bladeofregret Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Hopefully this will put some of the nonsense to rest: http://ottawagamer.blogspot.com/2010/06/de...nswer-from.html I called the number that he has listed and the rep said they honestly didn't know and that in the event of a tournament it was upto your organizer. and the reason they answered the way they did is because Ottawa said that the english one was the only one that didn't have the allies section, this has since been changed, so if the french, german, and japanese versions have been changed to match the english one. . . well then I would hazard a guess that "yep no more allies, sorry gardeners but your leafblowers no longer work" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2444984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 ]No, they aren't. In order to be the "latest printing," they must (by definition) be printed. Again, the BA Codex was both demonstrably updated AND printed in WD. Our codices have simply been redacted and posted online. That's a big difference. yeah but when they printed them in WD there were at least 3 different versions of the dex. with different rules/costs and options. that was never fixed till they made the online version [which counted as an official most recent printing] same happens here. DH/WH dex on GW official site does count as the newest version of the dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH34RB0T Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Also, to follow up, we here will be using the physical codex for our tournaments and NOT the PDF. Thanks! John Hollingsworth Customer Service Specialist Tournaments. With an s. Indicating that their 'Ard Boyz ruling will be the norm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 This just in, my email reply from Hobby Service: RE: Daemonhunters PDFFrom: HobbyService (HobbyService@games-workshop.com.au) Sent: Friday, 25 June 2010 12:26:42 PM To: Brock Dalton-Jones (b.dalton-jones@hotmail.com) 1 attachment att63c81.bmp (156.5 KB) Good morning, Thanks for writing in. It's safe to say that always the most recent printing/publication of a document takes precedence. Those hobbyists with older, printed copies of the Daemonhunters codex may still decide to utilize the ally rules in their games though it's likely as the rules are now removed that either new rules will be added to the website in time or that they are simply no longer 'codex legal' As always, check with your tournament organizer for competitive games and be sure to speak with your opponent if you have any doubts about which rules to use. Finally, it should be noted that it's likely we will ultimately re-do the Daemonhunters and Witchhunters codices down the track though they remain as competitive as ever in 5th edition Warhammer 40,000 with their current listings and product range. Thanks again, feel free to contact us again if you have any further queries. Games Workshop Hobby Service Centre Australia Phone: 02 9829 6111 Email: hobby.service@games-workshop.com.au Webstore: www.games-workshop.com Looks like they are admitting to us getting an eventual update, but dropped no hints as to when this could occur. Hobby Service has declared that the PDF is the latest print of the codex, making our current codex (in relations to Allies, Adversaries and Inducted units) is now as 'codex legal' as using the 3rd edition Space Wolves codex Hope that is enough proof for you all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH34RB0T Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Hmmm... That's odd. That email you received basically contradicts every other one I've seen so far... I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but the fact that it's from Australia GW might be significant... Maybe they removed the rules to update them? Include new units and what not... It might be possible, seeing as how they explicitly mentioned the rules might be added to the site at a later time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 though they remain as competitive as ever in 5th edition Warhammer 40,000 with their current listings and product range LoL... I mean, seriously? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 This is why you never bother writing to GW. The people they've got answering emails and phone lines have no concensus, either. Just work it out with your friends, or ask the TO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 This is why you never bother writing to GW. The people they've got answering emails and phone lines have no concensus, either. Just work it out with your friends, or ask the TO. Odds are you ended up in a Callcenter and people there just lied. I work in one... it really opens ones eyes. Pretty much everything and their dog relays work to callcenters in West, East, North, South and around the corner. And what do we have to do to get our minimum wage? LIE :P Follow protocols or lie! Pretend you're the firm, pretend they're not present etc etc. Thank god i'm going back to learn to teach in september. I tire of the lying and the misery. :D But in any case... most likely they improvise when they get questions like that. Maybe GW doesn't have a clue or maybe they just don't bother to pass on the info to the rank-and-file in that section but they most probably pulled an improvisation act out of their hat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I don't know, those that have BT as allies can still take them due to the rule in the C:BT, its just more abusable due to there being no restrictions on how to do so. Have fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I'd chalk it up to GW OZ, I sent them this email: Hi This is the first time I've emailed you guys but I felt you should know that I feel that your handaling of the daemon hunters and witch hunters codex has been lacking in customer service and support. It would be understandable if the upload version of thesecodex's had been the same as the printed versions, as time constraints obviously limit you're ability to write a white dwarf update for most codexs. That said I feel that if the time was put into this codex to re organize the core rules and the page numbers, then a little more effort should have been taken to update the rules for certain items within this codex, specifically those items that have an equivalent within another codex. If this is not to whom this email should be adressed I would be very grateful if you could please forward this to the appropriate personage. Yours sincerely And got this reply? Good morning , We're not sure we understand your enquiry, so please let us know if our response doesn't answer it. The Daemonhunters and Witchhunters codices remain as competitive as never in 5th edition of Warhammer 40,000 and thus we only amend what needs to be amended. This isn't to say that that these codicies will never receive updates ultimately - we invest a lot of time, research and effort into maintaining a brilliant range of models and rules for you to utilize in your games and are always improving what we offer. Always be sure to keep an eye on the website and White Dwarf for new release information as it happens with regards to this as these are our official two channels we announce new release information to the hobbyists. Thanks for writing in, again feel free to contact us again if you have any further enquiries. MY personal favourite.....the Daemon hunters and Witchhunters codices remain as competitive as never in 5th edition HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 lol freudian! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeofregret Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 It's GW in general. They don't tell their customers anything, do you think they tell their customer support staff anything? I called the number that was listed in the return email Ottawa got that everyone is waving around like a holy text. THEY HAVE NO CLUE! there has been no official word, only that if the english one is the only one thats different then the foriegn language ones are correct but if they've been changed to match(which they have) then it's the english one thats correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Went into GW hobby centre in Melbourne two days ago. I asked about either =][= codex getting a "real" update or maybe some models. The guys there said =][= needs no update as they can take allies and the models are just fine. AND I AM THE QUEEN OF FRANCE!!!!! I only hope that the Dark Eldar don't get the same...did I just jinx that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 @Astrator: Others have hit your other points just fine. So I'll tackle just this one. GW doesn't require players to purchase the rulebook or a Codex to play Warhammer, either. I know plenty of people who personally own neither and yet play the game. Heck, you aren't even required to purchase models; you could scratch-build an entire army, if you so desired. This is patently false. And it makes me wonder whether you actually play Warhammer. :) GW does "require" you to purchase the books to play the game. Maybe you don't (or your friend) doesn't, but somebody has to own the books! How else to you play at your friend's house? How do you play at the game store? I've never been to any game store -- GW or otherwise -- that will let you "borrow" the for-sale books to play the game. That's the product they're trying to sell! They won't let people manhandle them indefinitely if they're not buying it! What kind of business would do that?! And no, you can't scratch-build an entire army, even if you so desired. Why don't you go talk to B&C member BOBMAKENZIE about his experiences at a GW store in Toronto. Among other armies, he plays Orks and Skaven, and he's had scratch-built models of his banned from the store because they didn't use enough GW parts. And the rule for every tournament I have ever seen and heard of absolutely requires, in the rules, that conversions be "majority" GW/Citadel models/parts. And outside of conversions, the models must be GW models or they can't be used at all. Now, there is considerable leniency for units for which a model doesn't exist, but for units that do have official models, there is rarely such leniency. For example, poor BOBMAKEKNZIE had his scratchbuilt Skaven Hellpit Abomination banned until he "fixed" it "properly" until it looked more like GW's Skaven "design". Another example, at least one tournament run by the guys at BoLS a few years ago disallowed Ork Trukks and Ork Battlewagons that were scratchbuilt once official GW models existed. (I don't know of their BoLSCon follows the same rules, but I wouldn't be surprised.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The emperors chosen Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I just got an email from John Hollingsworth stating: "That was a mistake! It is being worked on as we speak!" make of that what you will Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I just checked again and the WH PDF has had Induction removed in a reformating. :) It's official, we're on our own two feet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrator Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 This is patently false. And it makes me wonder whether you actually play Warhammer. :) GW does "require" you to purchase the books to play the game. Maybe you don't (or your friend) doesn't, but somebody has to own the books! How else to you play at your friend's house? Firstly, you are taking my response out of context. I was replying to the argumentt that GW doesn't require players to purchase WD to play. My response was tongue-in-cheek, and I certainly didn't intend to make any of the above situations sound like the average player. How do you play at the game store? I've never been to any game store -- GW or otherwise -- that will let you "borrow" the for-sale books to play the game. That's the product they're trying to sell! They won't let people manhandle them indefinitely if they're not buying it! What kind of business would do that?!Really? You're going to try to convince me that you've never been to a game store which maintains a store copy of the rules? Because, honestly, I've never been to one which hasn't. And no, you can't scratch-build an entire army, even if you so desired. Why don't you go talk to B&C member BOBMAKENZIE about his experiences at a GW store in Toronto. Among other armies, he plays Orks and Skaven, and he's had scratch-built models of his banned from the store because they didn't use enough GW parts. And the rule for every tournament I have ever seen and heard of absolutely requires, in the rules, that conversions be "majority" GW/Citadel models/parts. And outside of conversions, the models must be GW models or they can't be used at all. Now, there is considerable leniency for units for which a model doesn't exist, but for units that do have official models, there is rarely such leniency. For example, poor BOBMAKEKNZIE had his scratchbuilt Skaven Hellpit Abomination banned until he "fixed" it "properly" until it looked more like GW's Skaven "design". Another example, at least one tournament run by the guys at BoLS a few years ago disallowed Ork Trukks and Ork Battlewagons that were scratchbuilt once official GW models existed. (I don't know of their BoLSCon follows the same rules, but I wouldn't be surprised.) Yes, 'Ard Boyz requires Citadel models and mostly-Citadel conversions. But 'Ard Boyz games make up a tiny percentage of the WH games played, and while my comment was meant to be facetious, it would be entirely possible for someone to scratch build a whole army for friendly play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I did mention tournaments. And I do mean all GW tournaments, not just 'Ard Boyz. But in my experiences, GW stores are very restrictive. Again, go ask BOBMAKENZIE. There are models he built that he can't use at all, tournament or no. He simply cannot put them on the table at his GW store. This might seem outrageous, but it is real. So if your "friendly play" requires you to be at a store ... even then you might be hosed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 I just got an email from John Hollingsworth stating:"That was a mistake! It is being worked on as we speak!" I just checked again and the WH PDF has had Induction removed in a reformating. It's official, we're on our own two feet. Ha ha! LoL. There you go, the 'mistake' corrected. Now does anyone still seriosuly think this isn't both intentional and an update? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 gw is judging our interests in the =I= to see it would be viable and I say just give me a Sisters of Battle Codex! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I like how the say in the first pages that it's easy to integrate WH units to your existing army, blah blah blah... Sloppy GW as usual... Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 And yet everything else still sucks..........Oh well GW theres another army I've lost the desire to by models for I hope your happy with yourself, but from now one at the very most all i'll be being is the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2445994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 26, 2010 Share Posted June 26, 2010 gw is judging our interests in the =I= to see it would be viable and I say just give me a Sisters of Battle Codex! DING DING DING! Correct for 20 points. It's most likely what they are trying, and if that is their aim, then we are probably looking at a timeframe of 1-2 years minimum for new codices if this is the case (which i'm sure we all want one sooner) Seeing as i already use a pure Grey Knights force, i'm entirely unaffected by the PDFs, but i still think the lack of Induction is just stupid. Fair enough they wanted to wipe out Allies for a while now, and i heard they aimed to remove cross-referencing between codices in 5th edition, but i honestly thought that it wouldn't happen until we got shiny new books and model ranges to go with it, not a payload of nerf bombs in the form of this PDF. Pure Grey Knights are already incredibly difficult to win with, but sometimes, when i can draw against one of those IG 'unbeatable' lists, it just makes your day :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2446303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighLord74 Posted June 26, 2010 Share Posted June 26, 2010 Ok, alot uf us have known "Allies" was not going to be kept forever in light of the 5ed Rulebook, but removing Inducted units was a low blow. I could see/understand keeping only the existing inducted units, ie not allowing Valkyries (as much as i'd like them for my StrmTrprs), NO Ironclad Dreds, No Leman Russ variants, etc. I could also understand something along the lines of certain "IG-specific/special Rules do not apply to Inducted forces", not using SM special Characters (Like Chronus or Telion), etc. But removing the Inducted all together...... Plus the fact that if you actually read the PDFdex from front to end they tease (or lie depending on your POV) to the reader by stating in the "Why Collect" section that you can still Ally & Induct units, but then provide NO RULES to do so..... as for the Inducted being a crutch, almost all of the DH & WH players I know use them not as a crutch but because the co$t of a pure WH/DH force is even more prohibitive than other armies, so filling it out with a (at the time) less expen$ive IG Squad or two to be able to meet the points of the game(s) without going bankrupt paying $70+ for EACH GK-PA Squad ($35 per 5 modelsx2 for normal 10-man squad+cost of spec weapons). The inconsistancy with responses to inquiries & vague answers (while normal for GW) is just as frustrating. GW-US says the lack of allies (& Inducted?) is a mistake, GW-Australia says "Tuff Poo, LIve with it the army is fine as is in the PDF"??? NOw you start running into an annoying trend I see where players have disagreements over which "EMail" is more official "Well mine came from so & so & he writes the FAQs", "My answer came from the president of GW-Crappistan so it's official".... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2446364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltnot Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 I must say that I personally don't mind going back to Codex: Sisters of Battle. My only issue is that in C:SB, you had options to field Frateris militia, preachers and all sorts of other goodies. In that respect, I was using inducted imperial guard to represent those units. Now I'm kinda stuffed since I can't do that anymore. All I have now is a half painted army that I know how to play well but is no longer legal, and I dislike the idea of going all mech. I suppose I just have to look into jury rigging something with stormtroopers to get me by for the next two years whilst we wait for GW to sort out their s***. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204873-pdfs-are-up/page/4/#findComment-2447467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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