using Jump Packs" sentence.

[Grey Mage]

Im sorry, did you just say that Jump Infantry wouldnt have to test? RAW?

[dswanick]

If they choose not to use their jump pack, yes. I've never required an opponent to roll a dangerous terrain test if their Jump Infantry walked out of an area of difficult terrain. So wouldn't require the same if a Jump Infantry unit walked in a Tempest's wrath.

[Grey Mage]

If they choose not to use their jump pack, yes. I've never required an opponent to roll a dangerous terrain test if their Jump Infantry walked out of an area of difficult terrain. So wouldn't require the same if a Jump Infantry unit walked in a Tempest's wrath.

Ahh, but you see RAW it has nothing to do with their mode of movement, just their unit type.

[dswanick]

If they choose not to use their jump pack, yes. I've never required an opponent to roll a dangerous terrain test if their Jump Infantry walked out of an area of difficult terrain. So wouldn't require the same if a Jump Infantry unit walked in a Tempest's wrath.

Ahh, but you see RAW it has nothing to do with their mode of movement, just their unit type.

Well the rule DOES specifiy it treats it as both. So it's dangerous terrain even if they choose to move as Infantry. Why does your group play it otherwise?

[Coverfire]

I am not sure which way to side on this one.

 

As Grey Mage says, the unit type is still Jump Infantry even when they walk as infantry, and therefore must take dangerous terrain tests for Tempests Wrath.

 

dswanick states, the rulebook says that, they may choose to move as normal infantry, so ignores the dangerous terrain test but as Grey Mage said, their unit type must still be Jump Infantry.

 

Another comparison argument might be if I used my Wolf Priests 'Oath of War' against the unit type Infantry, to charge Jump Infantry that only walked as Infantry the turn before, can I re-roll my hits? The Answer is no, because their unit type is still Jump Infantry.

 

So I will have to side with Grey Mage

[ShinyRhino]

Yep it's a stinker, but they unit type never changes, so Wrath still hits them for dangerous terrain tests. Might as well just use the 12" move and get closer, or get further away. Remember, if you jump AWAY from the priest and land outside his bubble...no tests.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Yep it's a stinker, but they unit type never changes, so Wrath still hits them for dangerous terrain tests. Might as well just use the 12" move and get closer, or get further away. Remember, if you jump AWAY from the priest and land outside his bubble...no tests.

Heresy! Space Marines NEVER run away!

 

On a more serious note, Grey Mage is correct if you take RAW. However, if you take RAI, dswanick is correct. It's all a matter of who interprets what, how and when. It's best to agree with your opponent before hand by simply saying "I am taking Tempest Wrath. Are we counting Jump Infantry if they move as infantry?" Whatever your opponent (or tournament organiser) says is how you play it.

[dswanick]

Actually, I agree with Grey Mage's assessment of the rule. I was only disagreeing with him because of his statement that his group plays the other way. I was questioning how he justifies the RAW and then says they allow the incorrect ruling. Becuase it does state that jump infantry count the all terrain as difficult AND dangerous, and even walking through dangerous terrain requires a test.

[Roland Durendal]

Yep it's a stinker, but they unit type never changes, so Wrath still hits them for dangerous terrain tests. Might as well just use the 12" move and get closer, or get further away. Remember, if you jump AWAY from the priest and land outside his bubble...no tests.

 

Actually wrong...if you start inside the bubble and move...regardless if you end your move outside the bubble...you still test.

 

 

Unless you meant you're already outside the bubble to begin with in which case you just jump around and move around it and not through it, in which case you're correct.

[Seahawk]

"Until the beginning of the Rune Priest's next turn, all enemy Skimmers, Jetbikes, Jump Infantry, and units deploying from Deep Strike that finish their move within 24" of the Rune Priest treat all terrain, even clear terrain..."

Actually they're right, Durendal. It specifically says when the unit finishes their move with 24", not if they move within 24" and move back out. This is different to the normal type of Dangerous Terrain we're used to.

[Roland Durendal]

"Until the beginning of the Rune Priest's next turn, all enemy Skimmers, Jetbikes, Jump Infantry, and units deploying from Deep Strike that finish their move within 24" of the Rune Priest treat all terrain, even clear terrain..."

Actually they're right, Durendal. It specifically says when the unit finishes their move with 24", not if they move within 24" and move back out. This is different to the normal type of Dangerous Terrain we're used to.

 

Ack! I stand corrected <_<

[Grey Mage]

Actually, I agree with Grey Mage's assessment of the rule. I was only disagreeing with him because of his statement that his group plays the other way. I was questioning how he justifies the RAW and then says they allow the incorrect ruling. Becuase it does state that jump infantry count the all terrain as difficult AND dangerous, and even walking through dangerous terrain requires a test.

We dont justify it as RAW- its our houserule. Jump Infantry are safe, in the movement phase, if they choose to "walk". Other units are not safe in the movement phase if they move as a JP or Jetbike or Skimmer. We felt this made sense, and it gives my tau friend some viable options- though again, assault moves, even to assault, are included.

 

Were all well aware of the RAW, as I posted above, we simply choose to play it the other way.

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

You could argue that jump infantry while walking still have these huge kite-like jump packs on their back that still get blown about by the tempest