PH34RB0T Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 "No model with psychic powers may be fielded as an ally to the Black Templars and they will not fight as allies with to any army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knights Space Marines. (emphasis mine...) Is that enough to Rules Lawyer my way into keeping my GK allies? I realize that now the DH codex no longer gives rules for allying, but... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 i would say that your quote quite clearly states that GK can ally with the BT. having an outdated codex obviously has it's uses for us at some points!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I'm personaly going to continue to use the Hardcopy codex I PAID for until GW comes out and states that this pitiful upload was an update or we get a brand new clearly updated codex, I suggest you do the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Screw that, i'm using the B&C Grey Knights fandex until we get a new one, my local group have looked over it and agree to let me use it. Maybe Games Workshop could learn a thing or two from it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Clearly you are free to use whatever rules you want in your games ... provided that your opponents also agree with you. That said, the RAW has changed. Allying is gone. It's no longer legal to do so. Anybody can deny your desire to ally Inquisition units just by pointing you to the latest legal version of your codex. There's nothing we can do about this, folks. It's time to move on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Clearly you are free to use whatever rules you want in your games ... provided that your opponents also agree with you. That said, the RAW has changed. Allying is gone. It's no longer legal to do so. Anybody can deny your desire to ally Inquisition units just by pointing you to the latest legal version of your codex. There's nothing we can do about this, folks. It's time to move on. How do you write a list with no FOC then number 6? clearly there have been cut/paste issues here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 You use the standard FoC chart in the BRB. Or whatever FoC applies to whatever 'mission' you play. There is *no* issue here... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 actually there is as there is no standard FOC in the brb. the brb specifically tells you that you need to refer to your codex for the FOC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Hmmm... I'll have to bust out the book later to check, but I'm sure there's a standard FoC in the main book. :/ If not, then I'll be fielding only GK HQ's with retinues. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 nope no FOC for everyone, just an example of what to look for in your own codex so have fun with the Greywing for the next 6 months. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2443976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calypso2ts Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Of course if the BRB refers to the Force Org in your codex, and the uploaded document does not have a force org...it must not be a codex, since all codices have force orgs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 that works for me then as I own a DH codex and a WH one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I sincerely hope you gentlemen aren't serious. :) This is more outrageous than Chaos Marine players arguing that daemons aren't daemons. Just because GW nerfed your army doesn't mean you should go ballistic. For starters, if you're a DH player and haven't noticed how crappy your army was two years ago the minute 5th edition hit the streets you've nobody to blame but yourselves. I've been saying all along that the only way to play DH anymore was by inducting large amounts of IG. If you'd been doing that, you'd have 90% of an IG army to play with right now. So no worries on that front. And if you haven't been doing that, you've been playing with a very weak army all along and there's nothing about the new trimmed online codex that changes anything for you at all. You can still play your old, non-inducting IG army just fine. (And if you've been disagreeing with me on my assessment of the non-IG DH army builds, continue to disagree and prove me wrong! Several of you appear to have some level of success at your local stores at least. Nothing about the new codexes changes anything for you.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 that works for me then as I own a DH codex and a WH one Lol go ballistic! :P If GW cannot be bothered to do 5 mins. Seriously GW has NO excuses. And i've had a tendency to defend them even on the DH codex. But now it became too pathetic. If they cannot be bothered to but a few lines of text in a codex, copy paste a few of the updated rulings and deliver a 'finished' pdf, they could just as well not have put it up. Lazyness... and there is no excuse for lazyness :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I sincerely hope you gentlemen aren't serious. ;) This is more outrageous than Chaos Marine players arguing that daemons aren't daemons. Just because GW nerfed your army doesn't mean you should go ballistic. For starters, if you're a DH player and haven't noticed how crappy your army was two years ago the minute 5th edition hit the streets you've nobody to blame but yourselves. I've been saying all along that the only way to play DH anymore was by inducting large amounts of IG. If you'd been doing that, you'd have 90% of an IG army to play with right now. So no worries on that front. And if you haven't been doing that, you've been playing with a very weak army all along and there's nothing about the new trimmed online codex that changes anything for you at all. You can still play your old, non-inducting IG army just fine. (And if you've been disagreeing with my on my assessment of the non-IG DH army builds, continue to disagree and prove me wrong! Several of you appear to have some level of success at your local stores at least. Nothing about the new codexes changes anything for you.) You're actually serious? If Games Workshop came along and basically destroyed the army you liked to play with and had spent hundreds of dollars on, you wouldn't be just a tad pissed off? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 You're actually serious? If Games Workshop came along and basically destroyed the army you liked to play with and had spent hundreds of dollars on, you wouldn't be just a tad pissed off? You may have noticed I moderate this forum, Firedrake28. :D Grey Knights are what got me into Warhammer, and it's still my largest and most-loved army. But surely you've noticed how little attention the DH have gotten since 3rd edition 40K? You make it sound like the nerfing of the army is news! :) I assure you, it most certainly is not. The army has been pretty weak ever since 4th edition ... but in my estimation at least playable and reasonably competitive. 5th edition ruined all but one competitive build from the army. Like I said, that was two years ago. This reality should have hit home to every DH player back then. Pleading ignorance now makes no sense. And now that the promised PDFs have been put online, and the expected removal of inductions/allies have finally made their play, why is everybody all of a sudden in a tizzie about it? We all knew -- or should have known -- this was coming. The DH army was moderate at best through all of 4th edition 40K. In 5th edition it became a terrible army (outside of inducting IG). And GW has all but ingored the army entirely for something like 8 years. I think GW has "destroyed" the army plenty fine and they've done it multiple times in multiple ways over multiple years. There is nothing new here to report. There is no reason now to complain that the world has come to an end. I've spent hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours laboring on my DH army. I'm right proud of it. I've even had a significant amount of success with them. But I've never drunk the Kool-Aid that the army was any better on the tabletop than it actually is at any given point in its history. It is now at the nadir of its capabilities. So what else is new? The decline has been obvious, easily predictable, and constantly approaching. Deal with it. I have. B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Also keep in mind this decline is traditional of any army that hasn't had an update in two editions. As newer Codices get updated with new options to fit the existing rule-set, the older ones naturally suffer as they haven't been tailored to fit in the rules yet. This is why people often recommend to newer players to pick an army you like the fluff of and back-story of, as rules come and go. I imagine everyone will be singing a different tune once the actual new Codex actually appears on the shelves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortanix Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Also keep in mind this decline is traditional of any army that hasn't had an update in two editions. As newer Codices get updated with new options to fit the existing rule-set, the older ones naturally suffer as they haven't been tailored to fit in the rules yet. This is why people often recommend to newer players to pick an army you like the fluff of and back-story of, as rules come and go. I imagine everyone will be singing a different tune once the actual new Codex actually appears on the shelves. I couldn't agree more, my daemonhunters are on a shelf at the moment because of the joys of multiple armies, which often happens when you've been in the hobby a while, but grey knights were also what got me into the hobby thanks to the best friend i've ever had. I still get them out occasionally for a quick game, yes they underperform, but who cares when you can look this cool doing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 You may have noticed I moderate this forum, Firedrake28. Congrats. :P Grey Knights are what got me into Warhammer, and it's still my largest and most-loved army. But surely you've noticed how little attention the DH have gotten since 3rd edition 40K? You make it sound like the nerfing of the army is news! :lol: I assure you, it most certainly is not. The army has been pretty weak ever since 4th edition ... but in my estimation at least playable and reasonably competitive. 5th edition ruined all but one competitive build from the army. Like I said, that was two years ago. This reality should have hit home to every DH player back then. Pleading ignorance now makes no sense. And now that the promised PDFs have been put online, and the expected removal of inductions/allies have finally made their play, why is everybody all of a sudden in a tizzie about it? We all knew -- or should have known -- this was coming. We knew the Allies rule was leaving, but most of us expected it to disappear when the new Codex hit the shelves so there'd at least be some compensation (new units, new Codex, hopefully not completely terrible rules, new models, all that). This just takes a Codex which already needs attention like a starving dog and then basically gives it a kick for good measure. I'm a highly competitive player - I'm well aware of the boat that Codex: Daemonhunters is in right now and the various other boats it's been in since it was written. We've taken an army that can barely function through the use of Inducted Imperial Guard and taken even that away from them rendering the book useful perhaps only as toilet paper. Deal with it. I have. B) Again, congrats. Regardless of what people say, we still have a right to be annoyed that GW did something negative to one of the armies that people love. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We knew the Allies rule was leaving, but most of us expected it to disappear when the new Codex hit the shelves so there'd at least be some compensation (new units, new Codex, hopefully not completely terrible rules, new models, all that). This just takes a Codex which already needs attention like a starving dog and then basically gives it a kick for good measure. QFT. ^_^ I was wrong. My stance was firmly that GW *wouldn't* update or change the Codexes in any way when they made them PDFs... I didn't forsee them ripping the last vestige of use out of them at this time though. If we're honest (and the lack of Apoc formation, Planetstrike stuff, Missions in the Battle Mission book, etc, wasn't enough), we knew we were being shafted. We even wrote letters to GW, here on this board about it. We knew Allies would go. But as said above, it was expected to come hand in hand with new rules. Not like this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2444661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemoniac Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 Sorry to drag it off topic a touch, I've heard mention about the "No alies' thing but nothing substantial (been out of the game for a couple of years...), what's the go with the new rules? If that's true, it's screwed my plans of a WH/Black Templars army lol! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2446829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 The C:BT still states you can take Allies, so you can still take them. No rules for it means that you can decide how you do so. Remember though, that they are Allying to the BT not the other way round. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2446935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 I dont see how thats possible with the pdfs. That part of the BT Codex is the same as arguing that the fluff part of the space wolves codex lets them field Leman Russ tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2446947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH34RB0T Posted June 27, 2010 Author Share Posted June 27, 2010 Not really, because the Black Templar codex specifically states that they can ally with Grey Knight Psykers, and every Grey Knight is a psyker, so... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2447019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 just posting it here too, the guy who runs the GT's has said that the printed codex is official. thats as much authority as is ever going to be thrown at this guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/204881-allying-with-black-templar/#findComment-2447317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.