Yes its proven , Ulrik works with long fangs XD

[whitewolfmxc]

Its been brought up before but since a lot of people argue the term attacks is only in CC , but the recent FAQ of chaos demons overthrow that

 

Q. When Epidemius’ tally reaches 20+ casualties

the rules say that ‘All attacks from followers of

Nurgle ignore armor saves’. Was this intended

to affect both ranged and close combat attacks

by the followers of Nurgle, as the text seems

to indicate?

 

A. Yes, that is indeed the case. Both ranged and

close combat attacks.

 

So yeah , hate to say this , but TOLD YOU SO

 

So ulrik with long fangs = yummy dead MCs or plague marines

 

PS: Epidemius is broken as........think havoc squads with nurgle mark with missile launchers shooting frag blasts that ignore armor saves.........

[SeanyPrawny]

Awesome! Now to buy a new Ulrik, had to cut off his head for a conversion since he semed useless to me, (for my tactics) good find.

[Stormbrow II]

PS: Epidemius is broken as........think havoc squads with nurgle mark with missile launchers shooting frag blasts that ignore armor saves.........

They can't be used in the same army unless you are allowing allies. Most games don't. I don't see the problem there.

 

I'm assuming that if it does apply to Ulrik it'll also apply to a much better regular Wolf Priest too?

[Bulweih]

Dear brother,

what I wonder is, where exactly does it say that the FAQ of the chaos deamons can be used for Ulrik.

Because simply stating it does, is no proof whatsoever. They don't do much with common sense you know.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the idea of putting Ulrik to good use, he deserves no less.

But I can hear our adversaries already complaining that it's not working, because it's two totally different codices.

So please enlighten me, Ale's on me.

[Wispy]

I don't think this is all that clear, whitewolfmxc. The GW response for this responds to the rule in away that addresses the nurgle rule specifically, and not the general use of language they use. If the GW response was, "Yes, a ranged attack and a close combat attack are the same thing" I would agree.

 

The debate will rage on for this one.

 

 

 

Bulweih, if you are unsure how a rule works and there is no FAQ for it, though another codex's FAQ has a ruling for a very similar rule, you can refer to that outside FAQ as precedent for how the rule-in-question actually works. This is simple common sense, as GW is saying "this is how it works." For example, the Space Wolves faq used to say Ragnar was allowed to Furious Charge when he counter attacked. IG players instantly started doing this with Straken, as he also granted Furious Charge and Counter Attack. And you know what? The IG players were right to do that, because that's how GW said Furious Charge and Counter Attack worked together.

 

Thankfully, the faq was promptly updated to remove this language and the crazyness the IG players were introducing.

[Ullr Direfang]

sadly, as has also been said, that is for chaos deamons, not space wolves and you can't use one FAQ for a different army.

[stinkenheim]

The thing is Ulriks rule doesn't state that 'any attacks against XXX get re-rolls.'

Rather it states that any time you 'allocate and attack against a model with t5 you get re-rolls.'

The only time you ever allocate atatcks is in the combat phase, from shooting you target a unit and then the opposing player allocates wounds. Two completely different things.

 

Rather than rehashing the arguements here there are a few threads from a while back you could look at for both sides and then feel free to make up your own mind.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...&hl=slayers

 

On a side note, no one likes gloating, and i dont remember those of us saying that JOWW needed LOS gloating like this ;)

 

+EDIT+ here was my original post in response to that thread. I still stand by this opinion.

 

'Slayers Oath; ....When Ulrik and any model in the squad he has joined allocate their attacks against a model with a Toughness of 5 or more, they may re-roll all failed rolls To Hit and To Wound'

 

'Saga of the beastslayer; ...The character may re-roll failed To Hit rolls against walkers, MC, and models with a Toughness of 5 or more'

 

The two rules whilst having similar ingame effects also describe when the re-rolls apply differently. SotB states it is simply to hit rolls against those listed. Ulriks SO specifies that the bonus only applies when models 'allocate attacks' against things with T5+.

With shooting no attacks are allocated as such, rather a target unit is picked and wounds are rolled for against the majority T and then the owning player allocates wounds.

It could be more successfuly argued when talking about shooting at MC that are on their own, but against units, even those comprising entirely of T5 models YOU do not allocate attacks, the owning player allocates wounds. May be semantics but hey, its the way the rules are written.

 

I personally feel that the rule should only be used in combat, and t try and use it in a squad of long fangs is not within the spirit of the rules, or the army. Might just be me but thats how i see it.

 

As a further point, it is also worth noting that from shooting you target units, in close combat you allocate against models. The rules for SO specifically refer to models, not units.

[Niiai]

My interpetation on this subject is the same as with stinkenheim I am afraid. If you want some bang for your bucn then use him in an irpon priest squad. :D

[TiguriusX]

The latest INATA FAQ is the source for this ruling

 

Among other things for SW

-RA does not count as PA for purposes of Saga of Hunter

-IC can outflank with scouts but they can't use OBEL

-Servitors do not mindlock if IP is killed

-Saga of Wolfkin benefit remains even if model with the saga is killed

-Jaws can't be used on friendly model

-Jaws can't target someone in assault (no more TH combos)

 

Thats about all I can remember off the top of my head

[Grimtooth]

Its been brought up before but since a lot of people argue the term attacks is only in CC , but the recent FAQ of chaos demons overthrow that

 

Q. When Epidemius’ tally reaches 20+ casualties

the rules say that ‘All attacks from followers of

Nurgle ignore armor saves’. Was this intended

to affect both ranged and close combat attacks

by the followers of Nurgle, as the text seems

to indicate?

 

A. Yes, that is indeed the case. Both ranged and

close combat attacks.

 

So yeah , hate to say this , but TOLD YOU SO

 

So ulrik with long fangs = yummy dead MCs or plague marines

 

PS: Epidemius is broken as........think havoc squads with nurgle mark with missile launchers shooting frag blasts that ignore armor saves.........

 

Congrats! Next time you're playing Ulrik IN your Nurgle daemon army list, go to town. Oh wait.......

[MylesTheTroll]

I'm not seeing how this would work in the first place EVEN if you were playing a team game and allowed combining army specific powers like using Stormcaller on an ally. The rules states that you specifically need the Mark of Nurgle and/or some other Nurgle trait (can't remember second part). And in no way is it possible for Space Wolves to get a Nurgle trait/mark in-game. (barring some absurd fluff)

 

Troll

[TiguriusX]

I'm not seeing how this would work in the first place EVEN if you were playing a team game and allowed combining army specific powers like using Stormcaller on an ally. The rules states that you specifically need the Mark of Nurgle and/or some other Nurgle trait (can't remember second part). And in no way is it possible for Space Wolves to get a Nurgle trait/mark in-game. (barring some absurd fluff)

 

Troll

 

He isn't trying to combine Ulrik with Nurgle...

 

He is using that ruling as precedent for Ulriks special rule-Slayer's Oath

 

The key language is "allocate their attacks" and whether it is limited to CC or includes ranged

 

He is arguing Nurgle FAQ in favor of in Ulrik's rule including ranged attacks

[Blarmb]

Why would you want to? For the price of Ulrik you can just buy another Long Fangs pack. Double the number of models and weapons is better than being able to re-roll vs T5 anyway. Even if you're full up on a long fangs, you can buy two Land Speeder /w missiles. 4 Launchers is still a better deal than Twin-Linking 5.

[saphius]

Why would you want to? For the price of Ulrik you can just buy another Long Fangs pack. Double the number of models and weapons is better than being able to re-roll vs T5 anyway. Even if you're full up on a long fangs, you can buy two Land Speeder /w missiles. 4 Launchers is still a better deal than Twin-Linking 5.

 

You win.

[VorpalDoom]

The latest INATA FAQ is the source for this ruling

 

Among other things for SW

-RA does not count as PA for purposes of Saga of Hunter

-IC can outflank with scouts but they can't use OBEL

-Servitors do not mindlock if IP is killed

-Saga of Wolfkin benefit remains even if model with the saga is killed

-Jaws can't be used on friendly model

-Jaws can't target someone in assault (no more TH combos)

 

Thats about all I can remember off the top of my head

 

 

1. Obviously. The rules are extremely clear about this. Hardly needs mentioning.

2. Space Wolf scouts do not have the option to outflank normally. So, if the IC can't use OBEL, then he cannot out flank with the scouts.

3. There is no mindlock rule, nor is there an independant character in the unit. Similarly, does not need mentioning.

4. The rule makes no mention of it ceasing to work. Again... does not need mentioning. Taking the ability modifies stat lines.

5. It's first hit model cannot be a friendly model, anything after that is fair game.

6. It's considered a shooting attack, and according to the official FAQ, you must target a model, whilst following all normal target acquisition rules...

 

I hardly see the point of mentioning any of those, the rules are clear in regards to what you posted.

 

 

 

 

As for being on topic.

 

Do you allocate ranged attacks? No, you do not. Thus, Ulrik's ability would simply not work with ranged attacks. The rules are extremely clear about this.

[Mar Bloodaxe]

Its been brought up before but since a lot of people argue the term attacks is only in CC , but the recent FAQ of chaos demons overthrow that

 

Q. When Epidemius’ tally reaches 20+ casualties

the rules say that ‘All attacks from followers of

Nurgle ignore armor saves’. Was this intended

to affect both ranged and close combat attacks

by the followers of Nurgle, as the text seems

to indicate?

 

A. Yes, that is indeed the case. Both ranged and

close combat attacks.

 

So yeah , hate to say this , but TOLD YOU SO

 

So ulrik with long fangs = yummy dead MCs or plague marines

 

PS: Epidemius is broken as........think havoc squads with nurgle mark with missile launchers shooting frag blasts that ignore armor saves.........

 

Nice try there bud. Still not convinced and this is going to go around in circles. I feel a mod lock coming...Also I didn't know another armies FAQ can be used for SW. Oh right it can't. It says Codex Chaos Daemons not Codex Space Wolves. It's not like it's really powerful anyway like say Logan and a unit of LF in a pod.

[Tograth]

Since when has the INAT faq been anything but a really obtuse set of rules rewriting that is almost never used? especially since most of those answers are wrong.

 

runic armour: ref Codex:SW page 61:

"these suits of power armour, ancient beyond reckoning, are further enhanced with runes of protection that bear the blessings of the Rune Priests"

 

thats a direct quote from the codex. RA = PA with extra benefits.

 

 

OBEL:

IC with saga of the hunter can outflank, as supported by the official GW FAQ. They can also join wolf scouts outflanking. Simple process - they outflank together. When they come back on, the character is part of the wolf scout *unit*, therefore, the special rule of the wolf scouts which specify that the wolf scout *unit* uses the OBEL table works. if you disagree that once a character joins a unit they are not part of the unit, please check the BRB in the relevant section.

 

OBEL doesnt prevent them from outflanking at all. They can still both outflank, either separately or together. when they come back onto the table is when OBEL is invoked.

 

agree about the servitors - no mindlock rule is in evidence, nor has it been eratta'd to include one, so no, no mindlocking occurs.

 

 

Saga of the wolfkin: this works like Vulkans ability. Once he has been bought, his benefit remains even if he dies. Same as with the saga.

 

 

Jaws cannot target friendly models *at all*. nothing in the power description specifically states that it can. Neither can it target into combat, for the same reason. Other than that, the *only* restriction is that the first target it hits must be in LOS.

 

 

 

 

TBH, INAT is a piece of crap. Half the time they get it completely wrong, both from prior precedence and even from direct reading of the codexes. The rest of the time they fabricate rules out of whole cloth or change the rules so radically that they bear little to no resemblance to reality.

[Hymirl]

TBH, INAT is a piece of crap. Half the time they get it completely wrong, both from prior precedence and even from direct reading of the codexes. The rest of the time they fabricate rules out of whole cloth or change the rules so radically that they bear little to no resemblance to reality.

 

Agreed, its a poorly made fan-FAQ that actually has far less circulation in practice than it thinks it has. Like all house rules used by event organisers is means nothing at all once its outside of that person's house... um, event.

 

To the point at hand, I agree that theres no evidence that Ulrik's oath works on shooting. Personally I just wish he had the option to pick a normal oath for the occasions that there isn't a good amount of T5 stuff to pound into tiny bits.

[Hotspur]

Like others here, I don't see how a Chaos FAQ applies to our beloved Ulrik. To even suggest that a Chaos FAQ be used on one of our ICs is heresy! Now, maybe if we were talking DA...

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Like others here, I don't see how a Chaos FAQ applies to our beloved Ulrik. To even suggest that a Chaos FAQ be used on one of our ICs is heresy! Now, maybe if we were talking DA...

You mean there is a Difference between Chaos and Dark Angels? now I am confused.

[JaegerAD]

You mean there is a Difference between Chaos and Dark Angels? now I am confused.

 

Nope both are victims :P

[whitewolfmxc]

Its been brought up before but since a lot of people argue the term attacks is only in CC , but the recent FAQ of chaos demons overthrow that

 

Q. When Epidemius’ tally reaches 20+ casualties

the rules say that ‘All attacks from followers of

Nurgle ignore armor saves’. Was this intended

to affect both ranged and close combat attacks

by the followers of Nurgle, as the text seems

to indicate?

 

A. Yes, that is indeed the case. Both ranged and

close combat attacks.

 

So yeah , hate to say this , but TOLD YOU SO

 

So ulrik with long fangs = yummy dead MCs or plague marines

 

PS: Epidemius is broken as........think havoc squads with nurgle mark with missile launchers shooting frag blasts that ignore armor saves.........

 

Nice try there bud. Still not convinced and this is going to go around in circles. I feel a mod lock coming...Also I didn't know another armies FAQ can be used for SW. Oh right it can't. It says Codex Chaos Daemons not Codex Space Wolves. It's not like it's really powerful anyway like say Logan and a unit of LF in a pod.

 

Did people try to use that statement when Imperial guard used counter attack with furious charge when SW actually had that in FAQ ? Guess what ? it Forced GW to change the FAQ cause people were using it and instead of saying you cant use an FAQ of another army to work with your army , they simply changed the SW FAQ

 

im just saying..........

 

(Any way , its right that adding urilk to LF is a waste of time most of the time , but i was just trying to say in the original thread that its not absolute when the BRB says applies to all nor does it mean we interpret it right )

[stinkenheim]

This honestly has little to do with which codex the FQ belongs to, as if the abilities were worded in the same manner then it would be a good precedence to use when basing our arguements on.

However Ulrik's special rule does not say 'Ulrik and any unit he has joined gain re-rolls to hit and wound on any attacks made against models with T5 or higher.'

Rather Slayers Oath says 'When Ulrik and any model in the squad he has joined allocate their attacks against a model with a Toughness of 5 or more, they may re-roll all failed rolls To Hit and To Wound'

 

That, whilst seemingly similar, is completely different. It basically comes down to when you allocate attacks. As has been said before both on this thread and others, the only time you allocate attacks against models is in the close combat phase. During the shooting phase you target a unit and then the opposing player allocates wounds amongst that unit.

 

As a side note, I would have no problem allowing my opponent to use other FAQs as the basis of how certain rules interact. In the example you gave with regards to Straken and FC/CA, I saw no reason to disallow another army the benefits of both USRs.

 

As for the INATFAQ, regardless of its origins, writers or the tournaments it is used in it has exactly the same impact as a GW FAQ. It is a list of house rules, little more. It is down to the players/groups/gaming clubs to decide which if any they use during their games.

[whitewolfmxc]

Ok i agree with stinkenheim on this lol

 

but then again my statement still stands as how "attacks" is no longer just used for CC it can be also in shooting , at least in the eyes of the GW FAQ team (and in which i still think that demon ability is totally BS for being overpowered....)