Nordic Pantheon and Space Wolves

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

We know or at least theorize that Logan Grimnar is the wolf version of Odin

and that his champion Arjac can be considered Thor

and also that Lukas is definetly Loki

however this is where it gets tricky

 

Ragnar? possibly Tyr

Ulrick no idea

Njal also analogous of Odin with his raven however could be someone else.

not really sure on Wolf Guard Durfast of Mordak

or Wolf Guard Ranulf

theres also Wolf Lord Kyrl Grimblood

 

food for thought and some to break away from the countless customization threads

 

what are your thoughts on this?

[Primarch015]

logically ragnar could be baldur and ulrik could be heimdall.

[Guganation]

Wouldn't Leman Russ be Odin? Odin did also disappear..unless I'm confusing the marvel comics Odin with the actual mythos..hmm

 

 

Also

"logically ragnar could be baldur and ulrik could be heimdall."

This

[Requiem of the Wolf]

See the analogy allready breaks down. First and foremost..Russ would be the closest Analogy to Odin.

 

Now there is no doubt,that several of the Space Wolf Characters are built around being similar in aspects to some of the gods.

Lukas is definitely based around the tales of Loki, Especially in the earlier parts of the Edda,before he started taking things a bit far.

I honestly think that Arjac, would be more analogous to Heimdall or Magni.

Both for his duties as a Guardian,and the fact that those were what was emphasized. As well,though my memories are fuzzy on this specific case,He was also the one that the Norse called on for manly duties regarding home and hearth, which blacksmithing would fall under.

 

I think that Ragnar would be closest to Thor in all honesty,as far as he has been portrayed in the novels and the codex.

Logan and Njal both would fit into Aspects of Odin without a doubt...Both as seer and as warrior.Then again that isn't surprising either...Odin was allways described as a very complex individual,one with many many duties in the Pantheon.

[Sarapham]

Tyr fits with Ragnar in that they are both great warriors, however Tyr is noted as being very old and wise which contrasts to the impetuous Ragnar therefor I would almost call Logan Tyr if anyone. Ragnar = Balder is a big no no since Balder in the Poetic Edda is pretty much the God of being kind, nice, sunshine and sparkles e.t.c so you who have played Too Human are duped :devil:. Heimdal and Ulric fits rather well as they both can be seen as "Watchers" as well as old an wise.

 

The role of Oden in Space Wolf myth would actually go to the Emperor himself who is called The Allfather by the wolves, which is a common name for Oden. In a way that makes Russ Tor in that he is the impetuous son of Oden and the Champion of Humanity. Arjac is only Tor in the spirit of his Hammer as their personalities are not very alike.

 

Njal could perhaps be seen as Njord, the vanir God of sea and storms.

 

Loki is obvious.

 

These are the clear connections as I see it.

 

@Guganation: Oden does not dissapear until he dies at Ragnarök so you are probably thinking comics.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

although he was known as the wanderer so that may have inspired guganations thinking.

[Primarch015]

Tyr fits with Ragnar in that they are both great warriors, however Tyr is noted as being very old and wise which contrasts to the impetuous Ragnar therefor I would almost call Logan Tyr if anyone. Ragnar = Balder is a big no no since Balder in the Poetic Edda is pretty much the God of being kind, nice, sunshine and sparkles e.t.c so you who have played Too Human are duped :). Heimdal and Ulric fits rather well as they both can be seen as "Watchers" as well as old an wise.

 

The role of Oden in Space Wolf myth would actually go to the Emperor himself who is called The Allfather by the wolves, which is a common name for Oden. In a way that makes Russ Tor in that he is the impetuous son of Oden and the Champion of Humanity. Arjac is only Tor in the spirit of his Hammer as their personalities are not very alike.

 

Njal could perhaps be seen as Njord, the vanir God of sea and storms.

 

Loki is obvious.

 

These are the clear connections as I see it.

 

@Guganation: Oden does not dissapear until he dies at Ragnarök so you are probably thinking comics.

 

never knew that about baldur. my norse god info comes purely from marvel comics so you can see how i would relate the two there. baldur in marvel is the young heir to the throne of asgard after thor, wields a sword and can act on impulse due to his inexperience/age.

[Sarapham]

Tyr fits with Ragnar in that they are both great warriors, however Tyr is noted as being very old and wise which contrasts to the impetuous Ragnar therefor I would almost call Logan Tyr if anyone. Ragnar = Balder is a big no no since Balder in the Poetic Edda is pretty much the God of being kind, nice, sunshine and sparkles e.t.c so you who have played Too Human are duped :). Heimdal and Ulric fits rather well as they both can be seen as "Watchers" as well as old an wise.

 

The role of Oden in Space Wolf myth would actually go to the Emperor himself who is called The Allfather by the wolves, which is a common name for Oden. In a way that makes Russ Tor in that he is the impetuous son of Oden and the Champion of Humanity. Arjac is only Tor in the spirit of his Hammer as their personalities are not very alike.

 

Njal could perhaps be seen as Njord, the vanir God of sea and storms.

 

Loki is obvious.

 

These are the clear connections as I see it.

 

@Guganation: Oden does not dissapear until he dies at Ragnarök so you are probably thinking comics.

 

never knew that about baldur. my norse god info comes purely from marvel comics so you can see how i would relate the two there. baldur in marvel is the young heir to the throne of asgard after thor, wields a sword and can act on impulse due to his inexperience/age.

 

Ah I see, yes then Ragnar would fit nicely. However the "real" Balder should be left out of all discussions about great warriors.(He is even killed by Loki so kinda makes it even harder for him :RTBBB: )

[WolfGuardVortek]

Balder was killed by a spear made of mistletoe thrown by his blind brother, who was guided by Loki. Mistletoe being the only thing that could harm him. In other words Balder was killed by treachery

[Sarapham]

Balder was killed by a spear made of mistletoe thrown by his blind brother, who was guided by Loki. Mistletoe being the only thing that could harm him. In other words Balder was killed by treachery

 

Which is a wonderful example of Asgard humor/favorite pastimes... throwing deadly weapons against people you think are immortal (but kids now learn that it can be dangerous as Balder dies :)). Sounds perfectly like how Space Wolves would have fun.

[ragnor of the iron wolf]

if grimnar is to be odin then ulrik would be mimir, hes one one who tought odin this magic

[Commissar Volker]

I agree with Sarapham.

 

Odin = The Emperor

Thor = Russ

Njord = Njal

Baldur = Lady boy, so not a Space Wolf

Loki = Lukkas

Tyr, or possibly Hermod = Ragnar

[Wispy]

You guys are trying to find analogues for characters where their are none.

 

Only Arjak and Lukas can be considered having analogues.

[sonofblood]

Wispy, while not all of them may be real Analogues, the base is there for the rest of them(or most the rest). It's obvious that the Emperor is Odin and Russ can be considered Thor for reasons already stated in this thread.(Like the Emperor being called the Allfather.)

 

Here are my thoughts.

 

Njal = Njord

Lukkas = Loki

Grimnar = Tyr

Ragnar = I wouldn't place him as one, perhaps not a god but parallel to a norse hero?

Ulrik = Heimdall

Canis = See Ragnar

Bjorn = I could see him as Heimdall also or maybe even Tyr.

 

Russ could also be interpreted as Odin due to the wolves Geri and Freki.

[Wispy]

No, space wolves myth has nothing to do with norse, despite one being inspired by the other.

 

This is a waste of time because Njal, Logan, ragnar, and ulrik are all character's in their own right and were never designed around the purpose of recreating the Norse pantheon. You can't find analogues because their are none.

 

Lukas and Arjak are brand new to 5th edition and it's obvious Phil Kelly looked to the most popular figures in Norse mythology for inspiration in designing 2/3 of the books newest characters. Is canis something, too? No, it would appear he doesn't have an analogue either.

[Sarapham]

No, space wolves myth has nothing to do with norse, despite one being inspired by the other.

 

This is a waste of time because Njal, Logan, ragnar, and ulrik are all character's in their own right and were never designed around the purpose of recreating the Norse pantheon. You can't find analogues because their are none.

 

Lukas and Arjak are brand new to 5th edition and it's obvious Phil Kelly looked to the most popular figures in Norse mythology for inspiration in designing 2/3 of the books newest characters. Is canis something, too? No, it would appear he doesn't have an analogue either.

 

This is not a thread trying to state that the Space Wolf Characters are exact copies of the Gods and trying to be an "exact truth which cannot be denied in any way". As you say some characters are directly based on Nordic figures, but as we have said in this thread there are other parallels as well which are more of less obvious, and I would like to add the Emperor as the Allfather to Lukas and Arjac in directness. I for one cannot see the great harm you seem to see in discussing that. Even if the parallels may be pointless in themselves I (as a teacher of Religion in a "Norse" country) see this as a wonderful thread simply for some enlightenment of Norse literary history which can often be misunderstood.

[Wispy]

I don't see any danger in this discussion... Rather it is just my perspective that there are no direct analogues, and it's kind of silly to be making lists that mix and match characters and gods.

 

And to truly dash this silliness, if Odin is the emperor, then how is it Leman Russ is accompanied by Freki and Geri?

 

The answer to that, of course, is space wolves myth is not the same as Norse, though similar in theme and structure.

[Sarapham]

I don't see any danger in this discussion... Rather it is just my perspective that there are no direct analogues, and it's kind of silly to be making lists that mix and match characters and gods.

 

And to truly dash this silliness, if Odin is the emperor, then how is it Leman Russ is accompanied by Freki and Geri?

 

The answer to that, of course, is space wolves myth is not the same as Norse, though similar in theme and structure.

 

 

As I said.. we are not pointing out water-tight evidence to end all evidence. But to answer Freki and Geri followed Tor as well once in a while by the virtue of Oden wanting to keep an eye on his rather hot-headed son, and Hugin and Munin are not in all the stories. There are often contradicting stories in different sources among the Norse sagas, and there is still no one who actually knows if any of the Gods described in the Eddas or Sagas where truly worshiped as a full on religion (Tor and Frej worship seems plausible with the evidence at the moment as well a a slight hint of Tyr/Tiwaz).

 

My long winded point with this is that from the perspective of the common Fenrisian we could see the Space Wolf heroes as Gods in the essence of those discrepancies of Norse myth and godly characteristics. To finish off.. Norse myth is very fun to read, if not only for the humor and my knowledge of the fun in Norse myth makes me enjoy my Space Wolves even more, hence why I enjoy the parallels and gladly help a thread containing them.

(PS. I should not try to make sense at 4am :) )

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

its just fun and ment to insight thought amid all the how to customize threads. get off the high horse get some mutton and a barrel of ale and chill.

[Roland Durendal]

Wispy, while not all of them may be real Analogues, the base is there for the rest of them(or most the rest). It's obvious that the Emperor is Odin and Russ can be considered Thor for reasons already stated in this thread.(Like the Emperor being called the Allfather.)

 

Here are my thoughts.

 

Njal = Njord

Lukkas = Loki

Grimnar = Tyr

Ragnar = I wouldn't place him as one, perhaps not a god but parallel to a norse hero?

Ulrik = Heimdall

Canis = See Ragnar

Bjorn = I could see him as Heimdall also or maybe even Tyr.

 

Russ could also be interpreted as Odin due to the wolves Geri and Freki.

 

I agree with this for the most part. Russ as Odin makes sense, especially his return for Ragnarok (or the Wolftime).

 

The one I disagree with is Grimnar being Tyr. Tyr is the god of courage and honor in battle, in comparison to Odin who was more aligned with the concept of brutal (or berserker) in battle. Tyr was older than the rest of the Gods and as such was considered wise in council and in control of his emotions. Plus he was the one who step forward to put his hand in Fenris' mouth so that the beast could be bound, thereby losing his right arm (which in historic warrior cultures is extremely important for the right arm was the sword arm, the left was the shield arm. In effect he was sacrificing his ability to fight for the betterment of all the gods...and to bring latin into this, there's a reason warrior's who could fight effectively with their left hand were considered vile or evil...the latin word for "left" is "sinister". :cuss )

 

I would say Bjorn would probably be the closest to Tyr in terms of personal sacrifice for the betterment of the whole. That or my Wolf Claw (on the left arm of course!)/ Storm Shield Thunderwolf riding Wolf Lord...Lord Tyr :thanks:

[Grey Mage]

We know or at least theorize that Logan Grimnar is the wolf version of Odin

and that his champion Arjac can be considered Thor

and also that Lukas is definetly Loki

however this is where it gets tricky

 

Ragnar? possibly Tyr

Ulrick no idea

Njal also analogous of Odin with his raven however could be someone else.

not really sure on Wolf Guard Durfast of Mordak

or Wolf Guard Ranulf

theres also Wolf Lord Kyrl Grimblood

 

food for thought and some to break away from the countless customization threads

 

what are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts- theyre not all direct correlations.

 

Ragnar is certainly not Tyr, Id actually have him as one of Thors sons, hes apparently quite handsome for a marine, he might be Baldur.

 

Njal is certainly an "aspect" of the all father, but certainly not the whole kit. Neither is Logan for that matter- hes not calculating enough in some ways. He may have been the god of beserkers, but he wasnt one himself- he was the gold calculating general, who cared only for victory, and all his troops, even his generals, were nothing more than pawns. Doesnt mean he doesnt care, just that it takes second place to survival.

 

Though they certainly would be warriors after the gods own hearts :tu:. Wich is good to see.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

as said before Ragnar cant be Baldr. Baldr was the god of peace love happiness light and beauty. none of which describes Ragnar

[Grey Mage]

as said before Ragnar cant be Baldr. Baldr was the god of peace love happiness light and beauty. none of which describes Ragnar

True, but he could easily be the embodiment of Modi or Magni, or both.

[Simo429]

The Wolf Blade are very alike to the Warriors three in Marvel

[Adarul Greystalker]

I've always thought that the Emperor's image in the eyes of Fenris was based on the myths of Odin. Not only is he called the "Allfather" because of his role as father of the primarchs, but as the most powerful human psyker to have ever lived, he fits Odin's role of "Master of the Runes" perfectly as well. Of course, the correlation is far from perfect, but that's to be expected. If a writer wanted us to simply point to a character and say, "Here, this is Odin," they would've had him trade his eye for wisdom and hang from his own spear, pinned to the World Tree for three days (Or pick any number of other myths that isn't represented in 40k fiction). Clearly, no such character exists, but that doesn't mean that we can't point out the similarities between these "Allfathers."

 

Russ has some qualities of Thor, but also some qualities of Odin. Many references exist in descriptions of Russ to the myths of both deities. The story of Russ and the kraken-father, for instance, as well as the names of Russ's brother-wolves, Freki and Geri (also remember that the Allfather is said to have two ravens named Huginn and Muninn, the Eyes of the Allfather, so the names of their servant-beasts indicate that both figures are tied to Odin). Unfortunately, different sources depict Russ in different ways. Some fiction represents him as an anti-intellectual, impetuous brute (certainly not the "Odin" type, but if you ask me, these are apocryphal accounts), while some maintain that his barbaric ways belie a wisdom and appreciation for learning that seems much more appropriate for the master of a legion and a man with the intellectual capacity of a primarch. I'll be waiting for Prospero Burns before I pass final judgement. We'll see which gods' disposition Russ seems to share most closely then, I suppose.

 

As far as the current Space Wolf characters go, the comparisons, in my opinion, are much more shallow, but some reasonable ones have been pointed out. However, one thing that I'm not sure has been mentioned is that Grimnar's name is very similar to one of the names of Odin, "Grimnir," which he used when taking the form of an old man in the Grimnismal, so clearly some similarity to Odin is intended.