Icons why take them?

[Brother Nihm]

More like a true Chaos Player.. :D

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Well, I play Iron Warriors, and I'm paranoid, so that goes to show just how Chaos taints you :D

 

(Actually I was paranoid beforehand, and I sympathised with them. Plus they used to get Basilisks, and I like cannon just as much as the next man)

[Man Behind The Curtain]

actually if you look at the "chaos Space Marine" entry in the fluff unit entries before the picture section of the book.

There is an entry called "Chaos Space Marines" listed here are stats for 3 Types of "Chaos Space Marines"

 

Chaos Space Marines

Chaos Space Marine Chosen

Chaos Space Marine Bikers

 

Havocs terminators raptors etc are all ofcourse CSMs but NONE of them have the words "Chaos Space Marine" in front of their unit entry.

 

The only fuzzy section of the interpretation here is that Possessed utilise the words "Chaos Space Marine" are used in the possessed entry but NOT used in the biker entry.

 

therefore we can conclude that Bile applies

DEFINATELY to CSMs and Chosen

POSSIBLY to Possessed and Bikers either or both is unsure

 

These constrain the use of Fabius Bile's upgrade.

 

tbh it requires a house interpretation

 

but my circle of gamers play it as CSMs, Chosen and Bikers

 

mainly because giving it to possessed or terminators would be obscene

[Dan The Deamon]

I've seen my GW store allow players to use the enhancement on any marine unit in the book, i've also seen stores only allow it on basic CSMs. That's too vague to plan my army around, therefor another part of the chaos book goes unused.

[Cornelias]

the page with all 3 listed is from the background section, only 1 unit in the actual army list is called Chaos Space Marines (notice the use of capitals) and it only applies to them :)

 

i ran a Bile enhanced army for most of the last edition and some of 5th and always stuck to these rules.

[Man Behind The Curtain]

So Cornelias you wouldn't count

the unit entry that says quote "Chosen Chaos Space Marine" or "Possessed Chaos Space Marine"

?

[Cornelias]

no because Bile's entry would state Chaos Space Marines, Chosen Chaos Space Marines or Possessed Chaos Space Marines may be upgraded. there is only 1 unit entry that states "Chaos Space Marines" :tu:

 

if you take for example Lysander's "Bolter Drill" rule it could say you may roll failed "to hit" rolls with bolter weapons but that would leave a grey area, instead it specifies heavy bolters, storm bolters, bolters and bolt pistols.

 

would you allow telion to be an upgraded sergeant for a scout bike squad? it's a scout squad after all.

 

 

commonsense also tells you it just wouldn't be cricket to start building possessed with potentially 7 S and any other mark of your choice and anyone that feels that this was the intention simply has rocks in their head.

 

all that aside i pretty much consider myself a veteran of using enhanced marines and upwards of 1500 pts where you can cover Bile's frailties with a second HQ is actually a hell of a lot of fun :tu:

[Man Behind The Curtain]

Despite my interpretation of the rules (which by the way is chosen, CSMs and bikes) I only ever use CSMs with bile anyway as closecombat upgraded chosen are overly expensive and I have no biker models....And yes possessed Bile marines definately is not cricket.

 

Either way though I think the argument can be made for a lot of those squads as Chaos Space Marines and that Biles codex entry could sue some specificity (not sure thats a real word) such as "Standard Chaos Space Marines" or "Troops Choice Chaos Space Marines"

 

Or better yet if the codex didn;t refer to Chosen and possessed as "Chosen Chaos Space Marines" or "Possessed Chaos Space Marines"

[the jeske]

I dont understand this . There is only one unit choice in the codex that is called chaos space marines , where are people getting the whole biker/chosen thing ?

[Whitefireinferno]

Jeske it is because people have random bursts of stupid the only thing Bile tampers with is basic run of the mill Chaos Space Marines you know those things that are a Troops choice and are not one of the Cult choices. Bah people these days.

[Brother Nihm]

Or it could simply be a matter of not everyone seeing things the same way. It is not like GW writes all their rules so that they are perfectly clear.

[the jeske]

Or it could simply be a matter of not everyone seeing things the same way. It is not like GW writes all their rules so that they are perfectly clear.

 

I dont know , it clearly says csm in the rules . If by csm GW ment everything that is csm in the fluff we would get zerkers runing around with str 6 on charge . Am a RAW guy , if something isnt called a csm then it isnt a csm , the rules dont care what the fluff says.

[Brother Nihm]

I agree, I was merely pointing out that stupidity is seldom the cause of misinterpretations in this game system.

[Man Behind The Curtain]

the point is that multiple units are refered to as CSMs but that your example of a berzerker is one of the few things that is not refered to in the codex as a CSM

 

list of units NOT refered to with the term CSM:

Thousand Sons

Noice Marines

Plague Marines

Khorne Berzerkers

Chaos Terminators

Chaos Havocs

Chaos Raptors

 

List of units that ARE refered to with thwe term CSM either in the fluff entry or the points entry

 

Chaos Space Marines (in the fluff of the Chaos Space Marine section, under a list of types of Chaos Space Marines)

 

Chosen Chaos Space Marines (in the fluff of the Chaos Space Marine section, under a list of types of Chaos Space Marines)

 

Chaos Bikers (in the fluff of the Chaos Space Marine section, under a list of types of Chaos Space Marines)

 

Possessed Chaos Space Marines

 

 

It is due to this list and the inclusion of the words in their name that these 4 units are POSSIBLY eligiable and that others such as Legion marines ARE NOT.

[Cornelias]

this week i went undercover as a competitive player (which i'm not) in order to get an answer :lol:

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From: TheMole

Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 6:05 PM

To: US Customer Service

Subject: Throne of Skulls query

 

 

 

hi there i am planning enter an army into this years throne of skulls tournament and need a clarification on a rule before i make my list. i don't want to turn up and be DQ'd by the judges for an illegal list.

 

 

 

does Fabius Bile's enhanced rule enable him to enhance any other unit apart from the standard Troop choice "Chaos Space Marines" like possibly bikers or chosen? or would enhancing these other units lead be to be DQ'd?

 

 

 

many thx

 

 

The only squad that you can enhance with him is indeed the Chaos Marines. Sorry to be a downer my friend.

 

so that's the stance from GW regarding Bile in the Throne of Skulls tourney (which i myself am not entering i just wanted to see how they'd handle it).

[the jeske]

Where in the rules does it say that bikers/terminators/chosen/havocks are csm .

the entry for the whole unit does not have csm in it . the name of single models doesnt have the name csm in it .

Or am I just blind.

 

 

the fluff part puts all non cult non tank unit under the paragraf csm , but again fluff has 0 to do with rules. Zerkers are just as much [in the fluff] csm as csm .

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Where in the rules does it say that bikers/terminators/chosen/havocks are csm .

Page 26/27 under the "Forces of Chaos" Section (Containing statlines for each, suggesting it is rulesworthy). It lists Havocs, Chosen, Bikers and CSM's as "Chaos Space Marines". The rest of the Units, Termies, Zerkers, Lords and so on are under seperate headings.

 

Anyway, no-one was trying to actually use them like that. It was just a suggestion that if it was possible, it would make Fabius Bile a good choice as a HQ and actually give him a use.

 

And Whitefireinferno, I dislike having my musings on the Dex dismissed as being "random bursts of stupid". If you actually READ what it says in the Codex, we COULD have been right.

[Whitefireinferno]

Shao'o R'Vre yeah sorry bout that was pissed from arguein with some other lesser types on other places on B&c but yeah Its pretty clear what the rule ment but yeah some of the codex have silly things like that.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Shao'o R'Vre yeah sorry bout that was pissed from arguein with some other lesser types on other places on B&c

Rage isn't cool my friend. We all succumb sometimes, but it's learning to control it that makes us better people :)

[the jeske]

Page 26/27 under the "Forces of Chaos" Section (Containing statlines for each, suggesting it is rulesworthy). It lists Havocs, Chosen, Bikers and CSM's as "Chaos Space Marines". The rest of the Units, Termies, Zerkers, Lords and so on are under seperate headings.

yes that is the fluff part . where in the unit entries is the chaos space marine part ?

plus even at the end of it you have

csm unit type infantry

and then separate discription of bikers and chosen.

[Cornelias]

think it's pretty clear now (i hope) so to swing the discussion back on topic a few tweeks in Bile's actual rules would probably make him more popular and make his "mark" actually worth taking. ;) pairing his enhancements up with an icon of slaanesh basically gives you perma-furious charge which can be pretty useful.

 

eternal warrior would've been nice if they really didn't want him to have an inv save because of FnP and his weapon should really be a power weapon of some sorts. i learned from experience he's actually not too bad at big bug hunting etc. when you look at his weapon set up, his pistol while a bit underwhelming due to high AP fires 3 shots that wound on a 2+ and although his rod of torment doesn't stop armour saves he's still getting 6 str5 attacks on the charge that cause ID.

 

but i'm sure jeske will be happy to point out if your playing competitively there are far better choices and i only really played an army based on him to challenge myself and inject a bit of fun into my gaming after getting bored to the point of nearly losing interest :D

 

 

 

EDIT: finally "shock horror" myself and jeske were on the same side of the fence on this one! :P

[Cornelias]

slightly off topic but if anyone would like to see some of the mini's from my old Bile army i can grab them out of dusty storage and take some pics, was basically the same scheme as the red corsairs on with the red substituted for purple and this as the chapter badge.....

 

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa54/cornelias/chapterbadge.jpg