Do you have faith in GW making DA codex any good?

[Chaplain Killmer]

Well maybe all of the new space marine codices are just a test for a complete change of the rules for our beloved marines armies. As I see it, they finally stopped balancing every unit in the game against the space marine like they did in the past. That way we always needed to be unflexible to maintain ballance. So if you look at the "vanilla" codex they did something really good this time - they expanded the tools of our trade and showed that marine vets and characters are something to fear. This aspect was completely missing over the last few editions. Now a master or a captain of space marines is something that can hit and damage almost everything in game.

 

Then the Blood Angels one, the finally put some rules behind the marines are attacking with fast tank spear heads to split the enemy open. I even like the ok lets drop the landraider right into the enemies heart aspect - but not for the BA's but for all space marines. Its exactly how they pictured marines to attack. The rules didnt support that fluff at all.

 

I hope that we get a nice new codex with more than just Deathwing and Ravenwing as our flavour givers and as SG said the hunt is something nice but well its not really sailing our boat. Lets just not hope JJ will spoil it again.

[krewl]

I for one have a good feeling about a future DA codex.

 

The recent codexes (I count SM, SW, BA, IG and Tyranids here, Orks only slightly less so) are all very well done.

 

Yes they have over the top units/models, but in one codex they build flexibility. Playing one of these codexes will give you the option of making several totally different lists, that can all get along. No longer do they have "The One Build To Rule Them All" in a codex and some fluffy stuff that actually sucks on the battlefield, so no one uses that.

 

It's a sounds business strategy aswell. Mister A likes the BA and has models for one type of list (Say classic rhino's with tacticals. He can expand his army to be Dreadnought heavy, tank heavy, jump pack heavy, all very different in playstyle, look and feel, and still his beloved Blood Angels. That makes him buy more stuff within his one codex. The army is never done and keeps growing and keeps him interested.

 

Same for Mister B, who like him his Space Marines. He adds a vulkan counts as and plays tacticals in rhino's, MM speeders, dreads in drop pods.. then he plays bikers and adds a Khan counts as, he can now build a bike heavy list with over the top command squad, very different in playstyle again. They bore him eventually and he adds scouts in a speeder storm for different options. See the pattern?

 

Orks: Cult of speed style, Battlewagon boys, horde boys, etc

 

Nids: MC spam, T6 hordes, deepstriker maniacs in T2 in your face, endless hordes of spawning gaunts, all in one codex.

 

All these are from one codex and play in very different styles, and all can compete (At least somewhat) in the current level.

 

So in my opinion there is no power creep, there is a new default power level where these codexes are at, and older codexes are not on that level. DA have only a few successfull builds, and most are because of our unique bits. (Deathwing/DeathRaven and Ravenwing). But look at Sisters, Dark Eldar, necrons, they have codexes that force you to play one or 2 builds as they are the only ones who can come allong with the new power level.

 

So I feel the new codexes are balanced, just not against the older ones. They have a new style and flexibility that (if done propperly) will translate into a great DA codex with plenty of army builds you can take to a tournament and do ok with (Barring luck of the dice and your generalship).

 

Getting DA up there again, in the same idea as the other dexes have:

 

- I feel that upping the Ravenwing powerlevel somewhat (Skilled rider... :P ),

- Inserting now default weapon profiles,

- Some more flexibilty in Deathwing configs (A la Space Wolfs, maybe a bit less) and e.g. better deep strike scatter a la Decent of Angels.

- Ld 10 and some proper psycher powers

- re-insert special characters of old

- Some DA only Mortis variants (Not only Twin autocannon)

 

This is all pretty well known and obvious stuff, not hard to come up with, and it would not damage the DA style and image into silly-land. It will put DA back up there on the level with the others. Now that there is no longer a ban on a truckload of special characters, we can have asmodai back, and a Vet Sarge Namaan upgrade and things like that.

 

If I have to ignore a quad plasma deep striking dreadnought for that because it silly I'll take it.... No one forces SW players to play with thunderwolves... no one will force you to use any sillyness. (Might be 1 unit of elite jetbike plasmacannoning veterans though...)

(Wait, what am I saying.. I WANT the quad plasma cannon dread please!) :tu:

 

We interupt this rant annoy you and generally make things irritating, this is getting much to silly!

 

So in short, yeah I feel GW is on the right track now. Sad thing is they are NOT updating stuff fast enough, that's a slight bummer for those waiting for a propper re-do (Like my DA or GT.) But untill then my termies are playing LoganWing (And doing quite well actually)

[Mystic Lemur]

I want rules for Cypher and the Fallen, a la some sort of Lost and the Damned comeback. It doesn't have to be a huge part of the codex, and they could even do it the way the DH codex did the rules for adding Daemons to other armies. As much as I hate to admit it, the Fallen really is our thing. Sure they only come around once in a century or so, fluff-wise, but, fluff-wise, mechanized Guard are rare too. Besides, with the focus of the novels being on the DA pre-heresy I expect to see that as the focus of the 'expanded' fluff.

 

As for our "LOLZ" unit, I'm hoping for the Rock. ;) :P

 

I have faith in JJ and I hope they give him another go. I have faith that he can make the best codex possible given the constraints set by GW. As long as GW doesn't radically change direction again, we will be fine. -_-

[Ronin_eX]

After the last few disappointments I really no longer have the energy to get my hopes up. I did last time and that turned out pretty badly in the end. I just want them to finally do something with us that isn't the same old formula dating back to 1996 when Angels of Death came out. I loved that book but it has been over a decade and the Dark Angels have had so little done with them. And while I don't want Mat Ward levels of silliness I'd like some individuality and uniqueness brought back in to the chapter, even if it requires a retcon or two to do it. I've read the same fluff for too long and I want something new and exciting to capture my imagination again. But each new release has been a disappointment and each new release has done little to stop the fluff stagnation 14 years in the making.

 

But in the end I fear we will just get another direction change just in the nick of time to hamper our codex because each new codex seems to be more and more over the top. The way GW developers think they will eventually get fed up with the direction and backtrack leaving whoever gets the cut-down treatment high and dry. And part of me thinks that this is the fate meant for the Dark Angels for several editions to come. But maybe I've just grown (even more) cynical about the whole thing. :P

[Grim_Reaper46]

I would love a codex that is relatively elite and hard to play with. I say that as the traits of the dark angels seem to lend better to a veteran player who uses tactics and not just power-spam to play on the table. Saying that, i doubt we will get it as GW don't want to make a product which they can't peddle to every 10 year old that walks through the door of the store.

 

A few shiny new toys would be great, some new/different upgrades for some of our existing moels would be nice, but some completley new rules to improve the staying power of our marines would be fantastic.

 

Al

 

Exactly what he said ^^^

 

Hope is the first step to disappointment. Dark Angels will be another beta codex once again. We all know it. GW does not care anymore about their customers, but only their shareholders. Since selling models is all based on the rules being the bottom line of their main stream of income. If GW had some brains, instead of selling the books which is like 1% of their profits.

 

They could instantly update the damn rules online, selling models instantly that once sucked in rules. All the codex's are becoming more streamline, less fluff in the rules, less of a personality being simply generic. Hell even the front covers look more cartoony,ghetto. You don't even need to think anymore, just move your models forward and shoot.

 

I hate the current DA codex so much I just wanna piss on it,soak it in every chemical in existence, then burn the book, and then burn the ashes, again burn the ashes of the ashes. Then soak the ashes in gasoline, then burn that too. Until not even ashes exist. Video it,upload it on youtube then send a link to GW expressing my anger. That's how much I hate the DA book.

 

Point is they took EVERYTHING that the dark angels that made them unique, who they are, having their own niche. Good ole GW just straight up said F--- the Dark Angels giving all the other chapters goodies the DA once had. First clue who wrote the DA had no idea knew nothing about the DA was when they took out Asmodai? I mean Dark Angels most badass chaplain. Seriously axing him that pissed me off.

 

One prick in the SM codex can make his army stubborn...idea I should melt him too along with DA codex. Space wolves can make a whole damn terminator army. Oh that just nailed the coffin for DA. So depressing, now read DA players are using SW rules ^_^ for their deathwing? So you can have the satisfaction of winning? I'm sorry that is sad and pathatic all wrapped in one. Have you people lost your minds...sign* nvm.

 

What happened to the good ole days where DA and SW players ever crossing paths they will get in their kitty cat fights,hiss at each other then battle. The truth is the people who made 40k great merging fluff,rules having every codex to have their own niche,flavour are the orginals, their all gone. Even andy chambers works for blizzard. Tells you something how much GW really cares. Now we have all these cocky people, who write crappy rules who don't really care but having a simple paycheck.

 

I have to play with my 3rd edition DA codex to actually have a CHANCE to win a game, thats how pathatic the current DA codex is. People just start going back, looking at the old codex's they actually have character. Seriously. Btw Line of Sight is just gay & retarded.

[RayJ]

I can understand your frustration, Grim_reaper46, but it should be pointed out that jervis Johnson (writer of the 4th Edition Dark Angels codex) has been the author of EVERY Dark Angels codex, all the way back to Angels of Death.

 

I don't think it's a matter of him not knowing the chapter. I think it's just a matter of him not caring all that much about game balance (and trying to take the game in a less competitive and more fluff-centric direction).

 

As for the rules in the 5th edition codices, I don't think you're giving them proper credit. Each 5th edition army has advantages and weaknesses, and in comparison to each other (and the 5th edition core rules) they all operate quite well. It's true that 4th edition armies are finding it harder to work in 5th edition as each army comes out, but that is more because the new armies are built with these new missions and rules in mind. The game requires armies to have troops that are either cheap (and numerous) or pack more punch than they did in 4th edition.

 

Also, while Dark Angels have a hard time keeping up on the battle company front, we do certain things better. We do all-terminators better than Space Wolves. Sure, their individual terminators are slightly better, but they are not fearless, and are prone to running off the table. They also pay a higher premium for the ability to take terminators as troops and thus put fewer models on the table. Dark Angels smoke launchers are the best in the game for the time being, and our cheap venerable dreads give us some very durable support units. It's not all doom & gloom around here, but you definitely need to separate yourself from a decades-old mindset and work within the new framework.

[Blitzkreig]

But Thunderwolf Calvary and the Flying Dreadnoughts really hurt... like... WDF?

Sanguinary Guard are alright, I guess, for their "cool factor", and an Angel chapter with ultra-high standards should best be represented by... Angelic armor?

 

My opinion on the Thunderwolf Cavalry - They should have just been Wulfen, change unit type to beasts, remove the wargear options, make a badass Wulfen Character to replace Canis and viola! No more stupid space marine wolf riders!

[Isiah]

I just don't like it. I fully expect the next DA codex to fall into this vein, and I'm prepared to be disappointed by it. But that's just me. All the DoW kidz seem to be loving it, so good for them.

 

Sadly I agree. The game has certainly been 'sensationalised' for want of a better word. But maybe it needed it . Nothing lasts forever as it was, new gamers must be recruited or diverted from other sometimes outlandish game systems (tabletop and screen) as this is the competition that GW are up against.

 

I just hope it isn't too 'wild' for the DA -- we've seen Wolf-mounted marines and deepstriking landraiders... what's left :) ?

 

Cheers

I

[Octavulg]

Actual Angels.

 

Alternately, Bike Knights.

 

(The Deathwing will be flying Terminators. You heard it here first, kids).

[Tanhausen]

Reading Octavulg... this image just came to my mind:

 

Imagine DW terminators being able to teleport (similar to Gate of Infinity) in the middle of the game!

 

... B) ...

 

That combined with my theory of an IC that allows to DS and assault... gameplan would be something like:

 

Turn 1: DWA, I munch up your Heavy Support either with flamers and claws for infantry or Chainfists for armour.

 

Turn 2: I teleport say 2D6 inches and are allowed to assault after that.

 

If those 2 rules were included and Belial kept as is (yes, don't need eternal warrior o better stats) making terminators scoring...

 

Man, wouldn't that be SWEET.

 

Can you hear the other codex whimpering? :)

 

Anyhow, that's just a fools dream :(

[lhavoc]

Just some Tweaks would be nice.

 

I for one, like the Idea that our plasma weapons don't get hot. While BA would be the melta army it is now, we would be the Plasma shooty army!

 

Or even allow Ravenwing Support Squadrons to take all thier skimmers as one type. 5 Typhoon Missile Launchers anyone? Or how about 5 assault cannons and multi melta and deep strike?