Fluff Questions on Daemonhosts

[Chengar Qordath]

So, what has been established with Daemonhosts so far is that there are several different levels of binding (once-bound, twice, and thrice); the more bindings a Daemonhost has, the easier it is to control. However, bindings also restrict a Daemonhost's power, so a thrice-bound Daemonhost has less access to his power than a once-bound one.

 

What I'm wondering about it how the power of a Deamonhost measures up to that of an actual Daemon, and to what degree bindings restrict that power? Are Daemonhosts inherently weaker than Daemons with no host, and if so by how much? Also, how much does the strength of the host matter in determining how strong the Daemonhost will be? How much does the Daemon's strength matter?

 

Also, on a related note, could an Inquisitor or other servant of the Imperium make use of an Unbound Daemonhost? While the lack of binding would result in there no being no control, I could easily think of situations where a Daemon might decide to work alongside a servant of the Imperium. Maybe it's a Khorne Daemonhost who cares not from whence the blood flows, or a Slaaneshi one that thinks working alongside this little human woule be fun, or Tzeentchian that is simply advancing a long and insanely complicated scheme, and all flavors of Daemonhost would like the opportunity to make a loyal servant of the Emperor fall to Chaos and/or take out some of its rivals. To my mind, any such arrangement would ultimately be temporary; even if the Daemonhost decides to play along with the Imperium for a while, it is ultimately a being of Chaos. So, would it be fluff-plausible to have an unbound Daemonhost working for the Imperium?

[xa0s]

I would be more inclined to see the Daemonhost at the end screwing the Imperium with the last laugh, unless if bounded at the very last minute at the Inquisitor's gamble.

[Inquisitor =D=]

What I'm wondering about it how the power of a Deamonhost measures up to that of an actual Daemon, and to what degree bindings restrict that power? Are Daemonhosts inherently weaker than Daemons with no host, and if so by how much? Also, how much does the strength of the host matter in determining how strong the Daemonhost will be? How much does the Daemon's strength matter?

 

Daemonhosts are not always weaker than an unbound daemon. To my understanding the "power" of the host and the daemon itself are what truly make the difference. The better the host body is prepared, the stronger the runes and such, the better the combination will be. Also the strength of daemon makes a worlds difference. I mean if you go and slap a nurgling into a host its gonna be weak as can be as opposed to say a Daemon Prince (Cherubael).

Well lets take Cherubael as an example here... summoned unbound he Destroyed a Chaos Warlord Titan. Obviously he is weaker as a bound daemonhost, that is not to say he is weak. Example B; In the Ravenor series theres a connecting short story "Thorn Wishes Talon" which features a thrice-bound Cherubael fighting off and destroying "Many" daemonhosts of the enemy's making, and while it does not give actual numbers you can tell its a lot of them.

So the moral is "Bigger Daemon+ Well Prepared Host= Doom to the other guys!

 

 

 

Also, on a related note, could an Inquisitor or other servant of the Imperium make use of an Unbound Daemonhost? While the lack of binding would result in there no being no control, I could easily think of situations where a Daemon might decide to work alongside a servant of the Imperium. Maybe it's a Khorne Daemonhost who cares not from whence the blood flows, or a Slaaneshi one that thinks working alongside this little human woule be fun, or Tzeentchian that is simply advancing a long and insanely complicated scheme, and all flavors of Daemonhost would like the opportunity to make a loyal servant of the Emperor fall to Chaos and/or take out some of its rivals. To my mind, any such arrangement would ultimately be temporary; even if the Daemonhost decides to play along with the Imperium for a while, it is ultimately a being of Chaos. So, would it be fluff-plausible to have an unbound Daemonhost working for the Imperium?

 

It is a possibility but Unbound I beleive the Host form would start to deteriorate quickly. I remember that being mentioned in the Eisenhorn series. And no, its not above a daemon to "assist" a throne agent to further its own ends. (See Eisenhorn and Ravenor series of books.)

 

=]D[=

[Chengar Qordath]

Daemonhosts are not always weaker than an unbound daemon. To my understanding the "power" of the host and the daemon itself are what truly make the difference. The better the host body is prepared, the stronger the runes and such, the better the combination will be. Also the strength of daemon makes a worlds difference. I mean if you go and slap a nurgling into a host its gonna be weak as can be as opposed to say a Daemon Prince (Cherubael).

So, preparation of the host matters for things beyond how much the Daemon is bound? Presumably, this means that there also superior and inferior ways to create a Daemonhost; some methods make for stronger Daemonhosts, regardless of later bindings.

 

Also, how much would the host body's attributes matter for a Daemonhost's strength? Would a physically strong body make for a much stronger Daemonhost? Would a psyker turned into a Daemonhost have more skill with warp manipulation than a non psyker? Or would the host body's attributes be fairly insignificant when measured against the strength of a Daemon?

 

It is a possibility but Unbound I beleive the Host form would start to deteriorate quickly. I remember that being mentioned in the Eisenhorn series. And no, its not above a daemon to "assist" a throne agent to further its own ends. (See Eisenhorn and Ravenor series of books.)

As I recall all Daemonhosts have some deterioration issues; the human body is simply not intended to be in continuous contact with a denizen of the Warp. However, as I recall these issues are fairly long-term (at least from a human perspective); the host body's deterioration is measured in decades or centuries. Of course, a lot probably depends on how well the body is prepared; a carefully prepared host probably lasts a lot longer than one made with a hasty, sloppy ritual or a random person the Daemon possesses after it's original host is destroyed.

 

Glad to see I was not too off-track on the issue of a Unbound Daemonhost helping the Imperium; Daemons are fairly self-serving, so if one thinks that an arrangement with agents of the Imperium would serves its own ends it will work alongside them. Like any alliance of convenience, the arrangement would not last long past the point where it ceased to be beneficial to the Daemon. Of course, given a Daemon's perspective, a temporary arrangement could last for centuries and be part of a scheme the Daemon has been working on since the Horus Heresy. Consider how long Cherubael spent working as Eisenhorn's semi-ally before Eisenhorn finally got Cherubael thrice-bound.

 

Of course, when it comes to Unbound Daemonhosts, it seems quite possible that any such arrangement would end with the Throne Agents involved falling to Chaos before the Daemon got around to turning on the Imperium. Willingly working alongside the forces of Chaos is pretty far down on the slippery slope or Radicalism; even extremist Xanthites are adamant about being control of any Daemonic items/entities they utilize rather than letting them act freely.

[xa0s]

If I recall correctly, the incubula of Ravenor's made out of entirely brass materials. Apparently, it never has aged/deteriorated til its armor was breached and the daemon went to emperor-knows-whewre free after being bounded for a very long time.

[Inquisitor =D=]

I've been curious myself as to wether or not the strength of the host matters as it is never made clear in the books. If you remember the host just before Cherubael's "final" host was a ship's astropath, but even that began to deteriorate at a rapid rate. Whereas his "final" host was physicaly fit, non-psychic, and as open minded as a career executioner. So its hard to say which matters more, though it would seem the more fit the better...

 

Makes ya wanna e-mail Dan Abnett doesn't it?

 

=]D[=

[Chengar Qordath]

If I recall correctly, the incubula of Ravenor's made out of entirely brass materials. Apparently, it never has aged/deteriorated til its armor was breached and the daemon went to emperor-knows-whewre free after being bounded for a very long time.

There seems to be a fair amount of difference between an Incubula and a Daemonhost though; the incubula in the Ravenor books needed to be actively controlled by a psyker and paid off with sacrifices before it would do anything.

 

I've been curious myself as to wether or not the strength of the host matters as it is never made clear in the books. If you remember the host just before Cherubael's "final" host was a ship's astropath, but even that began to deteriorate at a rapid rate. Whereas his "final" host was physicaly fit, non-psychic, and as open minded as a career executioner. So its hard to say which matters more, though it would seem the more fit the better...

 

Makes ya wanna e-mail Dan Abnett doesn't it?

 

=]D[=

Just double-checked that passage in the Eisenhorn book, and it seems like the Astropath host was not really deteriorating; it was just in terrible physical condition to begin with, and then took some damage from going up against a fairly powerful Ordo Malleus Inquisitor and then Eisenhorn.