BaronTuman Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 So, the real question is this.... Does the new PDF supersede the printed book? Essentially they just "forgot" one page, I can hear the arguments now. Not even the copyright date or anything else has changed! Indeed, it even says "December 2004 Printing." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 So, the real question is this.... Does the new PDF supersede the printed book? Essentially they just "forgot" one page, I can hear the arguments now. Not even the copyright date or anything else has changed! Indeed, it even says "December 2004 Printing." They 'forgot' almost 2 thirds of the printed book. It's about 64 pages, and the PDF weighs in at around 25-26? Fair enough they were trying to trim it down to make the download smaller, but it is no excuse for removing pivotal rules in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 They didn't 'forget'. In the DH Codex, the Inducted Units rules are deliberatley covered over by pictures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 So.... am I not allowed to bring a squad of GKT and stick them in a Stormraven with my BA force? Geez, you aren't kidding, they did just cover the induction rules with pictures. wow Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 They didn't 'forget'. In the DH Codex, the Inducted Units rules are deliberatley covered over by pictures. I know, that's why i said it in inverted commas. Going by RAW, we don't have a FoC, so we can either 1. Field what ever we please, given it is within the points value for the battle, or 2. We cannot field anything, thereby meaning out codex is literally unplayable. Before you refer me to the BRB, read this from page 87 "The minimum and maximum numbers of each of these types of unit for each army are detailed on the force organisation chart of each army Codex book Shown is an example of one such chart, which is used by most armies for standard missions" Since this FoC is missing on this PDF, the PDF is either invalidated and we have to go back to the printed codex, or we can field an army consisting entirely of Grey Knight Terminators in Land Raiders. We can't claim objectives because we don't have troops choices, but we get GKT and LR spam ^_^ Also, since the clarification of what exactly counts as a Grey Knight for the purposes of the Grey Knight special rule is no longer in the PDF, then we must assume that every unit in the PDF that has 'Grey Knight' in it's name benefits from the Grey Knight special rule. Shrouded Land Raiders If GW are going to do a lazy effort at a PDF, then we should all abuse the rules while we can. If we can pull this in an official GW tournament, i'm sure they will take notice, and not do such a half- :D effort on a PDF again Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 As there is no page describing what a Grey Knight is anymore, does this mean that our special rules now apply to Grey Knights Land Raiders / Crusaders and Grey Knights Dreadnoughts? No! :D INP has it right. Each codex entry says whether or not the GK special rules on p. 3 apply to the unit. Of course, GW didn't bother to clarify any of the longstanding rules queries that the old codex still has. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 As I've said before, in the entry for Grey Knight Hero, Grey Knight Terminator, Grey Knights, and Grey Knight Purgation Squad, under the Special Rules heading, is the following: Grey Knights: Grey Knights are subject to the special rules detailed on page 3. No Shrouded Land Raiders, as units specifically state which are Grey Knights in their own unit entry. Also the argument about the Force Org chart is kinda silly... when in doubt go with the standard Force Org chart. Does the loss of the allies and induction system hurt? Yes... but we'll deal. I still think we're going to gain more than we lose when a new Codex comes out. Might have some rough months until it does, but that's life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbreaker Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 So, repairing rhinos! Finally! :D Oh, you're all angry, well I got my repairing rhinos! (that still cost 50pt and only have 1 firing point...) Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzbuckle Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 For what it's worth I just sent an e-mail to GW customer service voicing my displeasure with this move. I tried to be respectful while at the same time making sure that they knew I was a disappointed consumer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 The DH one im looking at doesnt have repairing rhinos... WH one? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandal Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Just the WH ones got it. The WH ones also no longer go open topped when your Inq. squad or stormies shoot out of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 This is ludicrous, and the only proper response to this is a stern letter, a cry of FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU-, and a declaration of Hereticus Abomini on those responsible. May the Emperor have mercy on their souls, for my pen shall not... and neither will the incoming lance strike Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 The repairing Rhinos and the not being open topped were already in the recent printings of the Witch Hunter codex. I bought my copy about a year ago and the transports are printed exactly as they appear in the PDF (right down to the Chimera and Rhino fluff being in the wrong spots). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aner_Dyfan Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Talking to some friends the other language ones still have allies in. It only seems to be the English one which is removed. In fact the assault cannon rules in the French one are different too, don't have any more details than that though. Still if the English one is true, then Daemonhosts are useless as they allow bugger all options for a Deamonhunter army. No fast attack and only orbital strikes for heavy support as all the other stuff is Grey knight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 Going by RAW, we don't have a FoC FoC is detiled in the Main Rule book. As our Codex no longer says differently, we use the standard one from the Main Rule book. So no issue there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Anyone upset with the codex updates should at least send a strongly worded email to GW customer service. I sent one in and was offered assistance at building "competitive" lists with just the naked DH codex. At least I got a personal response. Here is the last thing I sent: I appreciate the offer but that really can't make up for such a shoddy job on the codex update. As I own the printed codex I will continue to use this until such time as GW releases an updated DH book in print. I will likely put something in writing to GW HQ expressing my disgust as a longtime customer of GW product and let them know that I am done with new purchases. We DH players have been waiting a very long time for a new codex... this is definitely not what we expected. Again, I would like to thank you personally for your offer of assistance and realize that the decision to release a poor product has nothing to do with you. Thanks for responding. Again at least send an email. Costs you 5 minutes and we can't be any worse off than we are now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2443929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mechanicum Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 A friend of mine just had a tournament list with only 1 squad of GKT with a Grand Master in it get nuked due to no allies so, it sucks this close to the tournament though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I sent one in and was offered assistance at building "competitive" lists with just the naked DH codex. Pfft! :RTBBB: There is no competitive build for the DH without induction! I'd love to see what advice they had on offer. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
revnow Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I'm going to be very careful in saying this, but there is absolutely nothing that invalidates the printed dexes. If you download the dexes from GW you have to play with that one, if you have a printed dex you can play with that one. The copyright dates on both dexes are identical. We are not expected to print out the new .pdf to play games without official confirmation from GW, your hard copies are no less legit than the .pdfs. Tournaments will have to make their own individual rulings, but in common play it would be hard for someone to argue that a hard copy with an identical copyright date isn't legit. The GW uploads are incomplete copies, not replacements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xa0s Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I'm dismayed. I got s--tloads of the IDH army NIB about 1500 to 2000 points, and I decided to wait til the "new" codex comes up. With this... I'm dumbfounded and speechless. With that said, does this mean the printed codex (the book) is now null and void for any official tournaments? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xa0s Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Now, that's a weird timing on my post and your post, revnow, asking and commenting on the same notion of print versus pdf versions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I'm going to be very careful in saying this, but there is absolutely nothing that invalidates the printed dexes. If you download the dexes from GW you have to play with that one, if you have a printed dex you can play with that one. The copyright dates on both dexes are identical. We are not expected to print out the new .pdf to play games without official confirmation from GW, your hard copies are no less legit than the .pdfs. Tournaments will have to make their own individual rulings, but in common play it would be hard for someone to argue that a hard copy with an identical copyright date isn't legit. The GW uploads are incomplete copies, not replacements. Since the pages were renumbered, they are technically replacements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
- 7eAL - Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Having read through both 'updates', I see that it was completely unnecessary to take a break from the Inquisition Project in anticipation of a respectable product. Back to work, then ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xa0s Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Wow -- page 2 of the PDF IDH, 2nd paragraph under question "Why collect a Daemonhunters Army?" I would not be surprised there'd be players out there lawyering their way in to use the allies and the book version of IDH. Poorly executed on Games Workshop's part. They might have problems with the IDH players in tournament though most likely they'd be tossed out of the tournament, regardless. Wow, we're purely uh... -censored-. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Having read through both 'updates', I see that it was completely unnecessary to take a break from the Inquisition Project in anticipation of a respectable product.Back to work, then ... Well i'm going to try out the Pure Grey Knights Fandex this sunday in a 4000pts match. Maybe GW could take a lesson from the Inquisition Project as to how the codices should be Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/2/#findComment-2444246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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