Tell Me All About......

[Bannus]

Building upon and complimenting the Elemental Styles of armies is the general build of the army. While there are numerous variations to any given theme, I've placed them in some rather simplistic categories as follows:

 

1) The "Gun Line" Army (also known as the "shooty" army)

 

2) The Mechanized Army (also known to as "the Rhino Rush")

 

3) The Biker Army (a favorite of White Scars armies)

 

4) The Drop-pod army (a favorite of Raven Guard armies)

 

5) The "Balanced" Army (most favored by Water players and employs a little of everything)

 

6) The Assault Army (or close combat army)

 

If you wish to discuss a variation that is not specifically mentioned here (or applies as part of the elemental styles), let me know. It may fit as a variation within one of the preexisting topics or I can generate one if it doesn't mesh well with what we already have.

 

 

The threads on the elemental styles focus on how the army army plays (and a bit on builds favored by each style), while these threads will focus on on favored builds and tactics based on the actual build of the army. In the end, I hope we will have a good foundation of raw material to build upon.

 

So while the elemental threads focus on tactics first and then builds, these threads will focus on builds first and then tactics.

 

What we need to know here is what works and what doesn't work for a particular build of army - the genius and folly.

 

This particular thread focuses on the "Gun Line" army.

 

Normally, I would post links to other extant threads that relate to the subject, but time is a bit tight this week, so feel free to post links to related topics within the tread and I'll move them to the first post later.

 

I appreciate all your help!

 

Let the discussions begin.....

[Koremu]

Gunlines are only worth playing if there are Fortifications on the battlefield; thus, Techmarines (whose Bolster Defences turns Ruins into Fortifications, for all intents and purposes), are key.

 

Thunderfire Cannon, being a very large gun and a Techmarine, are an obvious choice.

 

All of that said, I personally would not Gunline unless the specific Scenario being played (such as All-Round Defence) lent itself too it.

 

Gunlines do not work for general open gameplay because the randomisation of all-comers with the three core mission and deployment options utterly shafts the army build way too often.

 

 

P.S. I'm very glad to see less of the rampant xenotry that is the "Air/Fire/Water/Earth" builds.

[chapter master 454]

Speaking as an earth warrior I shall add to this.

 

Unit builds focus on Master of the forges as HQs due to their superior shooting power and bolster power. Armies often include minimum troop choices slot filled with tactical squads due to their more durable nature. One note is that some can be combined with razorbacks for extra firepower when HS slots are filled along with Elites and needing more firepower. Heavy support choices can range from the predator to devastators for ranged power however land raiders are not a choice because most of their points and value comes from being a mobile bunker that marchs on objectives. Elites need to 'shooty' so venerable (or standard) dreadnoughts do good, however BA players may need to feel the urge to try venerables in C:SM before saying furiosos are good...-ahem- however sternguard can also be used but I don't encourage it, techmarines or dreads that can shoot (decently) are your elite choices.

 

As for tactics, if your gun-lining just blow the living emperors PJs out of them. Make use of your long range weapons to cause enemies to avoid it by going long ways where your close support units like dreads may function fully. If ended in a stalemate between enemy tanks (preds vs. preds for example) then advice is if you get first turn try and destroy them quickly, if not place predators in positions that will make them function more as close range support for when the enemy closes the gap. If both are gun-line then enjoy the most boring match ever, in this case I would suggest making use of mobile fire platforms like dreads to elimate their heavier weapon platforms like predators so you my get yours into position.

 

An example army list for you all to see, it forms a gun-line quite strongly and is something I would play in a tournament if I ever played in tournaments. (points: 1750)

 

Master of the forge: conversion beamer

2 gun servitors with plasma cannons

 

master of the forge: power weapon

5 tech servitors

 

2 venerable dreadnoughts, both with extra armour, assault cannons and DCCWs while one has a Heavy flamer and the other a stormbolter

 

Techmarine with full-servo-harness

5 tech servitors

 

2 10 man tactical with plasma cannon and flamer

 

3 Predators, all with extra armour, storm bolters and hunter killer missles. One has a TLLC, one has LC sponsons while two have HB sponsons.

 

It's done me proud and does things I prefer doing: shooting, shooting and...I think shooting! :lol:

[spartan249]

The goal of the gunline is to destroy the enemy's mobility and ultimately destroy the enemy through movement control, locally superior firepower, and trapping. For this end, Marines have a few toys available including Thunderfire Cannons, Dreadnoughts, Razorbacks, Land Raiders, Whirlwinds, and Predators, to name a few. While the goal and the tools are simple enough to understand, the application of the gunline's ranged firepower in an actual battle is much tougher to execute properly than it may first seem. While a match with a novice to battle may only require that the guns be placed up in a corner and fired, most battles with a gunline will require the user to mold the battlefield to suit their purposes, using passive threats, the terrain set up, and using proactive elements to goad the opponent into running into traps.

 

Marine gunline armies require two conditions to be met.

1. There must be as many guns you can fit in as little of the FOC as you can, preferably on platforms that are able to relocate.

2. There must be units in the list that are able to roadblock and delay advancing forces, buying you time to fire your weapons.

 

How one goes about fulfilling these conditions depends on your preference in units, and there are plenty of options in the marine codex to choose from.

- A good place to start with a gunline army is the Devastator Squad. With the ability to take 4 heavy weapons in one heavy support slot, Devastators are a force to be reckoned with, both in price and in ability.

- Another sensible choice to include in a gunline is the Thunderfire Cannon. With a very long range, multiple highly effective anti-personnel shots, the ability to slow down advancing forces, and the ability to improve ruins and fortifications, TFCs bring quite a few assets to the army for a very cheap price.

- Dreadnoughts are a noteworthy consideration in a gunline list due to it's status as a walker and, therefore, its ability to move 6" and still fire all onboard weaponry. They can be taken as either fully ranged combat oriented units or as versatile gap-fillers in the army, though I recommend that they be outfitted with two heavy weapons.

- Land Raiders deserve a mention here because of the many roles that it can fill in a gunline army. First, the LR acts as a very durable gunship. With two twin-linked lascannons, a twin-linked Heavy Bolter, and the Power of the Machine Spirit, LRs contribute a good deal of firepower to your shooting, even on the move, which is a very important feature to note. Second, the LR carries infantry models. This allows the LR to also take on the role of counter-assault protection given the fact that the LR comes with an assault ramp. Third, LRs are good protection for troops to hide in should things turn south. Fourth, LRs can take an aggressive role in your army should the need arise, driving forward and disgorging the contents on whatever target needs to be engaged, firing all the while. This sort of versatility is hard to come by in a model, and is definitely recommended to at least be tried in early renditions of gunline lists.

- Assault Terminators are an unlikely consideration in a gunline army, but one that I think fill an essential role in a gunline army, that of assault prevention and protection. As good as you may be at defending against close combat, the fact of war is that bad things will happen and if you wish to be successful, you must plan for all eventualities and be prepared to deal with it accordingly. To this end, Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield equipped Terminators are highly recommended because of their ability to deal with just about anything in the game. If the gunline is built properly, any enemies that have made it into close quarters with the army are most likely going to be there because they were able to shrug off or dodge the army's doubtlessly powerful shooting. Such contingencies require a knockout punch to be delivered in close combat, and there are few that are better at that than TH/SS terminators.

 

Whatever units you choose to use in the end, the application of said units will be just as important, if not more so. There are a few considerations you must be aware of in order to successfully apply the firepower contained in the gunline army.

- First consideration is terrain. Before a game even starts, you should first look at the game board and take mental notes on the terrain setup, things like choke points, open zones, hiding places, ambush positions, firing lanes, movement corridors, and so on. As a gunline army, you will want the side with adequate hiding places, little to no choke points, and 2 to 3 clear firing lanes if possible. Most desirable in a board edge or side is the presence of open zones followed by choke points or movement corridors leading to the other side. The goal of this observation is to see which side of the board is more restrictive of movement and LOS, then forcing the opponent to deploy on the most restrictive side.

- Second consideration is your army's formation. Once you have chosen your side/corner, it is imperative that you attempt to set up two major fire lanes that intersect on any open zones that the opponent will be forced to move through. If this is not possible, then the next best formation is two major fire teams with the counter-assault element in the center, ready to respond to threats and pressure. The reason why two fire teams are desirable is because this opens up possibilities for flanking the opponent, which can be suitably deadly against unprepared armies.

- Third consideration is the opponent's formation/composition. It is important to keep track of where your opponent's army elements are and will attempt to head at all times. Going back to the first consideration, you must attempt to see possible routes and feasible movement lanes, then project the opponent's army onto the terrain. Where will his main advance be going through? Approximately how long is it going to take for his units to get from his side to one's side? Are there any alternate routes he can take if he feels pressured into doing so? Can it be covered by your weapons, or will it provide him a safe zone? If so, how far is that safe zone from your firebase? Are there plausible deep strike locations that could threaten to cause severe harm to you? Does the opponent's army warrant weariness of deep striking threats? These sorts of questions must at least be on the front of one's thought process before turn 1 begins. One must attempt to see the game from the opponent's perspective, to try to plan out how to advance safely against oneself with the opponent's army. With this knowledge, one can plan accordingly and be prepared for any gambits the opponent might try.

- Fourth consideration is of the opponent's specialties and army tendecies. Knowing the opponent's codex will help greatly in attempting to intuit the opponent's battle plan. What plan will he be attempting to enact to secure victory? What parts of his army are crucial to that plan's success? What parts of the opponent's army are going to hinder you from applying your firepower on the opponent's weaknesses? In this phase of the pre-game preparation, it helps to step into the opponent's shoes and attempt to play his army against yours. How would you counter your firebase? What would you send against your counter-assault? How would you circumvent the firing lanes that you are going to set up? Thinking about these things will help you sort out target priority for your weapons, taking out threats to your firepower first, then taking out your opponent's assets.

 

 

 

As an example gunline army, I will post my current DreadRaider iteration.

 

2k: Dreadraiders!

HQ

- Master of the Forge: 100 pts

- Chaplain Cassius: 125 pts

Troops

- Scout Squad: 5 SRs - 75 pts

- Scout Squad: 5 BP&CCW - 75 pts

Elites

- Assault Terminator Squad: 5 TH/SS - 200 pts

- Land Raider: - 250 pts

- Dreadnought: TLLC, ML - 145 pts

- Dreadnought: TLLC, ML - 145 pts

Heavy Support

- Dreadnought: TLLC, ML - 145 pts

- Dreadnought: TLLC, ML - 145 pts

- Dreadnought: TLLC, ML - 145 pts

Fast Attack

- Land Speeder: 2x TML/MM - 200 pts

- Land Speeder: 2x TML/MM - 200 pts

- Land Speeder Storm: 50 pts

 

Here, the Land Raider doubles as a gunship and counter-assault unit, and thus stays in the middle of my formation. The Dreadnoughts form the bulk of my weapons platforms. The Speeders either come from reserves or deep strike as appropriate to flank enemy positions or hunt dangerous targets that are out of reach from the dreadnoughts. The Land Speeder Storm hides in a corner until the game nears the end, at which point it will turbo boost about and attempt to capture an objective (Usually on the home side).

[Bannus]

Some excellent observations so far. Well done, both of you.

 

I can't remember now who it was, but someone here was posting his views on an Assault on Black Reach army he had assembled (which is in essence an Earth army) and had learned wehh how to use it against Tau and perhaps a few others. If the author of those posts is reading this, please add your input here!

[chapter master 454]

I like the idea of the dreadraider list but feels too heavy going on 'counter assault'. While an important feature, I would like to point out you shouldn't need to counter assault. The land speeders are a nice idea, they are far too fragile in earth armies. As for the scouts: good luck with objectives. While nice their ranged power is so limited due to BS3. Your dreadnoughts too are not exactly helping, I would suggest making them all TLACs instead of ML/TLLCs. That would free up points, I would also suggest dumping cassius for another MotF with power weapon, not as durable but it can really surpise people when suddenly 2 power fist attacks come from nowhere along with a flamer and TLPP. Also adds repair power which adds earths durable nature.

 

Your list is more a Mud or lava list rather than earth in my opinion. Not enough stable platforms that mount serious power. My list could be up-gunned to 2000 as well but it would add another tactical squad with a razorback. For all those out there: razorbacks are effectively a poor-mans predator (sort of like how autocannons are seen as the poor-mans plasma).

 

And the contents of Black reach being used against tau isn't that hard. I believe at that points level the tau can't get enough of their feared weapons in thus you can take them out that way, the MM dread forming a solid suit killer/devilfish killer while the terminators pummel the tau with a DS storm bolter blitz. The tacticals use the frags to take care of kroot while the kraks from it help further support anti-tank duty by the dreadnought. The captain joins onto the tacticals and if anything charges them he can add in extra CC power to make sure the assaulters get lost. Just saying in my own opinion on that matter there.